| Author | Message | ||
     Reepicheep |
Jbot... that would be a reasonable position, but it is flat out wrong. We look at it from the sponsors perspective. A real bummer to pay the money to keep the place running, only to have that money used to provide bandwidth for competitors that don't care about the brand and don't care about the board to undercut your prices. Lots of different ways to do it, but the way we do it here is that if a vendor isn't a sponsor here, please don't promote them here. | ||
| Fmaxwell |
So if we find an HD/Buell dealer that is offering a super closeout sale, we are not to mention it here? | ||
| Augustus74 |
So aren't most of the "i paid this much $ for my bike" threads doing the same thing? Not all of the dealers mentioned are sponsors here! | ||
| Speedy818 |
EDIT: I see the Blake agrees with me.... link gone. (Message edited by Speedy818 on October 28, 2009) | ||
| Thejuicer |
Thanks Lime, picked up a hoodie and a couple shirts my local dealer didnt have. | ||
| P_squared |
I did tell Gotlime how to remove the link. I did say why it was uncool to post the link. I understand finding a good deal & wanting to share the info with others. There are better ways to do that without violating the rules. I get that some folks don't see an issue with this type of behavior. I also get that some folks don't like being told they are wrong in public. Now if everyone is done getting p!$$ed off at me, I'd like someone to explain to me what exactly is wrong about asking the sponsors here if they can meet or beat a deal you find somewhere else? Obviously, some folks believe that should be communicated to them directly, but barring those who don't mind actually asking, what's the beef with giving the BWB sponsors a chance at our business? Or am I just being a "buzzkill" again? Meh. | ||
| Fmaxwell |
Now if everyone is done getting p!$$ed off at me, I'd like someone to explain to me what exactly is wrong about asking the sponsors here if they can meet or beat a deal you find somewhere else? Because mentioning a deal from a non-sponsor is a violation of the Badweb rules. (And I don't think that many Badweb sponsors are interested in matching prices that we are not even allowed to link to.) | ||
| Kevin_stevens |
Jbot... that would be a reasonable position, but it is flat out wrong. We look at it from the sponsors perspective. A real bummer to pay the money to keep the place running, only to have that money used to provide bandwidth for competitors that don't care about the brand and don't care about the board to undercut your prices. Lots of different ways to do it, but the way we do it here is that if a vendor isn't a sponsor here, please don't promote them here. Well, at least that's clear - that you don't look at it from the board users' perspective. You can run the board however you want, of course. But, just as feedback, there's no way in hell that I'm going to find a closeout sale by anyone, and then go around asking other vendors to match that price. First, I don't have the time. Second, I personally feel it's damned rude to ask someone to match a hugely discounted closeout price. Third, I would assume that if a vendor were *having* a sale and/or willing to match such a discount that they would have their own flyer up - here, on the site, where I would have seen it already. So the net effect is that nobody benefits. The site sponsors don't benefit, because I'm not going to pay $50 for a Buell shirt. The other vendor doesn't benefit from my ten bucks. The other users here don't benefit from the option to buy a $10 Buell shirt because they never learn about it. And therefore badweatherbikers doesn't benefit because one more piece of information helpful to Buell owners doesn't circulate. So you might want to sit down and figure out exactly why you think this policy is such a good thing, and where it's likely to take you. I normally look to site sponsors first for items, but this is kind of ridiculous. KeS Oh, by the way, WRT the oil filter thread - I've found a common source for the 1125 filters at half the price of the Harley part. Sorry I can't tell anyone about it. | ||
| Fmaxwell |
I understand that Badweb is privately owned and how it is run is up to the owners. That said, if Badweb is becoming so sponsor-centric that users cannot even share information about closeout deals on soon-to-be-unavailable Buell branded merchandise, then I will be spending more time on competing Buell forums. I urge the owners to consider a more moderate policy that considers the best interests of users as well as advertisers. There is a big difference between a commercial ad by a non-sponsoring business and a post by a Badweb user telling others about a deal on remaining Buell products. Otherwise, be consistent: Go back through the messages and purge all references to bargains offered by non-sponsoring dealers. Specifically, go through the "Post up if you picked up a buell since 10/15" and delete all references to pricing at dealers who don't sponsor Badweb. Then go through and delete all posts that praise the service from dealers who compete with Badweb sponsors. I think that you will see that this will cripple the forums. | ||
| P_squared |
There's no reason you can't PM/call/email a sponsor and say, "Hey, I found a dealer who's selling product XYZ for $5.00. Any chance I can get it for the same price or better from you?" They'll either say yes or no. I'm pretty sure they won't be mad at you for asking. I'm pretty sure most would actually welcome the chance for them to earn some business from you. As for posting non-sponsor information here, there's obviously some shades of gray in how best to approach the situation in every case. When in doubt though, it's not that hard to PM one of the custodians & ask if you can post some, all or none of the details. For those who are too busy to ask the sponsors directly, or ask via an open post in Quickboard, where are you finding the time to keep this thread alive? | ||
| Kevin_stevens |
Yes, there's no reason I can't. I am reporting the reality that I won't. (shrug) You said you wanted to know why. I told you why. Now you're arguing that I have the "wrong" reason. I'm done. KeS (Message edited by kevin_stevens on October 28, 2009) | ||
| P_squared |
Got it. You want the info delivered to you. I don't think the software here really makes it easy for the Sponsors to do that here though. I believe that's why they usually post up their deals on the Quickboard. That's why I keep saying to post there & ask. If you don't want to, that's your decision & it's not my place to tell you otherwise. Have a good night. | ||
| Fmaxwell |
There's no reason you can't PM/call/email a sponsor and say, "Hey, I found a dealer who's selling product XYZ for $5.00. Any chance I can get it for the same price or better from you?" And what would the chance be that picking three random sponsors would have resulted in any of them saying that they would meet or beat a price of $29.99 on a $95 jacket? And if I did take the time to do that and then found that the dealer offering the $29.99 deal sold out in the mean time, were you going to give me the $65 difference? Sometimes you simply have to move quickly or miss out on a deal. For those who are too busy to ask the sponsors directly, or ask via an open post in Quickboard, where are you finding the time to keep this thread alive? There's no time-pressure involved with discussing something. There is a lot of time pressure when you're looking at a closeout at over 65% off on something from a soon to be out of business manufacturer. Got it. You want the info delivered to you. Correct. Just like Bass Pro Shops, Surplus Computers, Arlington Mazda, Cox Communications, Mac Mall, and dozens more did today. I don't think the software here really makes it easy for the Sponsors to do that here though. Then that sounds like something that they need to discuss with the Badweb owners. I'd be happy to accept e-mail ads from Badweb sponsors. I'd welcome them, in fact. I'd be happy to be able to do a search of all of the Badweb sponsors for a given part number. But I'm not here to go on an Easter egg hunt. | ||
| Cafefun |
Have any board sponsors seen this thread and if so they could have linked out to the blowout sale and then posted on here if they could match those prices. Right? just my 2Cents. With the rash of new Buell owners on here maybe they should run some specials on items most guys would buy. like Exhaust and parts like that. | ||
| Sparropie |
So how much does it cost to keep the BadWeb up? How much do 'sponsers' pay for this captive audience? Is the BadWeb 'for profit'? What about good-old American competition? I guess it's your ball, and you can take it home whenever you want.  | ||
| Oddball |
A huge drop like, the above referred too, is highly unlikely to be matched. More likely to just upset the sponsor by asking him to 'cut his wrists' matching such a price. Along with the standard we have to make a profit, kids to feed etc etc. That is understood by all. Dealers make their judgments on prices to offer, buyers on what they'll bite on. If the place is just getting rid of stuff it will clear quick then the market is back in the sponsor's hands. 10% or maybe 20% you might get matching but asking 65%, doubtful. Compared to full list many of those prices are great. I Like the quality of clothes at the hd/buell dealers. I like some of the styles. I just, like many, gag on $60 shirts where I'm a walking billboard. I'm fine with promoting and showing love of the brand(s) just not going to spend a fortune doing it. I encourage (sponsor) dealers to make their prices broadly known. Especially any sales. I'll certainly take a look for anything that interests me. | ||
| Fmaxwell |
I'd still like some consistency. Going through the threads that have new posts since last night, I find: 1. Links to ebay and non-sponsors that offer aftermarket oil filters (at much cheaper prices than the sponsors sell Buell oil filters for). 2. Recommendations of HD/Buell dealers for bike purchases even though those dealers that are not Badweb sponsors. 3. A post about a cheap steering damper on ebay, complete with ebay item number. 4. An entire thread about great a certain non-sponsoring Texas HD dealership is. 5. Blake prohibiting group buys of custom, made-to-order rearsets even though no sponsors of Badweb offer 1125 rearsets. Reepicheep wrote: "if a vendor isn't a sponsor here, please don't promote them here." That's pretty clear and it's devastating. Unless the vendors are Badweb sponsors, we can't tell each other about closeout deals on helmets, custom CNC fabrication services, great ceramic header coating services and prices, sport bike tire sales, motorcycle luggage sold only by JC Whitney that works well, or even great little local shops that went the extra mile for us. | ||
| Red93stang |
U guys are beating a dead horse!!! Thats the problem with capitalism and socialistic views!!!!!! Get over it! This is a perfect example of what actually happened to BMC. | ||
| Fmaxwell |
Oddball wrote: A huge drop like, the above referred too, is highly unlikely to be matched. More likely to just upset the sponsor by asking him to 'cut his wrists' matching such a price. Badweb rules prohibit us from mentioning sales like this one, thus sparing the sponsors from being asked to match the prices. Red93stang wrote: Thats the problem with capitalism and socialistic views!!!!!! No, this is the problem with capitalism without free speech. In order for capitalism to function, there has to be a free flow of information in the marketplace about offerings from all vendors, not just those who paid to be excluded from a gag order. Note: I fully support the rights of the owners of Badweb to set and enforce whatever rules they deem appropriate. This is their property to do with as they please. I am just expressing my concerns about the effect of one of those rules. (Message edited by fmaxwell on October 29, 2009) | ||
| Chadhargis |
One thing that is missing in this thread is what can be done behind the scenes. If you are looking for something in particular, you can post up and ask that someone PM you if they know where you can get a deal on something. As far as I know, PMs aren't monitored, and I'm sure there are a number of people here who would be more than happy to share some knowledge of a non-sponsor resource. I asked such a question and got several PMs on the topic. You have to dance with the one that brung ya, and the sponsors are who pay for this site. If you don't cater to them, they might not sponsor anymore and BadWeb will be no more. | ||
| Fmaxwell |
You have to dance with the one that brung ya, and the sponsors are who pay for this site. If you don't cater to them, they might not sponsor anymore and BadWeb will be no more. I would be willing to pay a subscription fee for access to a Badweb free speech "Deals" forum in which we could share information about all deals and arrange group buys, regardless of whether the vendors in were sponsors. Badweb has a huge amount of traffic and every sponsor has banner ads and can post information about their products in the forums. That's a tremendous benefit of sponsoring and I don't think that they would stop sponsoring just because individuals could mention occasional deals offered by their competitors. | ||
| Xbniner |
I'm going to make myself unpopular here and play devil's advocate. So these sponsors pay for this site and the terrible outdated technology that makes it hard for them to email us all good deals from their inventory? And search and archive functions you need a PhD to run? The reason I come here is for the expertise, mentorship, stories and experiences of the other members and motorcyclists who are more experienced and wise than I, such as Court. And sponsors who are always actively engaging us and working on a relationship with the Buell community, such as Fat bastard and Al from American Sport Bike. I understand that these guys are a hard to find commodity and a real benefit to the Buell community, but that we also need the guys who write a check to run a banner ad and never show up here again. But a site can't run on sponsors alone. You need people to show up and help each other out too. You have a unique opportunity to make this a lasting community and the place to come for all things Buell. There are a lot of new Buell owners who have seen the light and we all need BadWeb more than ever from here on out. I'll start it off. I'm looking for a good deal on a Buell leather jacket. I'll wait three days before even looking anywhere else. I'm all yours sponsors. | ||
| Red93stang |
Totally agree! If u have a good product and it's reasonably priced people will buy sponsored or not. | ||
| P_squared |
Folks, there's a lot of "gray" in what is/isn't acceptable when it comes to posting info here on deals for "everyone's benefit." Save everyone the headache & just ask a custodian what level of detail is acceptable in a new thread if you’re enthusiastic over spreading news on a “great deal” you came across and you’re unsure of what is/isn’t acceptable. Nothing is stopping anyone from using the PM function on spreading the word of something privately. As for asking the sponsors what deals they might currently have, you're better off to post on the Quickboard than here IMO. They get more traffic there. The rules/policy are what they are. They haven’t changed in years. The only variable has been the level of enforcement which is directly related to the # of posts/posters vs. custodians paying attention. Since 10/15, the # of posts/posters has gone up significantly while the # of custodians has remained the same. I’ve never seen a problem with folks posting links to tire blowouts from CycleGear like their Pirelli yearly deal. I’ve never seen a problem with folks posting links to items that are presented as informational & sponsors aren’t likely to carry. E.g. Ccryder’s 1125RT project & links. The group buy deal can get touchy depending upon the item & vendors involved. In the case of the rearsets for the 1125R/CR, it’s already been pointed out how to proceed with a sponsor who has done this type of thing before. Anytime someone posts a link to a direct competitor of the sponsors, there has been problems. Every single time. As for those who want the information delivered to them, might I recommend visiting their sites & signing up for email notifications if they offer them? Final thing, if you don’t like the rules & their subsequent enforcement, you have a couple options available: 1) Make a reasonable suggestion to Blake on what you would like changed & how that benefits BWB. 2) Don’t play in the sandbox. | ||
| Kevin_stevens |
So, once again, "No". I'm not going to frigging send a mesage to a custodian (of which you are not one, correct?) every time I want to notify other Buell owners of where they can get oil filters; or close-out specials; or, apparently based on the rearsets - any other commercial item that MIGHT be offered by a sponsor but isn't. I'm not going to do it. That's what's called a fully moderated forum, and they don't exist because nobody can stand them. I'm just - not going to post. (shrug) Given the responses in the last few days -- of which the custodians say "don't have time to explain" -- why *would* I think I could post Cycle Gear tire sales? Why would I think I could post sales about tires that NO Badweather sponsor even offers? I can't post about rearsets that no Badweather sponsor offers - or even has a competitive product to - because NONE EXIST! The logical extension is that the *only* products that can be mentioned are those currently offered by a sponsor. And even then, P2's remarks (which I have no idea of the authority of) imply that I should be contacting all the OTHER sponsors to see if they'll beat that price first. And, as I've alluded to in the post above, P2, if you're NOT a "custodian", I'd personally appreciate it if you'd quit saying what's "wrong", and the "right" way to do things, or at least caveat them as your personal opinion. Because your posts come across like you're a policy enforcer around here. KeS | ||
| Cafefun |
+1 | ||
| P_squared |
Actually, Trojan does offer rearsets. They are a sponsor. So does Twin Motorcycles. They are also a sponsor. American Sport Bike, also a sponsor, carries Woodcraft products. It seems logical to route a group buy for Woodcraft rearsets through them. If you don’t like that for whatever reason, not my problem. As for you not liking it when someone who isn't a custodian tells you what's "right" or "wrong" seems to me like it's a personal problem on your end. If you don't like it, not my problem. If it really peeves you, let the custodians know. Maybe I'll get banned. A lot of folks in this thread seem to think I'm a "buzzkill" with a "holier than thou" attitude. What you neglect to notice is that I've thrown out suggestions, pointed out the rules & given my opinions on how you can work within those rules to meet your stated goal(s). If you don't like that, again, not my problem. | ||
| Cafefun |
On a side not I did order a sweatshirt and a shirt for my wife from Barnett how could I not for those prices! I atleast went and asked my local dealer first if they could match that price on the swaetshirt said I would even go 10 higher as that was what shipping would be abd they said no. | ||
| Rkc00 |
Blake, What will it cost me to be a member here for a year to get rid of this sponsorship BS? Please let me know. Also what are the costs to be a sponsor per month/year? Mike Long Island, NY 09 XB12X Red/Black 09 1125CR Black | ||
| Speedy818 |
I think that's what everyone is hot about. Is this site supposed to be for the benefit of all Buell riders? Or an exclusive advertising platform for vendors at the expense of free speech? P^2 - if we all were to take your advice to heart, as so many others have stated - the end result is that nobody's going to post anything, and we're all just going to go to another forum. If I know that BWB is censoring purchase information for the benefit of the vendors (who I already do purchase quite a bit from), trust me, I'm not going to buy anything from anybody on here anymore without thoroughly checking it out elsewhere first, most likely resulting in fewer sales for sponsors. To me, and again, I'm not a chief here... there's a huge difference between "promoting" someone - with multiple posts, signatures, etc. and just telling everyone they can buy a TShirt someplace. In the end though - I do respect your passion for the rules, I think you are just slightly delusional about 1) the amount of work people are willing to put in to save a few bucks and 2) the importance of saving the sponsors' exclusivity in the face of a fire sale someplace else. As a small business owner myself - I loathe being asked to cut my prices below my costs simply because a competitor with a completely different price structure does themselves. My prices are my prices and I spend an inordinate amount of time detirmining them. Why should I have to sell at a loss? If I always have a fair price, then nobody thinks they're getting a better deal than someone else (as your comments now make me think that if our sponsors here already give a discount, and there's still room for negotiation, that I'm probably getting screwed). Probably going to keep that in mind every time I order now. Just something to ponder. (Message edited by speedy818 on October 29, 2009) |
