| Author | Message | ||
     D_adams |
Here's all of them together. http://www.youtube.com/user/deanadams1969 I was also asked about doing one without changing the sound of the exhaust, but direct it away just like the ones I've pictured. Yep, it can be done without any internal mods for a lot less time and $$ and it would look pretty much like what I've shown. I can make the outlet pretty much any way you like, straight, slashed, even a radiused pipe outlet on an angle. Tell me what you'd like to see and I can probably do it. No third leg option though, I won't go there. | ||
| Ysracer |
"we'll go with 7.5" to be generous and make it easy. Now, multiply that by .5 and you get 15 and then add that last .5 in there for a total of 15.5 (fifteen and one half) 1/2" sections. Now, provided I haven't lost you in this so far, multiply that number by 8. What didya come up with? 124 holes?" ummmmmm.......7.5 x .5 = 3.75, not 15. | ||
| D_adams |
Whoops, typo. shoulda been 2, not .5 to get there. My bad. There are 15.5 sections of 1/2" around the circumference of the pipe. Thanks for catching that. I'll leave the post as is though. Dunno what I was doing there. I think I did something on the calculator and then typed a .5 here instead. I'm a wet noodle. Somebody shoot me. 15,5*.5= 7.75? Did I get it right now? Gawd, I feel like such a total dork now. I never shoulda posted that info.  As my kids would usually say when I do something like that "Epic Fail, Dad!" (Message edited by d_adams on November 05, 2009) | ||
| D_adams |
Hmm, no backpressure, so why does this one run? Or even better, this Sorry dude, but it's just quirky sometimes. Backpressure has nothing to do with it starting and running, as evidenced by the above videos running open headers. Yeah, the 2nd one is a bit extreme, but I'm just proving the point. It just so happened to not start on the first spin a few times, just like the last year that I've had it. Doing that is not unheard of, but it is pretty rare. Here's another where it didn't have a problem, at about 30 seconds into the video, it gets started. | ||
| Torquaholic |
I agree with Dean on the examples of open headers on race cars... just look at Formula one. If anyone wants to spend some time reading up on exhaust tech, I found this page interesting (see below). It specifically focuses on Harley exhaust, but goes into some detail of exhaust tech in general. The author seems cocky and a little bias, but some of the points made regarding the design of exhaust seem valid. I only post this because the article points out some physics of back pressure, header primary design and tubing size, megaphones, etc. http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/exhausttech.htm | ||
| D_adams |
Damn, that was funny! I like those guys.
Torq, thanks for posting this, this is just some of what you get in school, or at least I did. Not sure about everyone else, but I did go to school to learn M/C repair a long time ago. | ||
| Rpm4x4 |
D adams. Thanks for the info. Keep it coming. I would like to hear how the torque curve was effected. Redscuell and Blackflash, feel free to post your better design so others can ridicule it. | ||
| Easyrider |
I am curius too see a dyno run on really low RPM like 1500 start at WOT.. When there is no backpressure, there is also not Much torque at Low RPM. The most race exhaust have no backpressure, and make a lot of HP at really High RPM, for that reason it needs much more fuell there then the stock system will supply so Depends on what you like I think. | ||
| Blackflash |
Ive had my header off adams and ya it cranked for a couple revs before it started too.The video you provided didnt prove anything but a running bike with open headers.I didnt hear the bike crank over. It was already running!!!All your other videos show that it didnt start very well.I pulled those two tubes out and know what the results were .I purposely didnt want to say anything on your forum for a reason.I wanted to see you ruin a pipe.I know the results will not be pretty. But hopefully when you dyno it youll see why it wasnt a good move.Been there done that!!maybe you could pull the airbox lids off others bikes too and swiss cheese it .You could sell that for another 350.00 also  .Any local fabricator would love to have that job for 100.00 to weld the tips on.Sorry not impressed.I give you props YOU CAN WELD | ||
| Blackflash |
 See this pipe adams. Notice the two tubes were missing.I didnt have to cut the can open to get to them I just burnt the ends off and shook the tubes out of the can then I integrated a nice 3 inch tip. It ran like crap!! I then added stainless screen overlapped twice to bring back the backpressure .It sound horrible and it also ran like crap.I didnt really realize it till I rode another stock r .I then was lucky enough to find one on ebay for 50 bucks. I never went back to that peice of crap pipe .Actually it was only worth cutting up .When you took those tubes out you directed the flow straight from the main tube .So the rest of the baffles arent being used .Fact!! The pipe is a engineering marvel and doesnt need changed it just needs redirected outlits.Even the pipes outlets when aimed outward alone makes more noise.I shake my head!!Bring on the dyno results!!!you love me | ||
| Blackflash |
I have no new designs except the tips kicked out.Like ive stated before Dave at o s b has proven that the stock can and a tune makes just as much hp and tq as a pipe with a tune .There equal results.Point being why put any money into a pipe that wont give you a increase over the stock pipe?Dave still runs a stock can on his bike!!He sells tunes .What does that tell you people?Leave your pipes alone for gods sake!!Buy a torque hammer!! buy something lightwieght!! but to pay 350.00 for this and still have a heavy chopped terd on your bike.No tune?? makes absolute no sense???My opinion. | ||
| Blackflash |
I am in the works on a reasonable solution for this whole deal .I am waiting for material that is order .I am sure youll all be pleased for a reasonable price!!!Im flying under the radar  | ||
| Mikellyjo |
Well this has been quite the conversation to follow I'll give you guys that. Let's not forget why we have these machines in the first place...to get adolescent enjoyment out of a ride. We all love to tweek our cycles in one form or another. An To sum up all this panty bunching: D_: we all eagerly await your results on the dyno. Whether good or bad, lessons will be learned for the next guy. It sure sounds nice from here. Black: It appears your exhaust mod tapped into the second chamber from the picture you provided. Could this have caused the negative effects you encountered? I am by no means an expert...but isn't this how Buell was started? A guy farting around with his bike to make a better mouse trap.   | ||
| Geforce |
Thanks Mike. The funny part is, no matter what the dyno results are this weekend. I have a feeling that a couple of fellows will claim that we sprinkled magic fairy sh!t from Meramec Caverns on the pipe and achieved the results posted. If we break even and there isn't any gain I'm fine with that. If we get some extra power, then great. If we have a big drop, then we can try something else. None of those possibilities lead to failure in my mind. It's been a lot of fun to play with it and see how everything is coming together. I am impressed with the sound and outlets. That was the primary focus of the mod. | ||
| Milleniumx1 |
+1 on what Geforce said above. I've been watching this closely because I like folks that try to make things better even if the masses criticize it. That is a bit of the Buell spirit, and I'm hoping for the best even as an interested observer. Thanks Gents!! | ||
| Ridenusa4l |
One thing i noticied with black flash is that, his outlet would have MAJORLY disrupted the exhaust flow, between coming out through the mesh and the burnt tips then angling upward, its no wonder it made it run like crap. No offense just my opinion. With D_adams at least he keeps the same trajectory with the out lets and doesnt disturb the overall flow of the muffler. Zac4Mac drilled out the back of his "s" tubes through the outlets, yet he had NO problem AT ALL, which is on a smaller scale exactly what D is doing. Personally i LOVE what he is doing, and if i lived closer id have him do it to mine too, only time will tell and a dyno will tell the truth... Jake | ||
| Blackflash |
With D_adams at least he keeps the same trajectory with the out lets and doesnt disturb the overall flow of the muffler. Wrong ridenusa41 WOW Im blown away adams pipe did disrupt the flow just as bad as my mod did. I tried to choke it up with wire mesh but the results were less than optimal.The two pipes that were removed was a big no no.All the flow is ran to the back baffle and then to the two outlets.look at the pipe cutout very closely.Think !! | ||
| Blackflash |
Like Ive always said it take a genius to make a perfect flowing pipe.Buell had tons of r&d in this pipe.Just like the windscreen in the tunnel.They have built in my mind a very efficient pipe with reasonable db ratings.Soooooo just cut the pipes out.Perfect  make it louder.Half of the design of the pipe isnt even being used now.I admit I like his tips look but the removal of the 2 tubes was way too much.dyno will tell 4th gear pulls 2500k to 10k pulls is what we need to see. Back to back with a modded pipe then to a stock pipe.Within a hour.very achievable. | ||
| D_adams |
Jake, there's always either USPS or UPS, or even Fedex. Just wait for the results. I called the dealer with the dyno, told them what I'm doing and that I'd like a 2nd run with the stock pipe. They said they'd try to squeeze it in. I can get the pipe off in 5 minutes, even hot, might be able to do a full swap in 10 minutes if they'll wait that long. I don't need the front bolts in just for a dyno run, so 2 bolts and the clamps might do it. I need to check my AFV's tonight to verify if they stayed the same all week. 110 front, 100 rear. If there's no change, then a back to back run will work. With luck, they'll let me swap the pipe while it's still on the dyno. Just shut it down, yank the pipe, put the other on and run it. I'll have to haul it there in my truck, but in this case (to potentially silence the whiners) I'll sacrifice a good ride in the interest of getting a back to back set of runs. I fully intend for someone to eat some crow here. If I'm wrong, I'll be the very first person to admit it, however, if I'm right.... well, lets just say it will be someone else eating some. I am NOT a master fabricator/welder/phd/engineer or whatever other designation someone needs to apply to themselves. I'm a mechanic. Period. I've worked on cars, trucks, bikes and industrial equipment for 25+ years. I work on multi-million dollar equipment on a daily basis. Screwing that kind of equipment up is NOT an option. I also love to ride. I love to tinker with stuff to see if it can be improved. If it blows up and I get egg on my face, well, I learn from it. I don't do the same thing 3 times in a row and get the exact same results every time, except for when I'm doing it right. At least that's what she told me. If you do it wrong, try something different? I also thought the stock exhaust was aesthetically pleasing to look at and didn't really think it needed a third or even fourth leg to stand up with. The end result is what you see and hear in the videos I posted. The dyno results will be posted on Saturday afternoon, whether they're good or bad. I will NOT hide behind anything. If I screwed it up, then I'll do something different. Until then, could you kindly refrain from knocking what I've done? It's only making you look like you're jealous of what I've done. I've already offered to set you up with one, but all I see is more negativity. Is this not for sharing instead of bashing? I've FULLY documented EVERYTHING I've done, have you? It's not a secret what's inside, there are four chambers after the collector. The rearmost one is the thinest, the 2nd chamber from the rear contains the 2 small pipes I removed and a pair of 2.5" pipes, the 3rd chamber has the same pipes as well. The 4th one only has the single 2.5" pipe in it, but the exhaust flows into and then out of this chamber through the plate that separates each section. From what I can see on your pipe (the one pictured) you cut into the last 3 sections? Of course I might not be correct since the angle is kinda off to really tell. Yep, 3" pipe cut across a 45 degree angle covering 3 sections, I think that might be where you went wrong. I don't really even wanna go there. It just looks wrong and based on what you've told us, it didn't work either. Oh well, have a nice evening. Ride on.... | ||
| Blackflash |
The 3 in tip was crushed into a oval 1 1/2" wide 3" long.I crushed it sideways so the tip wasnt 3 inch round.Then added screen to get back the low end but still lost the crispness of the bike.Im not completely bashing here like ive said the pipe needs to be slightly modified not gutted!!Most of the two tubes was solid not perforated.Then you cut them out??air flow right there was changed .all the flow is now being sent to the easiest exit. And not following the intended designed route.I believe your top end will increase slightly "PEAK" but low and mid will struggle. Flying under the radar | ||
| Blackflash |
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| Rpm4x4 |
Black flash, youve made your point loud and clear. You can stop now. | ||
| Easyrider |
D_adams, Try to simulate the same conditions when you do a dynorun and the same temperatures of the engine, Heat up the bike good. (maybe you already know this) Then make a run from 1500 RPM, and WOT.. The nice thing is that you will see also on the WOT the caracter of the exhaust at LOW RPM. Good luck.. | ||
| D_adams |
Easyrider, just to make sure, you run yours from 1500 rpm (essentially from idle) to 10500 rpm in what gear? My only run so far, they did from 3000 rpm to redline in 5th gear for a peak of 128 hp. I've personally never seen a dyno chart start below 2500 rpm, and this motor can rev a lot higher than say, a HD motor. Even Buell started their charts at 3000 rpm. I'll try to get this all done within 1/2 an hour, but if I have to take the bike down off the dyno to swap pipes and there's someone else waiting, there's not a lot I can do about it. I tried idling down to 1500 rpm in 6th tonite on the highway, I got to about 35 mph in 6th. Everyone else is doing 80, so I didn't stay there long. It gets some chatter in the gearbox doing that, but I don't really understand why you'd want to do it that way. I'll NEVER ride it like that, I downshift to keep the revs at 3000 or better anyway except to take off from a stop. Even so, it still pulled fine, except for the chattering. Trying the same thing in 5th, it was better, but again, some chatter as it loaded the engine a lot. From 3000 rpm, it pulls like a freight train. What else do you want from it? Keep in mind, this bike has NO tuning yet. K&N air filter from about 350 miles, I have 11,000 now. Real world riding, I'll be in the 2500-8000 rpm range and it makes more than enough juice to make me smile. 7500 rpm in 3rd, whack the throttle and it comes up in the front. No clutch, no yanking on the bars. Just slid my butt back on the seat, twist it to the stop and up it goes. For the rest of you guys with the positive emails, thank you very much. Yep, it's been fun, glad I could make it easier on those who wish to succeed in getting a little more thump out of their 1125, but needed just a bit of documentation. | ||
| Easyrider |
Do it in 4th gear, the run you wil make at 69TPS is showing you the best how in the lower RPM and gears the exhaust will deliver the power not AT WOT so make one at 69 TPS ALSO in 4th gear. It gives you 2 advanced too do that, Look at THE AF values if you measure them and see what the fuel is doing there (is say fix that) When you do that in 6th I agree with you, But you drive there in 1,2,3, with slow traffic .... It's up too you, but it gives a much better picture about how the exhaust is performing.. Something like this  | ||
| Cafefun |
Every dyno run I have done is always 4the gear as well. | ||
| T_man |
Easy - how can he verify he is exactly at 69TPS? Can you run the 1125 while in diagnostic mode to view the TPS (steady wrist required too!) ? If so - I didn't know that. Look forward to seeing the charts! | ||
| Easyrider |
T-Man.. I never used the diagmode, maybe it is possible.. With a sw tool that reads the TPS signal.. I am not allowed (-: to use the name of the sw tool but it is made for programming the XB.. It still reeds the sw signal also out of the 1125 series | ||
| Blackflash |
ecm spy will work to watch rpm tps all that. | ||
| Milleniumx1 |
I'm taking two things from this thread. One, D_adams is willing to put it on a dyno, even though his butt dyno (which I tend to subscribe to myself) is positive. Two, Blackflash, and perhaps others, failed to get good results, which clearly means that D_adams is destined to fail. Did I get that right  Mike |
