| Author | Message | ||
     Pizzaboy |
as far as the terms of engine modifications possible to the helicon engine that we'll definitely see in the furure; think of the 08/09 model year 1125's just as the 95/96 S2's used an untouched-from-the-source motor put into a buell bike. the S2's came with bone stock sportster motors, minus a little intake and exhaust trickery... 2 years later they came out with the 'lightning' then the carb'd thunderstorm, then the injected thunderstorm, then the XB thunderstorm both 983 and 1203 versions. 10 years later, buell had reworked the internals on that platform to increase engine output from 77hp to well over 100hp with buttloads of internal configurations that had only 2 displacements from the factory. now take the 1125 engine. in 08 and 09 it was untouched by buell. they took the engine in stock form and put it in their chassis.... 2 years later??? 5 years later???10 years later...... you get the picture. you can bet your as$ that us 08/09 1125 owners will reap the benefits of what the 5 years from now bikes will have to offer us in terms of goodies for the internals. i chuckled when i read 'adding weight reduced components'... it seems like the 1125 at the moment doesnt have a flywheel its so light and easy revving... what in the world will they do next!!! im looking forward to the fun. | ||
| Americanmadexb |
Man, and to think, all they did was add an R! | ||
| M1combat |
I just want to know what it'll rev to... Anony? A ballpark? PLEASE  | ||
| Fast1075 |
The pneumatic system takes the place of traditional valvesprings...there are still cams that open the valves...the pneumatic pressure closes the valves... This accomplishes two things...it eliminates the weight of the springs...but more importantly you can't break air...I don't know about bikes with airspring technology...but an F1 car takes a long time to start up...and has more electrical, electronic and pneumatic lines and cables hooked up prestart than a patient in intensive care. Pneumatic systems have come and gone with more or less success several times...current technology was developed in F1 auto racing and is trickling down. GM and Daimler experimented with direct electronic control of the valves...but nothing had or has come of it that I am aware of...the technology was not good enough to control the valvetrain at high rpm. | ||
| Clarkjw |
Blake, honda was the LAST factory to incorporate pneumatic valves, at the demands of nicky hayden in mid-early 2008. It is 2009. So you are 'wildly inaccurate' and should watch more MotoGP. It's fun, if you ride sportbikes  | ||
| Blake |
Interesting. I had no idea. So when Nick won the championship, he did so with conventional valve springs against all the others who were using pneumatics? Do the superbikes against which the Buell 1125RR will be competing employ pneumatic valve return? The idea that a twin cylinder literbike cannot make competitive power absent desmo or pneumatics is pure baloney. If the XBRR can put down 150 RWHP with its huge valvetrain mass and two valves per cylinder, then there is nothing to your argument. The Helicon can be and will be competitive in power in AMA SBK. That anyone would for one instant imagine that Erik Buell and his racing enthusiast associates at Buell Racing would field a racing machine that couldn't make competitive power is perplexing. BTW, where can I read about Honda being the last to incorporate pneumatic valve return in MotoGP? | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
http://www.visordown.com/motorcyclenews/view/motog p_pneumatic_valve_honda_makes_debut/4881.html Article dated in 2008 R | ||
| Fast1075 |
Remember Johnny Carson??? ....Karnak holds the sealed envelope to his forehead and says....227 hp...with a rev ceiling of 11,200... Has Karnak gone mad??? Is old Fast having a flashback???...Will Rocky save Bullwinkle?? | ||
| Blake |
Thanks CBF! Good article. I somehow missed that, even though I rarely if ever miss watching a MotoGP race. Further on the issue of valvetrain effects wrt superbike engines. It seems to me that an 1125cc (40% larger than 800cc) V-Twin using 2007 MotoGP valvetrain technology ought to be able to make 200 HP versus current MotoGP 800cc engines making around 230 HP. So with 40% more displacement the antiquated finger follower, metal-spring return valvetrain of the Buell 1125R engine ought to be able to support 15% less HP, yes? | ||
| Reepicheep |
Pardon me while I demonstrate my ignorace... I thought one of the killer aspects of the finger follower system was that it closed the valve with a cam just like it opened the valve with a cam. Guess I better head back to google... | ||
| Swampdog225 |
LiveTiming indicates that Taylor Knapp, is running 11th in practice: 1.756 seconds of of the leader Hayden. His best lap so far is 01:26.810! For those of us who care more about the racing than the rulebook, he's beating more than 2/3rd of the field in practice. People focus on this, not only is he riding the bike for the 1st time in competition, he is doing rather well. Also, lets not excuse the fact that Shawn Higbee on his 1125R is not far off of the pace either. I don't know why he's that far off of the pace. Let's hope things improve as he is only 12 laps into his practice run. GO KNAPP & HIGBEE!!!!! GO BUELL RACING!!!!! | ||
| Tpoppa |
Anyone have any details on 1125RR homologation for Am SupBike? I'm guessing the homologation was for the 1125R and the extra 'R' is considered a factory installed race kit. | ||
| Blake |
You nailed it except for the factory part. Buell Racing is akin to Ducati Corse. The 1125RR moniker being akin to the 1198R F09 | ||
| Mooner |
Haven't been on this site for quite some time, but I just had to see what the vibe was going to be on this rule-breaker. I would love to see Buell compete as much as anybody, but this is not just a modified 1125R. Well, not modified by the rule book anyway. Cams, air box, valves, etc are NOT allowed to be modified. Uh, yes they are. The cams, and valves are explicitly allowed modification. And the airbox like all other portions of the motorcycle if approved on a case by case basis by the sanctioning body ahead of time is also then allowed. Them's the rules. Blake If this were a STREET BIKE available and produced to homologation numbers, then that is fine. But it is not. Some of you guys need to get over the brand bigotry. This reminds me what is going on with government right now. As long as the rules are in your favor it is just fine that some are created "more" equally. Lets chop the highest performers at the knees, so the under performers can have a shot too. We have to make sure we have a "fair" and "diverse" "community" of racers. This whole thing makes me want to puke and doesn't do anything to serve Buell. They have been making major improvements on their own merit. Where is the drive to continue if things continue to go this way and you can have the rules changed to make things easier for you. I think I feel better now. I am not sorry if I offended anyone. (Message edited by Blake on July 17, 2009) | ||
| Tpoppa |
So is Buell Racing a separate entity? | ||
| Tpoppa |
Mooner, This is from the American Superbike rulebook: Aftermarket or modified valves, springs, retainers and other valve-train components are permitted. The original number of valves must be maintained. The original camshafts may be modified or replaced from those fitted to the homologated motorcycle. They must be approved and appear on the Eligible Equipment List. | ||
| Pariah |
Mooner, I can't wait for you to fix the world! Keep at it dude, it's obvious that you'll go far... | ||
| Reepicheep |
Mooner, don't confuse the sportbike rule book with the superbike rule book. It's an honest mistake, as the 1125R runs in both classes. The 1125RR can only run in the more liberal (not that kind of liberal ) superbike class. There isn't anything on the 1125RR that you cant buy off the shelf and put on an 1125R and pass superbike tech inspection with. It's all squarely within the rules. If it's brand bigotry, it's because the import fans are somehow outraged that everyone else got bored to tears with their narrow little cookie cutter inline four class structures... | ||
| White79bu |
Just got back from Mid-O and Knapp is rocking it. It's nice to see the 1125r have some power. The 1125rr sounds WICKED. I hope to make it back Saturday or Sunday depending on the weather. | ||
| 01xjbuell |
Haha.... so I type for 3 minutes and everyone beats me too it.... just was posting the link to the AMA Superbike rules... nothing to see here http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=33328 (Message edited by 01xjbuell on July 17, 2009) | ||
| Bikejunky |
anyone have a link for live feed/updates for the practice times for Mid-O? | ||
| Rde48 |
http://wire.ama-cycle.org/ | ||
| Bikejunky |
Thanks! | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Only practice but Taylor is only a half second of Mladin and Pegram's times. Nice out of the box. | ||
| Mooner |
I admit, I am no expert on the rules, and there are modifications that are allowed. The way I see it, the only way to justify the legality of this bike is if all of the modifications could legally be made to the existing 1125R because this from the DMG AMA Pro Racing application form required to enter a bike in the American Superbike class: "AMA Pro American Superbike motorcycles must be street certified for use in the United States and be available at the time of competition from U.S. retail dealers. There must be sufficient quantity available such that any person wanting to buy one for racing purposes can do so in a timely fashion. ... Importation must be completed by June 1st of the current season." ...and... The motorcycle must be a 4-stroke production model with street-use certification in the United States. It will be interesting to see the full specifications and see just how much can be put on and legally pass tech inspection. From the very little we know about this bike, it ain't gonna pass. From Buell's press release we know that the airbox and intake manifold have been enlarged. From your link: (thanks by the way, apparently someone does research before posting HA!) (1) Air box must remain as originally produced by the manufacturer on the homologated motorcycle. (3) All incoming air must pass through the original, unmodified air box inlets. That right there will fail an 1125R in tech inspection. Also, The cam modifications are limited, and this was really what I was referring to. Granted we don't really know what has changed and some of this is purely speculation, but as long as we aren't following the rules anyway.... Also from RRW and the AMA rulebook: (2) Valve diameter and minimum weight, including stem, must remain as homologated. (3) Valves must remain in the same location and at the same angle as the homologated model. I promise you, I am not a Buell hater. I will admit that I do not own one, but I have come very very close to purchasing a Ulysses before I got my V-Strom and it came down to money. I could purchase the Strom used for about half that of a new Uly. I am not even a fan of inline fours! I am, however, a fan of road racing and DMG is ruining the sport in our country. It's headed towards Nascar territory and from the surface it appears that Buell/Harley is in bed with them. Oh, and thanks Pariah. When I get the world fixed, I'll remember the little people.  | ||
| Badlionsfan |
Mooner, read this. http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=3 7360 | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
That's great! Shows that the main goal of the administrators is to give the fans a good race. That's about as even handed as I could hope for! R | ||
| Mooner |
Can't say that I don't agree at least somewhat with the concept, assuming the playing field is open to all players. I do think that they are walking down a slippery slope. I realize that there is some hairsplitting with the Ducati S and particularly the R models with regards to engine modifications. But the road legal designation of that model seems to me, what differentiates it. | ||
| Avc8130 |
Why did Buell choose to make the 1125"RR" rather than just race an 1125"R" with race mods like all the other factories do? If they had done that, wouldn't all of this be moot? ac | ||
| Bcrawf68 |
Here's a picture: http://www.visordown.com/motorcyclenews/view/first _look_2010_buell_1125rr/7513.html/v/1/SP/" |
