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Thefleshrocket
| | Posted on Thursday, January 28, 2010 - 10:00 pm: | 
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I have to wonder how many people will continue to spend $350 or so on the tune from that guy in Ohio ($300 software plus $50 cable) when a hundred bucks less buys you something you can actually hold in your hand and was designed by the factory. The chance of me spending $350 for a mail-order tune was extremely slim BEFORE the $250 ECM became available, and now it's completely zilch. |
Blackflash
| | Posted on Thursday, January 28, 2010 - 11:09 pm: |
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There is still advantages with old beaver tune over the ebr ECM ." adjustability"To get that you have to pay 750.00 . To me I'd still rather have the beaver software,tune, quick fetch and burn, adjustability of afv to get it tweaked,support for what under half the price. You ain't gonna call Erik up and say my ecu isn't making power and get help to get it figured out. Dave has a tuneing forum for this and good support. These bikes are different from one to the other. It's been proven. Fueling on these bikes varys. You need adjustment. Unless you fork over 750$ you won't get right. If you just buy the race ECM There will be some that will be lucky and get full power ou of it. Some that won't hit peak potential. So as far as $ to $ . Fleshrocket your not looking at the big picture.
I hope that this clears up your last post.as far as holding something in your hand . If your worried about that . It comes with a cd , the key,and yes you can sell it. It's locked to your pc when you upload it to your bike. When you download it to the key it's unlocked. So the cd and key work together. I know that it can be unlocked and resold. So there it is you can hold the cd and key in your hand fleshrocket. There's so much people don't know and speculate. It's a good value . There's nothing on the market that comes close for value and what you get. Plus there's no swapping anything out.Sorry if anyone is offended. Once again I'm stating factual information. If it burst peoples bubbles I'm sorry. Facts not speculation!!
(Message edited by Blackflash on January 28, 2010) |
Mikellyjo
| | Posted on Thursday, January 28, 2010 - 11:53 pm: |
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Black, your wisdom on the subject only lends itself to confusion. I mean no personal attack on your credibility. But for those that don't need all that adjust-ability are you saying that the ECM from EBR that is tuned to a specific set up won't work? As it was mentioned early in this thread, it has to be better than the plug in "fuel cards" for the same price. Better than the "beaver" tune...I can't answer that. I am not an elf worshiper, I hate the packers and only one man I know has actually walked on water and it's not Erik Buell. But I think we have to give the man that created the bike some respect. If he says "tell me what you have on your bike and we will program the ECM for that," than I think I'll take his word for it. Will it solve the specific fueling issues that each bike is born with? No. But that's not what a good many of us are looking for. Many of us are happy the ECM flashes solved the surging. We want an exhaust more for looks rather than performance gains, and we pulled the inner air box out because it sounds nasty, but don't have the desire, time, or need to chase the fuel and AF values up and down the power curve.
So class what have we learned. Well it seams that everybody but Erik Buell knows how to build a better mouse trap. And if we dare to use the cheese that comes from the factory we won't kill any mice. I'm not a Racer, I don't stunt, but I turn a wrench when I have to and ride for the enjoyment of life. I do appreciate the factory that gave us the chance to use their mouse trap. And if using their cheese means I don't have to milk the cow to get it, than good for me and bad for the mouse.
How this post went from motorcycles to mice I don't know...
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Duggram
| | Posted on Friday, January 29, 2010 - 07:01 am: |
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Black, this is the first time I've heard of the race ECM locking itself to a PC. Does this mean that I can't use a different PC with my current race ECM? What if I replace the hard drive in my PC and reinstall Windows, will I still be able to use that PC with my current race ECM? |
Justa4banger
| | Posted on Friday, January 29, 2010 - 08:03 am: |
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Duggram i believe BF is talking about the O.S.B.... tune not the race ecm..
Wow , some good reading here.. lol |
Blackflash
| | Posted on Friday, January 29, 2010 - 08:32 am: |
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It locks itself to the ECM in your bike so you can't flash another with the same tune. It's like its in your hand them you put it in your bike. Now you can't flash another bike because it's in your bike .I believe you can pull it out then have the cd and key. Which is a external USB card. What I was also getting about the race ECM might not work for others. It's a fact that these tunes you get from the beaver site have worked and have need more tweaking to get it right . Some use the 102 107 stock pfu some have went up to 115 120 afv . Because the fueling on these bikes vary . Conditions/ altitude & more.So a burnt ECM might not work from Erik might not work for some . Is it speed density and have afv adjustment . Or if you don't hook your 02s from what I've been told it runs a alpha n based map? can someone clear this up.You'll never know because you don't have any tuning software it's 500$.maybe I pm all the question in this thread and get it from the horse. The value is better with the beaver tune. IMHO adjustability is everything with these bikes . The fueling differs from one to the other so much you need adjustability. Example. I rode from Ohio to the smokey mountains. When I was there my afv were at 90 f & 90 rear stock ecu . So what works in Ohio won't work in north carlolina. As I came back it went back to 100 100. I couldn't belive my eyes. Taking 10%. Out is alot. 1 afr point almost equals =.2% of a afr when on the dyno I've found . So that's alot!! |
Mountainstorm
| | Posted on Friday, January 29, 2010 - 08:42 am: |
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Buell Experts correct me if I am wrong but the Adaptive Fuel Ratio you can access in the Diagnostic Mode on the Gauge Cluster is not related to the Air Fuel Value measured on a Dyno in direct correlation. It's just a metric that indicates whether the ECM is adding or taking fuel from a cylinder to compensate between the set maps and the variables of riding as registered and relayed by the sensors. |
Torquaholic
| | Posted on Friday, January 29, 2010 - 09:21 am: |
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Mountainstorm,
The AFV (adaptive fuel value) in seen in the diagnostic mode is a representation of how the ECM adjusts fueling in each cylinder to maintain stoichiometry, with 100/100 being the base setting. any increase in the number means fuel is being added to that cylinder, the reverse is true for a decrease in the number.
I have read elsewhere that every unit of the AFV roughly equates to a 0.2 change in the AFR (air/fuel ratio) seen with a wideband 02.
I don't claim to be a Buell expert, but I hope that answers your question. |
Mountainstorm
| | Posted on Friday, January 29, 2010 - 03:10 pm: |
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It sure helps. I am still making sense of this digital age. |
Mikezx9r
| | Posted on Friday, January 29, 2010 - 06:49 pm: |
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Backflash, are you saying there is a way to use the O S B key on another bike if you decided to sell the tune? |
Mountainstorm
| | Posted on Friday, January 29, 2010 - 07:33 pm: |
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The USB key locks to the ECM. If you keep the ECM I guess so 
Hey I just installed my Race ECM from EBR and it's everything I hoped it would be. Highly recommend it: best $250 I ever spent on a motorcycle accessory. |
Duggram
| | Posted on Friday, January 29, 2010 - 07:38 pm: |
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Mtn, why do you say it's the best $ you've spent on your bike? |
Blackflash
| | Posted on Friday, January 29, 2010 - 07:50 pm: |
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Mikezx9r
It can be unlocked.
I seen a guy that sold his r and had the tune up for sale seperately.I dont know the details but the beaver guy has a forum and can support your questions. He is very punctual as well.He can even tune your bike through his pc.Customer support is everything to me.
(Message edited by blackflash on January 29, 2010) |
Mikezx9r
| | Posted on Friday, January 29, 2010 - 09:18 pm: |
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O S B told me they couldnt be re-sold. I have a PCV coming next week for my bike and a now useless $300 tune thing. |
Mountainstorm
| | Posted on Friday, January 29, 2010 - 09:38 pm: |
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BF it sounds like you want to have Old Sweaty Ball's babies or something
Erik Buell Racing has great customer service. My emails got responses within hours. They calibrated the ECM to my needs. It arrived 3 days after it shipped.
And more importantly it works. And if I need to I can plug in the OEM unit and do what I got to do. |
Blackflash
| | Posted on Friday, January 29, 2010 - 10:38 pm: |
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rich
what did they ask you when you ordered it?
Hopefully the dyno is nice 
Keep us posted |
Mikezx9r
| | Posted on Friday, January 29, 2010 - 11:06 pm: |
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O S B told me they couldnt be re-sold. I have a PCV coming next week for my bike and a now useless $300 tune thing.
When I said useless here, I meant because I plan on getting a PCV and having my bike dyno-tuned. Not that the software itself is useless. It wont be of any use to me. |
Mountainstorm
| | Posted on Saturday, January 30, 2010 - 08:38 am: |
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The day I ordered the ECM I got an email from EBR. They stated that the Plug n Play Race Use Only ECM was designed for track days and calibrated for Race Gas, Disables the O2 Sensors and would work best with a Full Race Header.
I wrote back that maybe I should cancel my order then because I am not a racer, I just want my bike to have a proper map that would adjust fueling to accomodate the Slip On, Pump Gas, K&N and the 2000 foot elevation changes I often ride through in a single day.
I got a prompt reply that they had developed some other calibrations and would need a couple of days to check them out.
Next email (the very next day) I got was the ECM had shipped.
On the Invoice handwritten at the bottom I see: Slip on, Pump Gas, K&N, O2 On.
Hope that answers any questions. Be forthcoming and let EBR know your setup and so on and they will do the rest.
DO NOT expect them to answer all your particular technical questions. I doubt they have the time to do so.
(Message edited by Mountainstorm on January 30, 2010)
(Message edited by Mountainstorm on January 30, 2010) |
Easyrider
| | Posted on Saturday, January 30, 2010 - 10:12 am: |
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I don't understand, how somebody can make 1 product that fits to all needs of every customer with a different exhaust setup.
Somebody is really busy to make all the fuel maps for all the different exhaust setups. Wow... |
Duggram
| | Posted on Saturday, January 30, 2010 - 10:27 am: |
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Mtn, thank you for the information. Later this spring I will be coming into enough resources to get major work done on my 1125 racer/track bike. It’s good to know that EBR is so responsive and appropriate. I don’t know whether to ship my motor to them or just take the bike up there (from New Mexico). I don’t want the full 1190RR treatment. I just want the best Buell club racer I can get. Whatever happens it’s good to know that they speak to the individual and meet their needs.
So, have you had a chance to ride your bike with the new ECM? Did EBR nail the map for your intended purposes? |
Mountainstorm
| | Posted on Saturday, January 30, 2010 - 10:27 am: |
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Consider the vast resources at the disposal of Buell and the Buell Racing effort (until HD shut it down). I am not surprised that Buell and what's become of the Buell Racing effort can come up with what we need. |
Zac4mac
| | Posted on Saturday, January 30, 2010 - 09:39 pm: |
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The guys that Engineered it, not rev-engineered, are selling an ECM.
Come on tax check. It will be mine.
No disrespect at all Dris, your stuff is the best, but the Buell Engineers know what it CAN do.
Things could be worse. 
Zack |
Nickg
| | Posted on Saturday, January 30, 2010 - 10:02 pm: |
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same here...i am either getting a full fmf stainless, hpe or EBR exhaust for my cr...definetly getting this ecm though |
Easyrider
| | Posted on Sunday, January 31, 2010 - 02:38 am: |
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Zack, I just want to let people see, what they buy. Unless, somebody making all the fuelmaps, for the different exhaust setup, It never worked for me to put the fuelmap for exhaust Type A, back in the race ECM, and put exhaust B on and say well that is oke.
So if they dyno all the exhaust types, then I think (Huston we have a problem). And We need to compeat on Price level, |
Mountainstorm
| | Posted on Sunday, January 31, 2010 - 08:56 am: |
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I'm looking at this from the level of a semi-informed consumer and basically the stock map is such crap (to meet emissions) that any improvement is a cause to celebrate. I am not looking for perfection, although I am not adverse to achieving it, I just approach this pragmatically. It works for me (better than the OEM cal) so I'm a happy camper. |
D_adams
| | Posted on Sunday, January 31, 2010 - 09:59 am: |
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Mountainstorm -- So, are you planning to run this on a dyno sometime soon? I'm curious to see where the a/f ratio falls and what the power increase was over a stock ecm with no tuning. Any chance of doing a back to back set of runs (stock vs race ecm) to find out? Also, what is the targeted a/f mix at cruise? If it uses the O2 sensors and will fine tune as it runs in closed loop, what got changed to allow that? That has been one of my biggest questions all along. EPA mandated target is 14.7:1 (or leaner) and this ecm does not have that restriction. If this thing shows a reasonable gain over stock, I think I'll be very interested, especially for a slipon type exhaust. |
Mountainstorm
| | Posted on Sunday, January 31, 2010 - 02:27 pm: |
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It is the plan D.
Just waiting for the weather to clear and a slot at the HD/Buell Dyno. I'm as curious as anyone but even if there is no gain the engine works better and that's what I need most. |
D_adams
| | Posted on Sunday, January 31, 2010 - 03:17 pm: |
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Well, if it feels better, thats really all that matters. I'm happy with the way my pipe turned out, so I'm happy there, now I'm looking at tuning options. Looks like this might be the "E" ticket part of the ride. |
Dsmcg
| | Posted on Sunday, January 31, 2010 - 04:57 pm: |
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****This information is double posted from Mountainstorm's EBR ECM SOTP thread***
Most dyno data represents WOT maximum power. EBR mapping addresses critical partial throttle drivability. This is not dictated by emissions requirements. When trying to stay connected to what is happening at the edge of traction, the feeling to the rider and behavior of the engine is everything.
Feel and control of traction = confidence.
There is MUCH more consideration regarding on track performance embedded in EBR's map construction.
Starting and warm-up strategies, correction tables, throttle transition character ( accell AND decell ), engine braking behavior, torque production throughout the rev range and throttle position, etc.
Building a map on a dyno is only part of the puzzle. WOT power graphs represent WOT power. Discussing power gains @ 4000 rpm at 100% throttle is irrelevant. How the engine responds @ 3% throttle when cracking open the plates mid-corner at the edge of traction is very important.
EBR will strive to implement the DECADES of racing experience into every product.
If the end user feels the Race ECM mapping improves his/her personal experience, that's money well spent.
I'd bet the power gains will make them smile as well.
Again, no engine management system (or Map) will be a "one size fits all". The end user must consider if their bike configuration is within the stated specification. Communication is the key here. Planning your upgrades to work as a complimentary system will pay off in the end. Call and let Erik's guys help you eliminate frustrating variables. The EBR data base for popular component combinations will grow for sure - just keep in mind the parts for sale through EBR have been developed through the above process.
EBR sells what they race and race what they sell.
DSMcG |
Keef
| | Posted on Sunday, January 31, 2010 - 08:15 pm: |
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well I just ordered a Apex full race exhaust for my 1125cr,I ordered the K&N yesterday and a Y0152.08AZ ECM the day before,all parts should be here sometime next week.... come on warm weather
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Manxboy
| | Posted on Monday, February 01, 2010 - 06:25 pm: |
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Dsmcg,
Having the pleasure of racing my 1125R last year with a EBR race ECM I agree completely with your post. Driveability off corners was fantastic, as was corner entry, no big scary moments like I've experienced with other bikes that did not have such a refined map. I've ridden the bike on the street a few times also and found the map worked well there too, great torque curve and amazingly civilized for such a quick bike. |
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