| Author | Message | ||
     Johnnys999 |
Did a search, found nothing regarding the FatDuc manipulator. For those who haven't heard of it, the FatDuc is an ingenious and reasonably priced device that fools the ECM into thinking the bike is running richer. This device is a life saver for newer Ducatis with the closed loop lambda mix control. Especially when you install an aftermarket exhaust or filter. The Ducati and I know the Buell run a little lean from the factory and they both run leaner still when an exhaust is installed. The device has a small adjustment dial for the AF mix control, usual setting at around 13:5. It connects inline with the 02 sensor, the Duc I had was already equipped with a compatible connector so the install was all of 15 seconds. Now, I hope what I saw on the exhaust pipe the other day was a 02 bung with a wire sticking out of it. If the closed loop lambda system was installed to comply with Euro 3 emission specs, then the Buell might accept the FatDuc. If so it will clear up any jerkiness, surging and decelleration popping. It worked miracles on the Ducatis. I first started looking into this when I watched a UTube video of a FMF slip on exhaust drive by (for sound purposes). What I did notice and was disappointed by the fact there was noticible decell popping. I emailed a distributor of the Fat Duc since I couldn't for some reason find the manufacturer's website. That was 3 or 4 days ago without response. I'm going to dig deeper for the source and advise. Previously, many Duc owners had to shell out big bucks buying a new ECU after installing the exhaust. The FatDuc even improves the performance of a stock bike too, I know because I put one on my stock Multistrada. I looked in the factory manual and it looks like the Duc and Buell 02 sensors serve the same purpose, thats good news. However, the Buell for some reason has two sensors, one forward and one aft. My Multistrada only had one sensor, but the Duc 1098 superbike also has two sensors. If the Buell is a candidate for the Fatduc this fact will drive the price up to $160 instead of $80. That wouldn't deter me one bit, the alternative is way more expensive and the improvement is worth every penny. I wrote the distributor a second email tonight, so I'll report back once they respond, I hope. (Message edited by JohnnyS999 on January 21, 2010) | ||
| Family_buells |
Sounds interesting. I'll stay tuned to see if it works. | ||
| Dentguy |
Here you go. http://www.fatduc.com/ Keep in mind that the O2 manipulator only works in closed loop. | ||
| Murraebueller |
Looks interesting but it's a four wire system and as far as I know the Buell sensors are single wire. | ||
| Johnnys999 |
Jason from FatDuc responded to my email and he is more than happy to follow up on my questions regarding is the Buell a candidate for the FatDuc. He needed some info like pictures, type of connectors (if any), the wiring type or anything else from the manual. He will then make up a prototype device. Murraebueller, I hear you on the single wire vs the four wire of the FatDuc. I'll run that fact by him and see if that messes things up. Dentguy, yes thats right. The FatDuc is for the closed loop mode, best in the 4K rpm to 4.5K rpm. I also found the connectors about 6" from the sensors, so thats good. I took pics of them and sent them off to Jason. (Message edited by JohnnyS999 on January 22, 2010) | ||
| Johnnys999 |
Talked to Jason again after I sent a series of pictures to him of the two 02 sensors. He can make prototype connectors but with a ground wire since the Buell for some reason has a single wire set up. Once the prototype connector is made then it will need a bike preferably one with an aftermarket exhaust that is showing signs of being too lean which means jerkiness or popping on decell. I'll put this out in the general forum. | ||
| Justa4banger |
The 4 wire O2 sensor is just a HEATED sensor, nothing special.......... as for this gizmo being the cure all, its just a band aid.. the O2 sensors are only recognized by the ecm after warm up and while at idle or cruise. Although this will Temporaily fix any lean/rich condition at idle or cruise it will not improve the entire map for WOT runs or agressive riding... if your setup is lean it will continue to be lean except at idle and cruise..I have no proof yet, i'm researching, but i believe the O2 sensors are ignored above 7k and below 4 k while cruising...plus on top of all this , these cheap o2 sensors in the buell are basically worthless, they have such a narrow range of feedback, they just can't measure enough to actually compensate for anything worth while.. Yes if you have surging this gizmo, might help, yes if you get decel pop, this MIGHT help, but if your engine is already running lean... this will not help...its a over glorified band aid.. my 2 cents... | ||
| Mikellyjo |
Thread hijack, sorry! But based on your comment about the 02 sensors being useless because they don't have wide enough range, is it possible to "upgrade" the 02 sensor?   | ||
| Ratbuell |
Only if you upgrade the programming to wideband, to match the O2 sensors. If you don't, your O2 will be throwing values at the ECM that it won't know what to do with. | ||
| Captain_america |
the ecm will be like WTF? and throw a code without re-scaling it to match the 0-5volt signal of the wideband | ||
| Dentguy |
Justa4banger, I don't think anyone said anything about a cure all and if they did, they shouldn't have. It was designed for a Ducati to help with a lean surge while cruising (closed loop). It is only meant for closed loop operation as stated in posts above. Which is typically below about 50%-60% of max rpm and less than 20% throttle openings. It was not meant to replace a race ECU on a Ducati which would do away with closed loop and can richen up the entire rpm range. As for a glorified band aid, it is only meant to change the O2 signal to the ECU so as to richen up closed loop conditions on a stock ECU. That's all and for $80, it does do that. Not trying to defend the Fat Duc, but I don't think it is marketed as a cure all. (Message edited by dentguy on January 23, 2010) | ||
| Mikellyjo |
figured as much...thanks for the clarification. | ||
| Captain_america |
So its just a glorified variable resistor.. a Pot? | ||
| Westmoorenerd |
thats what im getting out of it, especially because the picture just seems like a pot | ||
| Jules |
This may sound harsh but this has all the appeal of those "tuning chips" you buy on ebay that turn out to be a resistor that just adjusts the O2 signal and makes your car "more powerful"... The O2 sensors operate at too narrow a range for it to actually do much for you.... Even the Jardine box seems a better idea and I'm not keen on them either.. | ||
| Justa4banger |
Understood Dentguy, i just don't want other people to think that this will fix the tune of the bike... i know it only affects the closed loop, but for some reason i read these forums and it seems to me that people believe that tuning the closed loop map will affect the entire map... meaning if the gizmo richens the fuel mix at idle and cruise, that it also richens everything across the board, which it does not.. for those aren't familiar with tuning , i can see where some one would get the idea that this is a cure all. Also fixing a small issue in only the closed loop map only fixed one little issue.. the bigger issue will still be there.. (Message edited by justa4banger on January 23, 2010) | ||
| Id073897 |
i know it only affects the closed loop, but for some reason i read these forums and it seems to me that people believe that tuning the closed loop map will affect the entire map It will do nothing at all, not even harm. What a bunch of as******, selling stuff worth less than 10 cent for such money. Better give your money for Haiti or throw it at me. | ||
| Dentguy |
"for those aren't familiar with tuning , i can see where some one would get the idea that this is a cure all." Justa4banger, Good point. People shouldn't get the wrong idea (some do). It is not a cure all. | ||
| Vtwinbuell |
Are people really willing to pay $160 for a few resistors? All it is is a resistor divider to divide 800mV or 900mV from the O2 and cut it down to 500mV If you really think this will work, just get a few resistors and start playing. The ECM input is going to be an analog to digital input on whatever micro-controller it uses, so there will not be much input current needed. I will even give you guys a circuit that will do this. O2 Sensor----6K Ohm----ECM Input----10K Ohm----Ground This is not worth $160, and in my opinion it will not even work that reliably. It may work, but not reliably. The bike uses narrow band O2 sensors that are designed to give 500mV at 14.7 AFR, this is what the ECM is looking for. Narrow band sensors are not reliable in the 13 AFR range! Here is some reading material for those of you who would spend $160 on 10 cents worth of resistors. http://tuneyourharley.com/biketech/content/narrow- band-o2-sensor Id073897: Got something new? | ||
| Id073897 |
Id073897: Got something new? Still running everything in debug mode, but we made great progress over the last week, fixing a few minor issues, mainly typing mistakes in the databases, and adjusting scaling factors. It's a pleasure to watch DDFI-3 logs, many new variables added like IAC and MAP. | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Not to dismiss Johnnys999's post but this has been tried several times before by different mfgr's. and the one in the link below was tried by a member here on BadWeb a year ago and they all have fallen by the wayside as not very usefull. It has since been dropped by e-bay. In all fairness they all do work to some extent with very limited success..........very limited. Just my take on it FWIW. Research and spend your hard earned money carefully. Bob "http://stores.ebay.com/Tuningperformance" | ||
| Johnnys999 |
I know there are many thoughts here, I also started two threads regarding this. This one and another for a volunteer call. Anyway, I requested the inventor Jason Borders to come over here to explain his device. Only then will there be clarification. | ||
| Id073897 |
The algorithms in the ecm's firmware do not response to such a device, they are tamper proof in this regard, independent of how many urban legends might tell the opposite (BIG hint: schmitt-trigger in conjuction with a bang-bang regulator). I've done my homework too, you can safely bet on that. |
