| Author |
Message |
    
Jdugger
| | Posted on Sunday, November 15, 2009 - 07:14 pm: | 
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Court,
Any opinion on the state of the various Buell patents?
Issues like
- When are they due to expire?
- Are the patents CORE, or are they ancillary? (for example, the perimeter brake has a lot of prior art, so perhaps the Buell patent is around an aspect of their implementation, but not the concept itself?)
Basically,
What real Intellectual Property hurdles stand in the way of an independent company using many of the core ideas of the 1125r in a newly designed product? |
Hughlysses
| | Posted on Sunday, November 15, 2009 - 07:20 pm: |
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Jim- Good questions. Also, like I stated in an earlier thread- who better to skirt the limits of patent infringement than the guy who developed the patents in the first place?  |
Jdugger
| | Posted on Sunday, November 15, 2009 - 07:28 pm: |
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Depends on the parent company's will and depth of pocket, too.
You can IP litigate a small firm right out of business with 'edge' claims. But, if it's clear cut, it sure helps to keep that kind of thing from happening.
In Erik's specific case, he's most likely bound by an executive non-compete including compensation to sit around the house and do nothing if not working for Buell/HD.
Those contracts are enforceable so long as HD is compensating according to the terms of the contract.
But, that doesn't stop, say, a large number of ex-employees from doing something.
I don't know WI law, but in Texas, almost ANY kind of non-compete clause for an At Will employee is completely non-enforceable. So long as the ex-employee isn't stealing company IP, they can go to a competitor the very next day after termination. If there's prior art in the marketplace (Erik was the first to deliver a bike with a perimeter brake, not invent it, for example), generally the same concepts can be used again safely.
Again... in theory. Hypothetically. So, let's assume. If the case were such that. Imagine for a moment, if you will... |
Court
| | Posted on Sunday, November 15, 2009 - 08:05 pm: |
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>>>who better to skirt the limits of patent infringement than the guy who developed the patents in the first place?
And who's Father was a Patent Attorney.
But . . . let me put this tangent to rest.
I know NOTHING about any of the IP or other agreements.
Erik would never do anything illegal or unethical. That I am absolutely certain of.
Strange to me is that HD, after publicly being quite clear they never intended to use any Buell technology, is locking it down.
Im betting there are folks who would eagerly fund buying it. |
Kidder
| | Posted on Sunday, November 15, 2009 - 08:11 pm: |
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Court,
I blame DMG, not Buell for their unfair advantage (at times) against the 600s.
That is VERY interesting what you say about HD being pissed about Buell winning. I would not have thought that at all. I would've thought they would be ecstatic. Thanks for the insight. |
Fresnobuell
| | Posted on Sunday, November 15, 2009 - 08:15 pm: |
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I blame DMG, not Buell for their unfair advantage (at times) against the 600s.
Power advantage was counteracted by add'l weight and aerodynamic disadvantage. |
Jdugger
| | Posted on Sunday, November 15, 2009 - 08:37 pm: |
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> Strange to me is that HD, after publicly being quite clear they never intended to use any Buell technology, is locking it down.
And that's the real shame in all of this.
I'll probably never set foot in an HD dealer again in my life outside of Warranty service.
What's the reason? All the good bikes are gone. All that's left in there are some overweight chrome yachts with no cornering clearance. |
Naiguy
| | Posted on Sunday, November 15, 2009 - 11:11 pm: |
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look closley at the rear axle there is adjustment there!
ie chain drive swingarm |
Budo
| | Posted on Monday, November 16, 2009 - 10:23 am: |
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Court, where would I find this article?
"Read Dale Frank's account (later proven to be right on the money) about the folks who found Erik abrasive and were out to give Buell a "throat slitting". " |
Hughlysses
| | Posted on Monday, November 16, 2009 - 11:01 am: |
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Budo- Here you go:
http://dalefranks.com/cycles/index.php/2009/09/bue lls-future-uncertain/ |
Budo
| | Posted on Monday, November 16, 2009 - 11:52 am: |
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Interesting read,
Thanks...... |
Tpoppa
| | Posted on Monday, November 16, 2009 - 12:56 pm: |
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Dale's site is a bit hard to navigate, or maybe I just haven't figured it out yet...
But, if you search for 'Buell' there are quite a few articles that are worth reading. |
Court
| | Posted on Monday, November 16, 2009 - 01:22 pm: |
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>>>if you search for 'Buell' there are quite a few articles that are worth reading.
Read them again while asking . . . why is EVERY DETAIL PERFECTLY ACCURATE with the exception of the reasons that HD closed Buell.
Dale cites, time and time again, personal agendas, "throat slitting" and a couple of folks' disdain for Buell and Erik Buell.
Then . . .30 days later . . the NEW CEO and CFO (one fresh from Johnson Controls, the other from a career at Kraft Foods) who'd never ridden motorcycles and knew nothing of a couple folks' personal vendettas, announced the "crushing" citing "business reasons" . . . and then publish their 10-Q showing Buell assets made of a whopping 3/10,000th of 1% of Harley. Think of taking 2 grains out of the sugar bowl.
Wandell and Olin got used as pawns in somebody’s nasty little corporate game. I suspect one of the folks who once told me "Buell will get anything Harley doesn't have over my dead body" may have been involved.
Bottom line is it looks like someone fed Wandell and Olin a personal agenda served up covered in the ketchup of "good business sense" and they unwittingly swallowed it.
I suspect they'll be hearing more and more about this as will members of the press, the financial community and local political leaders.
Dale's Blog is a GREAT source of information . . . |
Jdugger
| | Posted on Monday, November 16, 2009 - 03:09 pm: |
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> I suspect one of the folks who once told me "Buell will get anything Harley doesn't have over my dead body" may have been involved.
Well, it took them 25 years to realize & shut down modern engineering, innovation and the manufacture of actually competent motorcycles, but I guess they finally got it done.
Harley Davidson makes a superb rolling chicane.
(Message edited by jdugger on November 16, 2009) |
Swamp2
| | Posted on Monday, November 16, 2009 - 08:22 pm: |
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Is somebody making sure all the trade rags (e.g. Cycle World, Motorcyclist, et al) are getting this side of the story? I'm gonna be really interested to see the coverage of the shutdown when it comes out... |
Hellgate
| | Posted on Monday, November 16, 2009 - 08:43 pm: |
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All I can say is, "Wow!" That bike looks stunning. I can say if it was to be available I'd own one.
Looks like they added a lower radiator or two too. Not a bad idea.
Any carbon fiber builders want to build a body kit? I think you could sell quite a few, I'm game for a one.  |
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