| Author | Message | ||
     Blackflash |
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| Justa4banger |
Nice.... tassels... it adds character. and yea, with all that clearance the bike looks like it needs to be lowered... or add some dirt tires lol | ||
| Blackflash |
The reason for making a merge over buying a formed merge has better properties for creating hp. 12 & 15 degree convergent angles offer the greatest performance gains. 20 & 25 degree convergent angles are used where space constraints are the primary concern < which is your typical formed merge. There not made for flow. Its like a bulkhead if you ask me. | ||
| Blower1 |
Here is pic from F1 car exhaust. Itīs made only for the best performance (flowing bad?).  | ||
| Blackflash |
The information above was provided by a manufacture that supplies these merges and custom makes them as well.They know best. | ||
| Zac4mac |
That's a good looking setup you're making Blackflash. Fits very nicely, no doubt it will be louder than my Drummer tho. I have a hard time swallowing white-paper info from a manufacturer. Benjamin Disraeli said - Lies, Damn lies and Statistics... Here's a phone pic of Loretta - First dyno at 700 miles(blue), all stock, M3HUS03Z flash. Second run(red) is a few months ago, M3HUS05Z modified, K&N and Drummer, 22k miles, similar weather.  Zack | ||
| Blackflash |
I feel the same way zac. That's why I am taking matters in my own hands and trying things. I felt like my jardine lost power. I also believe more than one dyno should be used.Did you have the tq ratings and a rpm based map available? I really enjoy looking over dyno sheets. The only problem with them is they only produce 1 load . It doesn't tell you much at 40-90 % throttle just wot . But we all know that. There's way more to the picture other than a wot pull. 1,23,4, 6 gears produce way different loads. I believe the drummer is effective and a nice piece. I don't think 1000.00 is a just price. The materials can't cost but 300.00. | ||
| Captain_america |
You guys need an Eddy brake dyno, like a mustang dyno, which puts any load you want on the vehicle. Steady state, grades, WOT,... I dunno if they have them for bikes or not, but my buddy has a mustang 250 that you can run a bike on. I plan on heading over there soon with mine. I just don't have the time at the moment. | ||
| Zac4mac |
I'd love to have access to a brake dyno, but I don't. Just an old Dyno-jet. I'm thinking of mounting a Tour Pak on a spare pillion seat I have.  If I do, I'll run data-logging on the lappy. That with a pair of wide-bands seems to be "the ticket." Z | ||
| Blackflash |
Just wait a couple months there's something in development now that will turn heads and do it all zac | ||
| Blackflash |
The dyno I ran had a brake so I will use it. Well the test ride felt better than the last setup.It was more crisp down low.The sound changed slightly as I thought It would by adding a longer set of primaries .I also believe the bottom end showed on the cruise aspect.I notice it jumped harder in second gear causing wheelies at 5 k no problems. Even with a full tank.As far as topend is comncerned I dont know if the lengthend primaries will hurt it .But the dyno will tell that tale.The note of the pipe I believe sounded better at 3-7 k  | ||
| Justa4banger |
in reality it doesn;t matter what dyno you use, as long as you use the SAME dyno repeatedly for all your testing... On my mustang i did over 30 dyno runs in a month and a half... i was testing different cams for a guy... some of the cams made noticable difference, but the top end felt stronger.. come to find out on the dyno it would pick up like 20hp but lose trq down low. another cam i tested felt like a freaking beast, but it netter 30 hp less peak... the kicker was it made 35ft lbs more trq down low and made it 400 rpm sooner... using different dynos of course will show different numbers, but the main thing you need to see is the change that happens on the SAME dyno.. Now once devolpment is done and you want to market your stuff you need to find a dyno that reads the most gracious.... that will give you those selling dyno numbers  Want to measure REAL performance... take it to the drag strip, and check out trap speed... that will show REAL hp gains/losses... time is too dependant on the driver, tires, etc etc... | ||
| Blackflash |
I agree with you banger on taking it to the track to check the top mph .But not in ohio right now.  I have different ideas on designs than others.But everyone is pointing at the muffler and velocity /backpressure.I believe that the muffler is half the story.I believe the other half is the design in the down pipe.This bike is so tempramental that I'll try anything to get good readings on the dyno and at the butt.Like I said before .Look at the buell down pipe design.Look at the jardine/ hmf down pipe vs the buell race pipe design .Two way different designs.Which made the most power?"The buell race pipe" It has a performance merge which creates better flow between the two primaries.I went this route with my design .But the difference between mine and the buell pipe.Is the downpipe diameter.The buell pipe is way bigger in diameter.But its way bigger in diameter all the way up to the head .So a set of slip on tubes at 2.0. I think would hurt a slipon style with the stock 1.75 headers.So thats why Ill try 1.75 or 1.875 tube.No use of making a big down pipe if its choked already at the exhaust port on the head.Thats why I was using the stock downpipe to see if I was thinking correctly and to comfirm if my theory was right.The stock downpipe produced stock hp results and a little more low end tq.Like I said I try think outside the box.And I believe theres more just throwing some tubes on the primaries and throwing a muffler on it then say she's good to go.WooWhoo!I dont want to create a full race pipe as we all know that the buell pipe is a loud air pumping machine and requires drastic pc programming to correct the Air Fuel Values.The pipe that I would like to create is one that is safe pipe for the bike while producing good numbers and create safe air fuel ratios within reason.And one that a full fairing will have no issues mounting to. (Message edited by blackflash on January 23, 2010) | ||
| Blackflash |
Here is some pics of a true merge that is a performance style not a formed merge that is made for tight confined spaces.This style would work great with two nicely bent downtubes that attach to this merge with some springs and clips like the jardines have instead of all the welds like on my prototype.  If you do use a merge that is formed its highly recommended that you use some of these to create good velocity in the merge.But by the time you weld these in you might as well buy the right merge with the right angles to create top numbers.  These are not the exact design these are for 4 tube conections but the same ideas apply .They sell then for two tubes as well You get the picture.  Maybe this will give you a closer look at what makes good velocity.Its for a v8 car but same ideas apply.this is a full race header which is 3 times the price as your convention hooker header.   Notice the gap in between the merge where the two tubes sit flush where they are welded.Theres no true merge Its just a velocity nightmare or what i call a dead head.    | ||
| Ottobotz |
Anyone got HP or Torque #'s for the FMF full Ti exhaust system? -PLZ post. I love the sound of the FMF. | ||
| Toysgarage |
hi guys ,dont means to offend anyone in any way with this comment, but i think we all spend too much time worrying about how the exhaust works . any exhaust regardless of how good it looks or flows needs a FULL tune to find out its true capabilities to me i think the tune down low is very important in the outcome of the hp reading up top what im trying to say is ,if you get the tune right at light load (cruise) down low ,i think you should definitly get more power up top and most importantly a more smoother reliable ride. by the way how much are those fully programable ECUs on the market ? | ||
| Justa4banger |
Toys your right... any change needs a tune. different exhaust also change the characteristics of the engine though... some are more peaky others make more trq down low... then of course there's the exhaust note... for me thats important... this all comes into play..this is all devolped by how the exhaust works.. | ||
| Blackflash |
When I hop on the dyno again I will post 3500 to 4000 rpm afvs in 4th gear to see where I'm at afr wise.Then do a full blast run and then a wot pull. 70 mile ride yesterday This setup seemed to have alot more low end then the last pipe and wheelies in second are not a issue anymore.A quick stomp at 4500 causes the front end to jump very hard and rides wheelies all the way to 90 some mph.I gotta get this thing on a dyno. I tried two different routes so far this one has the most drastic changes so far. | ||
| Zac4mac |
Stupid question, but what gear are y'all running on the dyno? I noticed mine were low and realized Dan was running in 4th and seeing 120-121. Decided to run in 5th as it's closest to 1:1. Now that I look again, 6th is 2 thou closer. Couldn't do the runs in 6th, tire spun the drum too fast. Z | ||
| Blackflash |
Ive been doing 5th gear pulls. | ||
| Blackflash |
I have a db meter App on my Iphone I will post the db ratings soon. | ||
| Duphuckincati |
Hey Backflash, off topic but that big picture of your bike, what wax or whatever do you use??!! Gloss-freakin-y! | ||
| Blackflash |
Thats user mike1125r bike pm him.I use wax to get the plastic to shine and some detailer spray. | ||
| Toysgarage |
Hi,Banger Don't get me wrong,exhaust is important for everything it's does. But I think money should also be spent on getting the bike running properly.. i modify cars for a living and noticed that people spend good money on a pretty exhaust but when it comes to the tune, they start taking shortcuts and go for the cheapest option Exhaust are easy to make , but requires alot of time to perfect. keep it up blacklash!! you"ll get there. | ||
| Buellishness |
that looks great lets get that thing on a dyno!! | ||
| Blackflash |
Toys I hate to say it but your wrong on the pipe part.Furthermore I'll push the subject. A set of hooker long tube header that cost 350$ & will produce power.aA good set of headers will cost 1000.00. What's the difference usually. The collectors on the headers are true merge style which equalizes the exhaust flow better and keeps velocity.Look at the pictures above. It's been proven .A good exhaust and a tune make good power .I'll post some stuff tommorrow that will better explain how important merges are. It has everything to do with low end torque,high rpm hp, scavenging, backpressure and other stuff. | ||
| Captain_america |
Both A Correct Exhaust And A Correct Tune Go Hand-In-Hand... One Will Not Work Without The Other, Sure You Can Cut Corners But The End Result Will Not Be Optimal Or It Could Even Be Hurtful Towards The Performance And The Life Of The Engine. I Would Say You Could Cut A Corner On An Exhaust And Just Loose Performance But You Could Hurt The Motor With A "Cheap" Tune. I Personally Wont Change The Intake Or Exhaust Until I Am Absolutely Sure That AFR's Stay Safe Or I Can Get A Legit Tune Done To Fix A Possible Lean Condition. | ||
| Blackflash |
Well back to the dyno tomorrow if he has the time.If theres no snow he said okay.He does snow removal.If not the 27th | ||
| Redscuell |
"Here's a phone pic of Loretta - First dyno at 700 miles(blue), all stock, M3HUS03Z flash. Second run(red) is a few months ago, M3HUS05Z modified, K&N and Drummer, 22k miles, similar weather. " Sorry, Zac, but those results are just sad, with or without a Drummer. Some have done better with less. | ||
| Blackflash |
14 hrs to go. |
