| Author |
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Blackflash
| | Posted on Monday, January 25, 2010 - 10:02 pm: | 
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I'll be happy with the results even if the low end is the same as stock. I believe it will be peakier in the hp range. It definately feels stronger all the way around . I added 17" of primary I measured today . It could hurt it could help?Well between the two setups I've made I'll know where to go with all the testing. I would like thank those badwebbers who have kept interest in my exhaust endevors and helped by pointing out designs and added their thoughts in the exhaust thread
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/525270.html?1263871089.
posted awhile back. It's your input that led to this design.
1. Good tone
2. Good ground clearance
3. No maintenance " packing burnout"
4. Affordability
5. Fairing clearance
6. Solid stainless construction will be built if worthy.
7. Tucked around engine look.
8. Performance merges
9. Exhaust exit
I took All the info I gathered from the exhaust thread that all you badwebbers gave info in. Thanks for your input. Hopefully the dyno loves me tommorrow and rewards me of all my hard work. And maybe I can say it's good . Whoo whoooo!! |
Zac4mac
| | Posted on Monday, January 25, 2010 - 10:14 pm: |
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Red, I'm at 5000 ft ASL.
Corrections only do so much and a dyno is comparative.
I'm happy seeing a little more power than I had in the beginning.
Where I can barely pull a power wheelie in 1st, maybe 2nd here in Colorado -
I almost had Loretta in my lap at sea level, even tho she was lean, running at home altitude AFV.
I'm sure if I dyno'd her at sea level, I'd have a nice bunch of HP like you.
Z |
Blackflash
| | Posted on Monday, January 25, 2010 - 10:21 pm: |
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Thanks for pointing that out zac. Better results are attainable at sea level.
Plus your bike has some miles on her like mine. I'm at 18k. |
Justa4banger
| | Posted on Monday, January 25, 2010 - 10:24 pm: |
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Zac that explains the lower overall numbers.. that doesn't explain the lower difference between stock and modded..
Just saying...  |
Zac4mac
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 26, 2010 - 04:30 pm: |
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The 03Z flash was the strongest I've tried.
To beat that run, even slightly meant that I changed values successfully on the 05Z flash.
The 05Z flash was much smoother than the 03Z at the expense of power.
I have recouped that loss, can't wait to take her back down to sea level some day.
Zack |
Blackflash
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 26, 2010 - 06:40 pm: |
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Once I gather my dyno sheets properly I will post a good summary of the flow characterisc of this bike.I didnt post good numbers today over the original downpipe setup for a couple reasons.
But that will be explained real soon.But in all this shame on the dyno today.Ive found other intersting stuff I tried.I was just shaking my head! |
Blackflash
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 26, 2010 - 10:03 pm: |
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Okay here we go round two stock blue vs modified red.Not great results.I think 1.75 tube had too little flow at higher rpms but did well at low end.It went to rich at 9k due to not enough primary flow.
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Blackflash
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 26, 2010 - 10:10 pm: |
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by itself
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Blackflash
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 26, 2010 - 10:40 pm: |
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Now something very interesting
The stock muffler with 5% fuel added globally and 02s disabled.Blue is stock muffler with 5% added.Red is the original downpipe 5% more fuel. I had it laying around after the first buildup.Quite interesting that a open header runs exactly the same as the stock muffler .What does that tell me .Ya its lean but thats a really good indication that these bikes run better with the straight through designs.Look theres room for improvement "Richen".Look how lean it was and it put stock numbers down.What the hell.I only shook my head when the operator said throw that stock downpipe on without the muffler lets dyno it.I then came to the conclusion that a straight through design is the only design that will produce power on this bike a smooth perf tube straight through design with a minimal of 2.25 inlet downpipe into a 2.125" perf tube straight through.If you run a baffle setup you will gain lowend .The open header pipe shown in my charts to produce low and high rpm compared to stock results except for the afr issues .
Only problem with this finding is that it makes me not want to persue building baffled pipes as the first proved to create a little more tq and charge people money.I cant do it .It would have to be substantial gains for me to sell.Im not into marketing straight through pipes that produce loud noises.They are loud and obnoxious.Not my ticket.Ill stick with the stock muffler turnouts for now.Theres not much to be gained with a baffled setup .Straight throughs are to noisy.These bikes are air pumping machines and need flow.Flow comes with noise.The more noise the more the afv will need.Now i see whty jardine has a pipe they advertise as safe for stock use.Sure they could open it up more but then drastic mapping changes would have to be done.
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Justa4banger
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 26, 2010 - 10:56 pm: |
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wow, gained trq but lost substantial top end.. thats a bummer, but atleast you know now.. |
Blackflash
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 26, 2010 - 11:01 pm: |
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I thought about going to dual 1.875 tube instead of 1.75 |
Toysgarage
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 - 05:59 am: |
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just my 2 cents!
maybe try a bit smaller but longer with the dual ,then you dont have to worry about a collecter |
Unique_id
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 - 11:48 am: |
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You seem defeated and my following question of your logic is only meant to perhaps reinvigorate your interests in designing an exhaust (w/ baffles).
I have no education or experience in tuning a motor or exhaust so this is purely from an outsider's perspective.
You state that "a straight through design is the only design that will produce power on this bike"
However you also stated (and showed) that the OEM exhaust and the "open header" exhaust put out the same curve and HP numbers (besides being lean).
So I could say "a baffled non-free flowing exhaust is the only way to produce more power on this bike"
I reread your requirement list, and forgive me if I missed it, but did you want this pipe to work with the stock ECM with no tuning necessary? From reading all these exhaust threads it seems that more tuning might be necessary then to add 5% more fuel globally, again I don't know, just a question.
I think there is still hope to create a baffled exhaust that has good power (hp, torque).
If nothing else you at least showed how well the OEM exhaust (credit to Buell engineering) is compared to a free flowing design all the while keeping the bike as quit as a sewing machine... |
Bob_thompson
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 - 12:15 pm: |
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"I think there is still hope to create a baffled exhaust that has good power (hp, torque)."
Just a little more "FWIW" info; I pretty much agree with Blackflash on his "open pipe" idea, after all air flow has to be easy in and easy out and with proper fueling to usually produce the most torque/HP with normally aspirated engines.
I also have proven to my self that with straight through packed mufflers a proper engineered baffle can reduce noise without reducing the air flow significantly. I've already shown in past threads those I prefer. I also usually oversize the collector pipes and muffler somewhat by 1/8" to 1/4" to keep enough volume for any particular application.
Buells race pipe (basically straight through) is still probably the very best at producing power but man are they loud! Bob |
Blackflash
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 - 04:08 pm: |
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Bob do you know how to post a you tube video up on bad web.I would like to post a tv up but only get the link.I would actually like to post the actual tv up on the screen instead of being redirected. |
Blackflash
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 - 04:10 pm: |
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There will be a round three.I produced sooo much torque over stock I cant stop now .I went rich at 8k thats wht my numbers dropped.Im choked at the muffler!!Time for round three Open it up a little.Ill be tearing into the muffler tonight. |
Blackflash
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 - 05:43 pm: |
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Its already a go |
Blackflash
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 - 05:48 pm: |
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This ones for you T thanks for the encouragement.
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Bob_thompson
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 - 06:15 pm: |
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Blackflash, what I did was to have my son e-mail me a link from U-tube which I saved in "my documents" then just went with an "upload" on a BadWeb post. I'm still learning a lot about these things.
On your redo of your muffler, you might look at the link below to see exactly how a turbo type muffler is constructed to not have much restriction. Notice it does not use louvered pipes inside just perforated and I DO believe the extra chambers matter.
Maybe something to learn there. I have now switched to a straight through packed muffler with a certain unrestrictive desirable baffle to quiet it a bit. And I still do not know which flows better. Its a toss up but I'm favoring the latter.
Bob
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Blackflash
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 - 07:46 pm: |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGXuYbjWobk&feature =PlayList&p=C0C23524775A92DF&index=0#
All my runs |
Redscuell
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 - 10:53 pm: |
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Personally I decided to put a rocket engine under mine:
I'm thinking of naming it the Torque Triple. |
Blackflash
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 - 11:01 pm: |
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good job |
Blackflash
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 27, 2010 - 11:39 pm: |
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get it mounted .looks awesome |
Freight_dog
| | Posted on Thursday, January 28, 2010 - 02:29 am: |
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Damn Red, if the Drummer looked that pretty, I could understand the price. Nice workmanship. |
Toysgarage
| | Posted on Thursday, January 28, 2010 - 06:19 am: |
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is that ceramic coat ,,looks shmick
will definately stand out awesome finish |
Tbenson
| | Posted on Thursday, January 28, 2010 - 09:49 am: |
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Nice job Red! |
Bob_thompson
| | Posted on Thursday, January 28, 2010 - 11:38 am: |
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+1 here also Red, looks real good, and if I remember correctly you said before that it performed well also. I also would like to see it mounted. Good job man! Bob |
Blackflash
| | Posted on Thursday, January 28, 2010 - 06:55 pm: |
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I Ordered some packing today and some materials. It should be here tomorrow .I removed one of the baffles . One less baffle but more packing. Hopefully it will maintain it's db level with more packing. There was barely any packing in it just baffles.It had a really nice cruise sound &I hope I don't sacrifice that with two baffles . I'm hoping that more packing will get rid of the noise. |
Dannybuell
| | Posted on Thursday, January 28, 2010 - 08:36 pm: |
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Redscuell what is that?
dannybuell |
Bob_thompson
| | Posted on Thursday, January 28, 2010 - 10:06 pm: |
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Blackflash, with packing in your muffler how does the exhaust get from one louvered tube to another to exit without the packing interfering? With packing in there it may well not be enough flow just on the crossover on the ends. Even the stock Buell that is similar has no packing that I know of. No packing in most turbo types. It cancels noise with the reverses in flow. Does that make sense? |
Blackflash
| | Posted on Friday, January 29, 2010 - 07:03 pm: |
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I have made power similiar to stock with the first version.I actually made alot more tq.But not enough to make me happy to say its good.On the second try I made lots of torque and it fell off in the hp range.I then ran this pipe
wide open and got same results as stock without a muffler but ran dangerously lean.Im kinda leaning toward a straight through using two of the three baffles in the turbo setup I already have.The next will be a straight through style to see where Im at with this 2 into one merge setup.
I've had no time due to pushing snow but when I do I'll get back on it.
.I fired her up today on the bike .It was poppier at idle than before but smoothed to a good tone as I revved her up.It had no poppy noise at idle before but From what ive found these bikes like flow .Baffles dont give flow.So hopefully by me packing a large case with packing kills the noise.Im kindof of curious to see how much power can be produced with a drummer.I mean how much potential does it have ?Has anyone seen at chart over 130 hp? |
Redscuell
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 02, 2010 - 12:57 am: |
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Sad news (after all the $$ spent on it): my 'shiny' 4th prototype, shown in my prior post in this thread, is an abject failure except for looks and sound.
I'll put it down to having restricted the inlet side, because the 'third pipe' outlet is, if anything, only slightly larger than my 'original' 2nd prototype, which posted significant gains. |
