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Nik
| | Posted on Sunday, November 22, 2009 - 09:41 pm: | 
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quote:But then again Italian scooters that shift are cool. So says I.
Agreed. I have 75 and 77 Rally 200s and a 79 P200e.
I have no love for the new plastic fantastics though. |
Joseschopshop
| | Posted on Sunday, November 22, 2009 - 10:13 pm: |
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Court,how's this for a real scooter?
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2532/3760194017_b05 33dab33_o.jpg
But....why not ride a XR75 if you're going to ride a little turd?
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3527/3741150826_2ee ae30a95_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2500/3679399561_b3a ec79e53_o.jpg |
Fmaxwell
| | Posted on Sunday, November 22, 2009 - 10:22 pm: |
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@Jonesz0003
All there is to shutting Buell down is vendetta-driven political infighting. There's no big mystery.
As to Harley's being different than scooters, not always:
Nothing says "badass" like a ride that is as "gentle as a billowy summer cloud."
And I always said that Harleys were sh*t -- so I guess that the name of this one is truth in advertising:
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R2s
| | Posted on Sunday, November 22, 2009 - 11:20 pm: |
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Just like with Buell, the wrong market. People don't go to go to a Harley dealer to look at scooters just like they would not go there to look at sport bikes. HD is run by friggin IDIOTS. |
Duchunter
| | Posted on Monday, November 23, 2009 - 12:20 am: |
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You haven't LIVED until you've raced those little pastel colored scooters!
On the day that I picked up my 1125R the HD dealership stayed open late for me because I came from out of town to pick up a new bike. While the sales staff were pulling the bikes inside I challenged them to a 10 lap race around the parking lot on those scooters, just for laughs. We had a blast!
Those scooters are GREAT! They're just another way to have fun on 2 wheels. I could see owning one for running errands around town. To me its hardly worth riding a superbike to make a 1 mile trip to the post office. |
Nik
| | Posted on Monday, November 23, 2009 - 12:48 am: |
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quote:
Yeah; the guy on the scooter isn't trying to use his bike to compensate for his "shortcomings."
It's a different kind of posturing but its still there. |
Johnj
| | Posted on Monday, November 23, 2009 - 01:13 am: |
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Are those USD forks? And a mono-shock? On a '63 Harley? |
Sleeper_777
| | Posted on Monday, November 23, 2009 - 07:01 am: |
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Local Dealer has Segways for sale along side the fat hogs. Strange. |
Palmer
| | Posted on Monday, November 23, 2009 - 08:28 am: |
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Pattio,
what I would like to say is very simple. A lot of people said that 1125 could not be selled in a HD dealership, because no one who enters in a HD dealership goes there for a rotax engined bike.
I think this is stupid. If a see a bike I like, on the street, on tv, on magazines, I search a dealer where I can see and buy it.
I don't stop randomly to dealers to see what they sell and I don't buy the first bike I see.
Now In Italy and Europe the perception about HD is focused on Brand, Myth, Legend, History, Quality, exclusiveness. A Cross Bones in our dealership is selled for 20.000 euros - something like 30.000 dollars out of the door.
This may work, but not forever; Until people perceive the exclusivity of the Brand.
But if you put some plastic items in a HD dealership, this is the end.
PGO and genuine american scooters may have a good price and work good, but this isn't quality. A new vespa (not the old one! in europe could not pass the euro3 anti pollution law!) or a Aprilia SR equipped with a ditech engine, this is quality.
quality material, ditech technology, quality design, quality brand, top performance.
This is quality. But Anyway it's a realy stupid thing to sell something like this next to a electra glide. Really stupid.
These are two different markets, way to different than the difference between a 1125 and a Harley.
I hope for harley that they never decide to sell "american genuine scooters" in the dealerships in europe.
Anyway, PGO scooters in Italy ar selled in shopping malls. |
Fmaxwell
| | Posted on Monday, November 23, 2009 - 10:06 am: |
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I've actually got a scooter; an Aprilia Atlantic 500.
460cc and 39hp (5 more than the Blast). Tops out at 96mph indicated with the larger Givi windshield I have. Huge amounts of storage both under and behind the seat. Great wind protection -- I can ride it on cold mornings when riding the the 1125CR/XB12Ss/DRZ400S would be brutal. The lack of a clutch is also a blessing in stop-and-go DC area rush hour traffic.
Looking at the passenger accomodations with fold-down floorboards, I think that you can see why it's my girlfriend's favorite of my bikes to passenger on. |
Rick_a
| | Posted on Monday, November 23, 2009 - 11:25 am: |
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This is a scooter I'd actually buy
Sexy girls not included |
Chadhargis
| | Posted on Monday, November 23, 2009 - 11:50 am: |
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There's a scooter in that picture??? |
Fmaxwell
| | Posted on Monday, November 23, 2009 - 07:59 pm: |
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That does look fun to ride!  |
Rex
| | Posted on Monday, November 23, 2009 - 08:13 pm: |
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Scooters are cool.
there is a country comedian that was talking about his scooter....he had asked his wife for a motorcycle. she said sure. he went out and bought fringed jacket, leather pants, etc. she brought him home a scooter.
he said it is so slow, the fringe doesn't even blow in the wind. he said what cop would pull him over, going 22 mph wearing a leather fringed jacket. it was funny. |
Pogokcee
| | Posted on Monday, November 23, 2009 - 08:26 pm: |
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Q: What do scooters and fat chicks have in common?
A: They are both fun to ride until your buddies see you on one!!! |
46champ
| | Posted on Monday, November 23, 2009 - 10:38 pm: |
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The close model doesn't look too happy on her scooter. And by the way when does a scooter quit being a scooter and become a small motorcycle? |
Barker
| | Posted on Monday, November 23, 2009 - 10:57 pm: |
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my scoot.
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Pattio
| | Posted on Monday, November 23, 2009 - 11:54 pm: |
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"But as far as I remember, there was a genius who wanted to produce scooter with the brand of MV Augusta? probably the CEO of HD. ah! uh! D'oh! they sell it"
Palmer you may not have known that MV made scooters. I was visiting my friend who is a collector today so I took a pic of this 1952 MV Agusta scooter:
My friend also has scooters about the same age made by Ducati and by Triumph, as well as many other extremely obscure marques.
As for someone's question above about when a scooter becomes a motorcycle, there will of course always be room for debate, but the primary elements to consider are a step-through riding position with the engine located under the rider, the engine being constructed as a unit with the swingarm and thus moving with the rear wheel, built-in weather-protection and storage, and an emphasis on hand controls. There are always exceptions, but those elements are common from a 1948 Vespa to a 2009 maxi. |
Palmer
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 09:51 am: |
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of course! Even the guzzi's galletto is a masterpiece.
the only thing similar to our time and the past is that people needs cheap, good quality, hard workers, good performance vehicles for everyday. That is (and was) the case of the vespa, of the galletto.
Now taiwanese or chinese scooter are nothing about these things: these are only cheap scooters. If you assume these are quality scooter you never worked neither drived a aprilia SR, a Honda Foresight, a new vespa.
Harley and harley dealers needs to make money. Big customs do not make money anymore. But in my opinion these scooter posted in the opening of this thread aren't a good choice. The new vespa IS a good choice.
Here is my scoot:
piaggio Zip Sport Production. Awesome piece of machinery. Top performance! with a full Malossi tuning this thing is faster than a T-Max!
Ps: I think a mv augusta scooter is a very good idea. Here in Italy the yamaha t-max is a status symobl. In Rome every 10 scooters 3 are T-Max. |
Oddball
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 10:13 am: |
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That MadAss frame would be cool with a Blast engine. The new Buell BadAss. |
Pattio
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 10:20 am: |
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Hi Palmer- you and me going back and forth about the 'quality' of scooters has got me thinking about the saying:
"If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all".
What I mean is, the word 'luck' just means fortune or tendency-of-outcome, but it could be bad luck or it could be good. The same thing is true of 'quality'. I was using the word 'quality' to mean 'good quality', but the truth is that everything in this world has 'quality', good, bad, or somewhere in-between.
Here in my market, I would say, based on personal experience, that a person who buys a Genuine brand scooter made by PGO of Taiwan is buying a good quality scooter, compared to the other choices available to them. In your market, where more than 100x more people use scooters every day and you have 100x more dealers and support shops to choose from, the same little scooter might be one of the worst quality scooters available to you. I think in your country you do not get the worst-of-the-worst of Chinese scooters that some Americans dishonestly sell and other Americans stupidly buy. For every professional dealership that is trying to sell a safe and trustworthy product to a satisfied customer, there are ten mail-order businesses selling dangerous, sometimes illegal crap to people who don't know any better. In your country, where real people use these vehicles for real transportation, the worst-of-the-worst simply won't be tolerated, but please take my word for it- these bad eggs make up a significant number of the market for customers in the US.
Here in the US the Vespa brand product is the import, just like the HD is in Italy, and the product is very overpriced for what you get and is sold in boutique-style which is all about stroking the customer with what a fancy purchase they are making- not really transportation.
So when I say the PGO is good quality and you say it is bad, I think we are both right.
I also want to say (with a smile) that it is unfair for you to bring the Aprilia SR50 Ditech into the conversation. I used to be an Aprilia dealer, and I used to race an SR50, with Malossi cylinder, CDI and exhaust, and that bike was the most amazing, competent and reliable 50 I have ever experienced. It could do 60mph, got 90mpg, and used less than one small bottle of synthetic 2t oil in the whole time I owned it. I don't mind admitting that bike belongs on another planet compared to my PGOs. |
Palmer
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 10:59 am: |
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Yes pattio we are speaking about the same thing. I only find really strange that a brand like Harley - percived by people for his story, his quality, is exclusivness, is starting to sell next to overpriced bikes some cheap scooters.
Is there something wrong? and this happens in NY not somewhere out in the middle of nothing in UTAH.
Now is time to focus my opinion.
...The tiny subsidiary enjoyed an erratic growth while its huge brother was beginning to slide; Buell had 10% increase in shipments in 2006 with a 7.6% drop in 2007 and almost a 14% increase in 2008.
This indicates the Harley line had hit market saturation before the recession hit, while Buell—though shipments were miniscule—was still growing.
http://wmoon.wordpress.com/2009/11/04/how-the-harl ey-blew-it-10-critical-mistakes-that-will-affect-i t-both-now-and-in-the-next-boom-cycle/
very interessant article.
They had a good and in expansion brand in their hand, and they clkosed it. Who made the mistakes?
Selling chinese scooters on harley floor means selling story, production skills, workers to hell.
I'm now reading The Iron Heel by Jack London. It was written more than 100 years ago. But still so modern. |
Pattio
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 11:11 am: |
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Don't forget: It was not Harley who chooses to put the scooters in the showroom- it is the dealer who is trying everything they can to try to survive. |
Palmer
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 24, 2009 - 11:17 am: |
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yes I know.
But this strategy, in my opinion, is a failure. Let's see what happens! |
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