| Author | Message | ||
     Redscuell |
I'm on my way home from doing the Superbike School, Level One, at Phillip Island; and now on the internet while the dealer replaces the tyres at 16,500 kms on the clock (scheduled) and the front rotor (warranty). Excellent teaching, excellent experience given. I learned some new and useful info, and had some info I'd developed on my own that was confirmed. The R performed excellently, as did all my mods. Looking back on it, I didn't wish my windscreen was lower (it's the Zero touring screen) at any time; the GPR damper on a street setting was excellent; my lowered seat a dream; which begs the question, why were all these simple items left off the factory bike in the first place. Funny, though; despite a claim by someone on here, beyond the first of 5 track sessions not once did Steve, the principal of the Australian arm of the school, tell us not to use the rear brake when riding; and we were going flat out to the best of our ability. Hmmmm, that someone was full of sh**, it seems. Also could see why a racer would want more power than the R gives out, at least on this course. The Jap fours were passing me at speed on the track's single straightaway (this is Australia's superbike championships' track), but dogging it in the corners once they were ahead, where I didn't want to pass them. That made for some annoyingly slow corners for the R when I was behind them. The relative slowness in the straight might just be a v-twin thing, as the Ducs weren't keeping up with the Japs there, either. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
KEEP you old tires and show us your chicken strips...my guess is that they are still there...and you are still an idiot. Why on earth would you choose to ride a world class track on your worn out, squared off rubber? Any normal person would have swapped tires BEFORE the track day...saving the new rubber for the commuting?  (Message edited by fresnobuell on September 08, 2009) | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Who the hell goes in for "scheduled" tire changes? That's absurd. And to claim over 10,000 miles on the rear tire is even more absurd. Matter of fact, if they were shot, it's pretty bad they even let you on the track. Surprised principal Steve didn't catch that in tech. You going with Pirellis? | ||
| Xl1200r |
I am absolutely average in height and I find the seat height of the R about perfect. I've only ridden an R once, but enough people rave about the wind management that I think the factory did their homework on that. I did put a higher screen on my Firebolt and liked it, though it didn't look nearly as good which could have been a factor in the design. I've also never felt the need for a damper, street or track, but that's just me. I know how it can be getting stuck behind slower riders in the good parts of the track. My first track day was at NJMP Lightning course, which has a great "bowl" in it. That was the only real turn I felt comfortable passing in, only because it was so long and so stable - aside from that, I had to wait for the front straight or a very slight curve to make a pass. Otherwise, I was behind people just plain parking it in the turns. As far as the rear brake, I only use it when the bike is upright. I've heard from enough folks not to use it cranked over unless I was very skilled, which I don't think I am, so I just go with it. | ||
| Ron_luning |
You know, it seemed like you were trying to turn over a new leaf and refrained from being an ass. Apparently not. Maybe the seat height designed for a toddler fits you just fine but for anyone that is not an Oompa-Loompa, a taller seat permits adequate legroom. If you have any skill on a motorcycle, you don't need 2 feet flat on the ground whenever you stop to keep from falling over. Just the toes on one side can work (most people do that all the time on a dirtbike). So try and see things from the perspective of a manufacturer that has to design a product around the majority of the non-pygmy human race when you question why it was made a certain way. And no, being slow in a straight line does not depend on engine configuration per se. It has to do with ultimate power output, traction, aerodynamics, and the ability to accelerate to top speed quickly. I thought that Fresno was harsh in your last post with the photos of your bike, but now I see that I was wrong. The bike does look good, but it is owned by a clown. Judging by the looks of those tires, if you were held up by the riders on Japanese bikes in the corners they must have been going backwards. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
This is the same guy that was going to sue Buell for putting out an mal-designed sportbike (or some BS to that effect.) (Message edited by fresnobuell on September 08, 2009) | ||
| R2s |
About the rear brake, you did say level 1. That's not exactly advanced riding techniques they are gonna show you there. They are just gonna be giving more basic instruction to keep the inexperienced safe on their first track outing. About the power on the straights, its all about the drive out of the corners. I've passed guys on japanese bikes in the straights on my 70hp SV650S. Hay wait its japanese too. The seat and the wind screen. Whatever works for ya. | ||
| Chadhargis |
If you want to pass a faster bike that's "parking" it in the corners, you need to set them up. Hang back a bit so when they grab a big handful of brake before the turn, you slip past them and get the line going in. | ||
| Jaimec |
Look, racers use the rear brake. Get over it. With the fanaticism racers have over unsprung weight, and weight in general, do you REALLY think they'd mount a rear brake that they never used, or hardly ever used?? They use BOTH brakes. Anyone saying different is talking out of their ass. | ||
| Jdugger |
Jamiec, The really fast guys don't use the rear brake for braking... that's more the point. At optimum braking, the rear wheel isn't on the ground, making the rear brake useless for shedding speed. Watch almost any professional race and going into the slow corners or coming off a fast straight, the rear end is hopping and wagging around like a happy dog's tail. The rear brake does absolutely nothing in this application. Using the rear brake at mere mortal skill levels makes the bike less stable because the rear wheel is no longer rotating providing gyroscopic stability, but also increasing the odds of a low side when the rear tire lands and must come up to speed in turn-in. Yes, some racers do use the rear brake for things like deliberately managing rear slides. There's probably some other techniques in play that I'll never even understand, much less be able to use. But, those guys aren't doing laps at public track days. The VAST majority of fast track day riders and club racers are going to tell you to focus your skills on the front brake. If for no other reason than the rear brake doesn't add much in terms of stopping power, but does tend to unsettle the bike going into a corner. The other MAJOR thing a rear brake provides is some hope of keeping it up in the event you go into the grass or have a front brake fade out. That alone is worth keeping it around, and probably one of the major reasons most race orgs require them to pass tech. For what it's worth, I've seen a lot of mountain bike rear brake calipers on race bikes... they weigh less, work about as well given what the bike is being used for, and pass tech... | ||
| No_rice |
The R performed excellently, as did all my mods. Looking back on it, I didn't wish my windscreen was lower (it's the Zero touring screen) at any time; the GPR damper on a street setting was excellent; my lowered seat a dream; which begs the question, why were all these simple items left off the factory bike in the first place. they didnt put the touring windscreen on it because it wasnt designed to be a touring bike. yes it can be one, but so can a blast. on top of that its just ugly. they didnt put a steering dampner on it because its not needed. i am not the fastest guy on the track, but apparently im sure not slow. i ride hard on the street and the track, and have never felt the urge to put a dampner on. maybe i just keep better control of my bike, or maybe its all that time i have spent teaching myself to ride smoother and make nice fluid movements, but it doesnt seem to get out of hand in basically any situation. as for a lower seat, i doubt they needed one. i may be a little tall 6'1" but im not really tall, and my knees are fairly bent with both feet flat on the ground. so see now that would have sucked for me if it was lower.} as for power, its got a decent amount. and a good rider will make use of all of that power EVERYWHERE on the track, THEN need more. be the fastest guy through the corner, then worry about if they can catch you on the straights. most of the time they cant. and in all honesty, most of the time you can walk past them on the straights also. its fun being the only stock street trim bike, getting thrown into the advanced class midway through the day, and out running all but a couple people out there, on a set of shot tires and brakes. makes for a hairy ride though! power slides are awesome...! the 1125 is alot faster then you let it be, its alot faster then i let it be also. | ||
| Jaimec |
So then why bother to put a rear brake on the bikes of the "really fast guys?" Funny, I've seen Rossi's bike (is there anyone faster than him) and every year it's had a rear brake.  That is a STEEL rotor back there, which implies it doesn't heat up enough to put a carbon rotor, but they still feel it is important enough to add the additional weight of that steel rotor, along with the caliper and plumbing. (Message edited by jaimec on September 09, 2009) | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Jaime, try reading a bit. I don't think anyone is saying the top pros don't use the rear brake to manage rear tire slides. The point is 99% of people that ride on a track aren't at the level of backing the bike into a corner--hence the usefulness of the rear brake goes down dramatically. also, the rear has a purpose in off-track excursions and wheelie control at tracks that aren't flat. | ||
| Jdugger |
> So then why bother to put a rear brake on the bikes of the "really fast guys?" Funny, I've seen Rossi's bike (is there anyone faster than him) and every year it's had a rear brake. There's a couple of different interviews and even a Yamaha track day techniques video with Rossi where he talks about using the rear brake to manage drifting/sliding into corners. But, he's not using it for braking. Again, wheelie control and off-track excursions are also places the rear brake is particularly useful. But seriously, work on your front brake skill. Using the back brake to slow the bike is not the fastest way around the track. | ||
| Jdugger |
Here's a Rossi video talking about the rear brake (#4), among other things. Personally, I think this bit of advice does not belong in a video aimed and track first-timers, but as you can see, he's not using the rear brake for slowing the bike. The whole video is a dang good watch, honestly. Pay close attention to #3. They go into depth about setting speed. http://www.ebike-ridingtips.co.uk/video.php | ||
| Redscuell |
"You know, it seemed like you were trying to turn over a new leaf and refrained from being an ass." Hey, I'm just trying to get the best results out of the bike I'm saddled with. Kind of like you, trying to do the best you can with the weak brain God gave you. "Who the hell goes in for "scheduled" tire changes?" What I meant was, I had scheduled the tyre change because the tyres were ready to be replaced. Are you really that stupid? Look, chaps, I'm the one who LIKES the rear brake; so hopefully you haven't misunderstood that it was a DIFFERENT ass who claimed on the Board that CSS teaches NEVER using the rear brake. You can tell who it was, by her immediate attack on my posting. BTW, my rear pads had to be changed at 16,500; so I use the rear brake. And I think I got it RIGHT by waiting until AFTER the school to change tyres. Yes, indeedy, saving them for the commuting 'cause that's what I use my R for. My point about the tall screen (some of you seem to be thinking that it being CALLED a 'touring' screen means that's all its for; maybe they'd sell more to folks like you if they called it a 'superbike' screen or some such bull) is that the buffeting in the straight (starting at what I think was about 150kph) was so heavy I was glad to have the protection; and in the corners I never even noticed it was there so it wasn't too tall. (Message edited by redscuell on September 09, 2009) (Message edited by redscuell on September 09, 2009) | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Tires--You are probably the only person on Earth that would take CCS at a world class venue on shot tires that you changed immediately AFTERWARD. And then to state that you needed the new rubber for the commuting!!! You claim you got 10,000 miles out of the first set and you are worried about mileage on the new set!?!??! Talk about all wrong. Rear brake--Read a little closer...only one other person is saying the rear brake is worth a darn at our skill levels. Using your rear brake all the time isn't some badge of honor.. CSS on rear brake--As far as the CSS comment, I wrote that Keith Code via TOTW II (written by Code) stated using the rear brake is largely unproductive and in many cases dangerous. I did not make any claims about what is taught at the CSS. Get it right. I also question the quality of the CSS you took. Letting someone on the track with tires in that condition speaks volumes IMO. | ||
| Xl1200r |
If you wear out the same section of tire tread on the track as you do during your commute, you're doing it wrong. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
"Who the hell goes in for "scheduled" tire changes?" What I meant was, I had scheduled the tyre change because the tyres were ready to be replaced. Are you really that stupid? and now on the internet while the dealer replaces the tyres at 16,500 kms on the clock (scheduled) and the front rotor (warranty) So you did not schedule the rotor replacement with the dealer? You went in for a "scheduled" tire change and you got the "warranty" work done on the spot? Wow. You have an awesome dealer if that is the case. | ||
| Redscuell |
Fresno, the only thing that speaks volumes is your ill-informed statements: you haven't even seen my tyres, and yet you've decided that they shouldn't have been on a track. But then you've never let a few facts get in the way of your opinions. BTW, haven't you ever wondered how I deduced you're a girl? That's right, 'deduced'. Look it up before you pull the trigger with another ill-considered response. This could be fun; you obviously only lurk here to attack others. And there are several of you who deliberately misconstrue my posts for your own aggrandisement. I don't take it personally; it reflects on you, not me. | ||
| Redscuell |
"You went in for a "scheduled" tire change and you got the "warranty" work done on the spot?" Hence the word 'scheduled': the tyre change was made when the rotor and pads were finally available; and after the school. Even the tyres had to be brought in to coincide. It's called planning; you should try it. | ||
| Ron_luning |
Is Harlan a female name in Australia? It is not in the US. But then again we foolishly refer to tomato sauce as "ketchup". | ||
| Redscuell |
"Is Harlan a female name in Australia?" Must be in America, though. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Fresno, the only thing that speaks volumes is your ill-informed statements: you haven't even seen my tyres, and yet you've decided that they shouldn't have been on a track. Remember this? Your words. Your picture. I don't have to make things up for you to look like an ass. You do a fine job yourself. Pics at 16,000 km, which is 10,000 miles.  (Message edited by fresnobuell on September 10, 2009) | ||
| Pizzaboy |
wow look at those chicken strips!!! | ||
| Fresnobuell |
It's pretty lame to call me a girl. That is grade school stuff and shows that you have nothing of substance to bring. | ||
| Jdugger |
> claimed on the Board that CSS teaches NEVER using the rear brake. Red, The coaches at CSS won't tell you to use the rear brake for slowing the bike. They may NOT tell you NOT to use it, but that's just because they have decided to focus on other issues first. I spend some time helping riders around the local tracks and working on track skills. They are very different than street skills, as you know. A lot of times I see problems that I know need to be fixed, but I won't mention them because they aren't major issues (yet), and there are more pressing problems to correct first. Experience tells me to only attempt to work on one new skill at a time. I think you need to explore the possibility you are so slow and so novice that fixing your use of the rear brake wasn't the most important thing to do that day. I realize those are commuter tires you have posted up a picture of, but I've seen *cruisers* with more shoulder wear than that. Yea, I know tires and knee pucks never tell the whole story but in your case it's pretty obvious. You are all but stopping to put the kickstand down when you go around a bend. Did you do the CSS bike camera? That's included in the 2-day camps. Post up your video. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
so you pulled a track day with worn out rubber. a worn out rear brake and a front rotor that was defective? how did you get past the tech inspection? | ||
| Redscuell |
Hey, this is kind of cool: I have a stalker. I feel like George Clooney: "Nice tie", fresno. Anyway, having been advised that, sight unseen by fresno, I have had square tyres, I eagerly checked out the pics I took just before the tyres were swapped for new. Dammit, they were round! Here are pics, tho. Guess I need to learn more from you lot about doing burnouts, so my tyres will wear out quicker.  Not having a new set of tyres to measure before-and-after, I took the indicated measurements so I could compare the old tyres' condition when the new ones were fitted. Looks like I was down to half tread in the centre; OMG. I might have to sue the state of Victoria, tho, for making the freeways so straight and unbanked. I really should be able to get right over on the sidewalls throughout my entire commute, don't you think, so I'd get more use out of my tyres? By the way, final mileage was 16,600 km at the tyre change, including, let's see, 8 laps x 4+ km per lap x 4 sessions -- about 130 km on the tyres' sides at speeds reaching 150 kph. Track grip was excellent! | ||
| Zac4mac |
I don't know about y'all, but I'd pee myself with joy to get a tire to last that long. I don't get to play twisties as often as I'd like, maybe I can get a mountain ride in tomorrow. That's not heavily worn on the sidewalls, but it doesn't look like virgin rubber either. Red's within 1/4 inch of the knife-edge. Better than the 1 inch strip I saw on a Duc 1098 that was almost ready to show cord in the center.. but he had the slipper clutch. Today I quieted my Drummer a bit, got a dyno run finally and pulled some fuel when I found out my A/F is at 12.4:1. Guess I can't jump on the dogpile. Sorry Red. Zack |
