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Augustus74
| | Posted on Saturday, October 31, 2009 - 01:59 am: | 
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That was it Mndwgz! Sorry. |
Cyclonedon
| | Posted on Saturday, October 31, 2009 - 02:10 am: |
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One reason I have stayed out of "HD owns this" "HD is going to do that" comments is because NONE of US have ANY idea what is going to happen, what has actually been done, or where it will lead.
the real problem is that Harley-Davidson doesn't have ANY idea either. Their totally CLUELESS! |
Fmaxwell
| | Posted on Saturday, October 31, 2009 - 01:04 pm: |
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"the real problem is that Harley-Davidson doesn't have ANY idea either. Their totally CLUELESS!"
HD knows exactly what will happen because they own the Buell Motorcycle Company division of HD: The Buell Motorcycle Company will no longer produce motorcycles. HD will continue to supply parts and service for Buell motorcycles through the HD dealer network for 7-10 years (minimum) unless HD goes bankrupt first. End of story.
Take it from someone old and jaded because I've seen this kind of thing before. A company gets shut down and the fans of the company's products concoct all kinds of wild fantasy scenarios involving the owners reversing their decision, the product line being sold to some other company that restarts production, fans of the brand manufacturing the products in a massive effort that, mysteriously, doesn't involve any lawsuits for patent, trademark, or copyright infringement. It doesn't happen.
The only possible positive thing that HD *might* do is sell or license the Buell patents to some other company -- and even that seems unlikely. |
Sburns2421
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 03, 2009 - 10:02 pm: |
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It wouldn't surprise me if Bombardier exchanges Buell for some of the millions Harley owes them for the remaining years if the Hellicon engine. A few days before the complete closure of Buell (12/18/09?), Harley announces how they have reached a deal to "save" Buell and its workers buy selling it instead of closing it.
On the other hand Harley usually displays such arrogance with PR they probably really will kill off Buell and then have the audacity to introduce some "XR1200 Supersport" BS model and say that it is for sport riding.
Expect MV to also have a rough 2010, if they too are not killed off... |
Greenflash
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 04, 2009 - 12:53 am: |
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Regarding the other V-twin options out there competing with the 1125's ;
I believe the flagship Aprilia models will be V4s going forward. The RSV4 version of the Tuono naked bike has been announced, and the RSV4 should replace the v-twin Mille and Tuono. The lower end V-twin Mana and Shiver, etc bikes should remain. MV Agustas are inline 4s, not twins.
That leaves only the KTM RC8 and of course the Ducatis as the 1125's V-twin competition. I think there was plenty of room in the market, but what do I know!
See the latest (Dec) Sport Rider for a test of the 1125CR with the $16K Ducati Streetfighter. The Buell wins on ergos and streetability, only 2 HP down on power, loses out on styling. It's an impressive review for the 1125, but too little, too late is the unfortunate story on positive media coverage. |
Fmaxwell
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 04, 2009 - 12:19 pm: |
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Did you see the Sport Rider article's dyno plot? Even though the 1125R was still pulling strong, they cut the plot well short of its 10,500rpm redline -- just as the Ducati Streetfighter's power falls off a cliff.
I guess Ducati uses smaller horses since they rate the engine 9hp stronger and it only dynos 2hp stronger. |
Fmaxwell
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 04, 2009 - 12:25 pm: |
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"Expect MV to also have a rough 2010, if they too are not killed off..."
The smartest thing that Harley could do at this point is bundle the Buell patents and designs, including the 1125R/CR, with MV Agusta and offer it for sale as a package. That gives MV Agusta some much-needed tech to make it appealing for a buyer while giving Harley some ROI on Buell.
Of course, that would require that Harley be smart and forward thinking -- so it's really just a fantasy. |
Sportster_mann
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 04, 2009 - 04:37 pm: |
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MV Augusta will be able to stand on its own - their new/revised line are getting good reviews.
And as for Harley Davidson having a change of heart about Buell - well it could happen:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8341485.stm |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 04, 2009 - 05:09 pm: |
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Near as I can tell, the MV Agusta business model involves "find new person to buy you and pay off 30 million in debt and back taxes, then run up the next 30 million in debt and back taxes. Repeat." |
Fmaxwell
| | Posted on Friday, November 06, 2009 - 01:04 pm: |
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"MV Augusta will be able to stand on its own - their new/revised line are getting good reviews."
Not suggesting that they can't stand on their own -- just that it would be a much more attractive package to a buyer to get MV as well as the Buell patents.
That said, there's more to remaining in business than good product reviews. For MV to be successful, the buying public has to be convinced that MV is on solid financial ground -- which they are not given HD's financial woes. There needs to be a dealer network that can sell and service them. And there has to be a compelling reason for someone to choose an MV over a Ducati, Aprilia, Triumph, or other large competing brand. Exclusivity is great, but you don't get to be a huge company by selling exclusivity.  |
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