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Ratsmc
| | Posted on Saturday, February 06, 2010 - 02:02 am: | 
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Okay, second time in two days. Those of you wanting different wheels, do you actually understand the design of the wheel and perimeter brake? |
Johnnys999
| | Posted on Saturday, February 06, 2010 - 03:43 am: |
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I've read enough to understand the basics of the design and like myself,there are plenty of others out there that don't agree the single rotor brake system is better. This thread was about wheels, I can't talk wheels because the Buell brakes prevents that. Your restricted to what came with the bike and disallowed from having lighter and better looking wheels. In the past I've had Marvic Magnesiums, Marchesinis and currently have forged light weight aluminum Marchesinis on another sportbike I own. I even looked into BST carbon fiber wheels for the Buell and that was a no go because of that damned front wheel. Rumor has it BST looked into making something for Buell, but dropped the project. I would guess trying to attach that rotor onto the carbon wheel required more than what the market could give back.
My goal is to increase overall performance and appearance by upgrading to light weight wheels and brakes rather than be held hostage by brakes that I don't think perform any better and in many cases worst than whats available. Maybe they are a little lighter than stock systems, but I would rather have dual rotor/calipers because this allows flexibility in both brake system and wheel upgrades. I hear more negative talk than positive in regards to the single rotor product and in one comparison test against an Aprilia, the evaluators slammed the single rotor brake as inferior to the Brembo/Ohlins set up.
The point is I'm stuck with the fugly stock wheels, so like it or not thats reality.
This is why I don't like the single rotor/caliper design.
(Message edited by JohnnyS999 on February 06, 2010) |
Phelan
| | Posted on Saturday, February 06, 2010 - 06:36 am: |
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As others have stated, there are options. You can easily fit a Marchesini onto the rear. As for the front though, no doubt about it. If you get anything with dual discs, reagardless of the wheel (unless carbon fiber), it WILL weigh more and WILL adversely affect handling. It may stop 10% better but it won't handle as well. EB wasn't stupid. He considered the 10% to be an equal trade-off for the LBS of weight removed off the front. The standard aluminum from wheel is phenomoly light and the Mag wheel from EBR is even lighter. Change to a Brembo front M/C and EBR rotor if you want better brakes. You won't kill your handling advancements that way. |
Froggy
| | Posted on Saturday, February 06, 2010 - 10:53 am: |
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quote:Your restricted to what came with the bike and disallowed from having lighter and better looking wheels.
That is simply not true. If you want lighter, you can get magnesium wheels from EBR. The new Barracuda 2 had a totally different front wheel, so there is a possibility that will become available in the future too.
If you desire, you can even go aftermarket wheels with dual ZTL, although my guess is that it would weigh more than a traditional dual disk setup.
The feel of the ZTL systems is mostly from the brake pads, swapping them out to various pads can get you whatever feel you need. The braking capacity of the ZTL brake is a little less than a traditional 2 disk setup, but this is because it hasn't been refined as much. Traditionally mounted rotors have been around for decades, everyone knows how they worked, and everyone knows how to make them better. ZTL debuted about 8 years ago, and is on its second generation. The 3rd generation was in the works, to make them even better.
If they didn't work good, then I don't think Danny Eslick and the others would of been able to do so well in the various AMA racing series. |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Saturday, February 06, 2010 - 11:13 am: |
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Additionally, there is a "feel" issue with the master cylinder. The Buell brake lever continues to flex after you have pulled the break in all the way. The upgraded seals are supposed to fix this.
Replace the pads and seals and they have magnificent feel.
If you don't like the ZTL or feel it isn't up to par, swap out your forks for a traditional set up. Trojan did for their race bike with great success. Then you can have any wheel available on the market. Probably would be cheaper than trying to find an aftermarket wheel with a ZTL rotor set up.
I like the look, performance, and execution of the ZTL. Others don't. Change what you don't like or buy a different bike.
It ain't that hard. |
Mountainstorm
| | Posted on Saturday, February 06, 2010 - 01:48 pm: |
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Hey Froggy what is the story on that bike in the pic? It looks amazing. Is that an RC51 tailpiece? |
Froggy
| | Posted on Saturday, February 06, 2010 - 02:00 pm: |
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http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/327 77/363195.html?1212116648 |
Illbuell
| | Posted on Saturday, February 06, 2010 - 04:50 pm: |
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Thats so bad azz.. i would like to see that done to a CR.. Maybe Ill do that to my CR... |
What_the
| | Posted on Saturday, February 06, 2010 - 05:14 pm: |
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PVM will make you a forged ZTL Mg front. Bring your wallet, but it's a beautiful piece. |
Illbuell
| | Posted on Saturday, February 06, 2010 - 05:28 pm: |
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yes they will
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Ratsmc
| | Posted on Saturday, February 06, 2010 - 06:15 pm: |
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Johnnys999, perimeter caliper design has nothing to do with what is available on the market. The reason there aren't as many option is wheel (or any other parts for that matter) is because there just aren't that many Buells on the road.
The reason for my question was that your your own question seemed to belie a perception that the front wheel was heavy and you wanted something lighter. My point was that you already have a really light front wheel because it has far less structural material than a normal 2-disc wheel.
If you want something that looks different, that is a totally different issue and one based on the market rather than the design. |
Johnnys999
| | Posted on Saturday, February 06, 2010 - 06:47 pm: |
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Now those PVMs are what I'm talking about. Thats precisely my point and when Ft bstrd said "change what you don't like or buy a different bike" that to me is a last resort resolution because I really like all of the bike except for the wheel option issue. I've also done enough research to know brake feel and performance can be improved without killing your wallet. I didn't want to get into a pissing contest with others who take what I'm saying as an attack on the Buell in general. The single rotor concept is like anything else, its subject to scrutiny and interpretations. I go by the belief of "show me" and if someone does I don't have a problem converting because ultimately I'm looking for a better product. However, in this case I would like to improve the appearance first, the performance gains (if any) would be a bonus. This problem isn't insurmountable but at the same time I don't have deep pockets now that I'm semi retired. Just making my monthly health insurance premiums is a chore. Like many average Joes I'm looking for the best bang for the buck, if there is such a thing for what I'm proposing.
I would love to see that wheel from PVM and I have no doubt what you say that its expensive. Not that long ago I ordered a pair of PVM forged aluminum 20 spokes for my 916, they were around $2K. About a month later I canceled it due to their inability to deliver the product. I settled with forged aluminum Marchesinis and I was happy with that. The point is I had options that are now unavailable with the Buell.
The swapping out of the forks might be a viable idea proposed by Ft bstrd. Its all in what fits the triples or what triples will fit the bike. I truly believe the bike would handle like nobodies business with an Ohlins fork conversion backed up with Brembo radial m/c and the right pads and light rotors. I'm pretty much biased for Ohlins since 5 out of my last 7 bikes were Ohlins and the one thing that stands out with them is adjustability range and the feel that I can only describe as "plush" This element is missing with the Buell. |
Family_buells
| | Posted on Saturday, February 06, 2010 - 10:29 pm: |
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Actually I mentioned the fork swap pretty early in the thread (not that I care all that much).
Talking about plushness in a fork is a comfort issue, not a handling trait. I've never heard of a racer saying they lost a race because the fork wasn't plush enough. If you're talking riding on the street, then all of these modifications are a very low payoff as far as what you can actually exploit on the street. It's just expensive eye candy, not that I'm against that sort of thing. |
Illbuell
| | Posted on Sunday, February 07, 2010 - 12:08 am: |
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My quote of the day.." Riding a 1125 on the street is like hunting rabbit with an apache helicopter" end quote.. By Wayne Strickland...LOL |
Froggy
| | Posted on Sunday, February 07, 2010 - 12:23 am: |
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Thank you for my new Facebook status.
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Jdugger
| | Posted on Sunday, February 07, 2010 - 07:56 am: |
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Fly swatting with nukes... |
Mountainstorm
| | Posted on Sunday, February 07, 2010 - 09:21 am: |
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Popping a zit with ViceGrips...
Planting Potatoes with C4?
Shearing sheep with a wood chipper?
It all sounds messy...but I like it. |
Illbuell
| | Posted on Sunday, February 07, 2010 - 09:58 am: |
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Funny but, true..
Your welcome Froggy
(Message edited by illbuell on February 07, 2010) |
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