| Author | Message | ||
     Ron_luning |
I was riding my Yamaha FZ1 to work today, traffic as usual was slowing in certain parts of the freeway. I was lane splitting (lane sharing), at what I definitely considered a safe speed. I usually keep my speed differential to what would be a brisk run so I have the ability to stop or at least slow to the speed of surrounding traffic should I need to. In other words, if traffic is going 35 mph, I try to keep it to 45 mph. So I split lanes past this Highway Patrol car this morning. Clearly his ego couldn't deal with me being such a brazen criminal, because he rushed into the shoulder to pass the car in front of him and immediately pulled me over. He wrote me a ticket saying that it was only legal to split lanes if the traffic is stopped, not when it is going 50-55 mph. That is not true, even according to the California Highway Patrol website. He didn't cite me for speeding, because I wasn't (speed limit is 65). He cited me for "unsafe speed for the conditions". That is clearly a completely subjective judgement, and I could understand if the environmental conditions were at all questionable but they were basically perfect. Anyway, my court date is in August. I intend to respectfully disagree with the Patrolman's judgement and see what the Judge thinks. Does anyone know a California Vehicle Code that applies to lane sharing? I can't find one. Has anyone successfully defended a similar citation? | ||
| Bobup |
sounds like he wrote with a "catch all" type of code.....you may not be able to win on that one, as you said "subjective judgement". see if you can find Hwyranger and pm him on it good luck bob | ||
| Doerman |
Here's what the CA motorcycle handbooks says: Lane Sharing Cars and motorcycles each need a full lane to operate safely. Lane sharing is not safe. Riding between rows of stopped or moving cars in the same lane can leave you vulnerable. A car could turn suddenly or change lanes, a door could open, or a hand could come out of a window. Discourage lane sharing by others. Keep a center position whenever drivers might be tempted to squeeze by you. Drivers are most tempted to do this: • In heavy, bumper-to-bumper traffic. • When they want to pass you. • When you are preparing to turn at an intersection. • When you are moving into an exit lane or leaving a highway Ambiguous, if you ask me. I've had CHP, sheriff and Local Police cars move over to make room for me. Go figure. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I believe that lane splitting is legal because it isn't illegal, in other words it's not addressed by the vehicle code--so I am not sure how he figures that it's only legal if "traffic is stopped." That's interesting to say the least. "Unsafe speed for the conditions" is probably the catch all violation those guys use to f*** us when we are doing stuff in the gray area that they don't approve of. Reminds me when I was weaving within my own lane (perfectly legal) and when I wasn't drunk then all of a sudden he got me going 78 mph (at no point was I even going faster than 70.) And OF COURSE he was pacing me, not radar, so it was completely a judgement call at that point. There is NOTHING worse than a dirty cop, nothing. Lane spitting is cool when cars are stopped or crawling along cause they can't make sudden lane changes at those speeds. However, it scares the crap out of me at faster speeds. (Message edited by fresnobuell on May 20, 2009) | ||
| Daggar |
In my MSF course, they said that lane sharing is legal, as long as there is a fog line, and as long as no part of your body or bike cross the line. They also said that if a LEO thinks it is unsafe, they can ticket you. | ||
| Slaughter |
At least you didn't get ticketed for illegal lane change - that's usually how I've heard folks getting popped. You can "lane share" but each time you cross the line, you have to signal.... RRRRrriiiiiiight. | ||
| Boltrider |
The CHP website used to say that lane spitting was okay so long as the motorcycle was traveling no more than 10 mph faster than traffic, and also wasn't traveling faster than the posted limit. But it does not say that anymore. It now gives no specifics and only says that it's permissible so long as it's done in a "safe and prudent manner." http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/answers.html | ||
| Slaughter |
http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/motors.html Some pics - even one of a guy lane-sharing. | ||
| Ccryder |
Ron: If you were on the 1125 he would have pulled you over to look at your Buell. That's where you went wrong today. Many "moons" ago I was driving on the 405 and traffic was mostly passing me. I had two lanes to my left that were running ~80mph and I was going 70mph. I was in a rental car. Guess who got pulled over and ticketed, ME! The Deputy dimounted walked up to my window and asked me for my license and rental contract. He knew 100% that I was not a local, and that's why I got the ticket, not the others that were going far faster than me. Bottom line, don't stand out or you are just "Bear Bait". Later Neil S. | ||
| Slaughter |
http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/answers.html Can motorcycle riders "split" lanes and ride between other vehicles? Lane splitting by motorcycles is permissible but must be done in a safe and prudent manner I'd bet that IF you can show that it was being done in "a safe and prudent manor" - he might let you go. Of course, since it's so subjective, he can also say that if the other vehicles were in motion, NO lane sharing is safe. I still say go to court, take your chances... ... I'll go google up some more. This is interesting | ||
| Kttemplar |
sounds like you got cited for the basic speed law Basic Speed Law 22350. No person shall drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable or prudent having due regard for weather, visibility, the traffic on, and the surface and width of, the highway, and in no event at a speed which endangers the safety of persons or property. Amended Ch. 252, Stats. 1963. Effective September 20, 1963. To fight this ticket, all you have to do is show that you were not endangering persons or property with the speed you were driving and that traveling at that speed while sharing a lane was prudent and reasonable. IF you have taken advanced motorcycle courses, it may help you prove that you were not traveling at an unsafe speed with the present conditions (close proximity of cars etc), because of your skill level. It will also depend upon the judge and how they view motorcycles. This is a very subjective law and it may be easy for the officer to justify their side of the story (moving cars and high rate of speed and inadequate distance between your motorcycle and the cars for safely passing). You can fight it, but it will be up to how good of a case you present vs the officers testimony. Chances are, if you do a lot of preparation for the case and present solid evidence that you were traveling at a safe speed for the conditions, you will win. The officer has many other tickets and probably only has a few short notes taken at the time of the ticket issuance. Good luck. Mike | ||
| Dynasport |
Fighting a ticket is like spitting in the wind. My daughter was ticketed for having a passenger who was not wearing a seat belt. She was pulling into her high school parking lot and they were doing a safety check. One officer was looking into the cars as they entered the parking lot and pointing out any that he determined weren't wearing their seat belts. They flagged my daughter's car. She swears her passenger was wearing his seat belt, and so did he. I believed them and we contested the ticket. In court the judge asked the young man what color shirt he had been wearing that day. He answered. His answer was different than what the officer had in his notebook and the ticket held. That was that. It would have been much easier to just pay the ticket. I told my daughter I would pay it for her. She still sticks to her guns that her passenger was seat belted. I believe the officer simply made a mistake. Bottom line though is that the officer always gets the benefit of the doubt. It will be much less of a hassle to just pay the ticket. You will end up paying it either way I imagine. | ||
| Slaughter |
... and if the officer doesn't show, you walk. | ||
| Sleez |
found this too; http://www.calhsta.org/ca_vc.htm | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I think in this day and age (unlike maybe a few years ago) of a nearly bankrupt State, it's a BIG deal if officers don't show at court. I know my last....uh....3 trips to traffic court in the last 18 months, they all showed. My last ticket put me within one ticket (point) of a suspended license. Now that scared me, so I went to the judge and begged to be allowed to take traffic school, even though I wasn't eligible. She had mercy on me and allowed me to take traffic school. It was modified slightly in that the ticket would not add to my DMV points, but the insurace company would still see it. That worked for me. | ||
| Ron_luning |
Thanks for the responses. Hopefully I can get a Judge that sees reason. Unfortunately my court date isn't until mid-August. I know that by then pretty much everyone out there is going to be sick of the idiot motorcycle riders zooming everywhere and doing stunts on the road. I wish those clowns that decide to polish off their GSXRs for 3 months a year and show their inability to use judgement or restraint would just stay home and not ruin it for everyone else. I know I'm pretty much screwed. I'm not eligible for the traffic school option because I had a speeding ticket maybe 4 or 5 months ago (that one was legit, 79 in a 65 I think). | ||
| Samcol |
To fight this ticket, all you have to do is show that you were not endangering persons or property with the speed you were driving and that traveling at that speed while sharing a lane was prudent and reasonable. Remember the days when the government was supposed to prove you were guilty instead of us proving we were innocent? Neither do I... | ||
| Hootowl |
I lived in San Diego for several years. At a BBQ I asked a local LEO about lane splitting. He said it is legal because it is not specifically illegal (as was noted above) but that there were limits that if you crossed, you'd get cited for unsafe speed. Rule of thumb, traffic must be going less than half the posted limit AND under 25 MPH, whichever is less, and you can't be going faster than 10 MPH faster than traffic. By that rule, lane splitting at 50 MPH would certainly violate the unsafe speed law. The way he explained it, LEOs are just being cool when they don't ticket you for lane splitting. You cross the "that looks unsafe" line, and they'll nail you for it. Personally, I don't think lane splitting at 50 is a safe thing to do. | ||
| Krassh |
Ron I was written for unsafe speed while lane splitting years ago. Here is what I remember: 35 MPH max speed you are allowed to go. 15 MPH over the slowest lane of traffic. Which means if one lane is stopped and the other is going faster than 15 MPH you cannot split lanes. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I'm with Hoot... those sound like great rules of thumb to me. If it were me, I'd pay the ticket and slow down. | ||
| Al_lighton |
Ron, Go to TicketAssassin.com, http://www.ticketassassin.com/ From there, you'll learn how to fight this by using "trial by written declaration" and not waste your time going to court. Basically, you'll make your points in writing, and the officer is required to debate that in writing. The local police are usually not paid for the time it takes to write this. The Chippies are. They are much harder to beat. If, after doing this, you "lose", you will then learn how to request a "trial du novo" (new trial). It is worth the $25 to get the access to the TicketAssassin form letters and such. Joanne and I have each beaten tickets this way. Bottom line: write as much as possible, makes as many points as you can, it will require the officer to debate it all. If you go to court, the judge will, in most cases where the officer appears, side with the officer in the interest of expediency. You won't even be given the opportunity to present as much. This is much less the case in the written debate. Al | ||
| Al_lighton |
The guidelines Ken (Krassh) wrote are one interpretation of what is "safe", and I've heard several, right from officers that I've asked. In general, I'm much less concerned about the absolute speeds as I am the relative speeds of the adjacent vehicles. The Chippie motor cops routinely violate these speeds when they aren't lit up or responding. Given that the rules aren't absolute, I would certainly use that to my advantage in the written declaration write up. Without a set of absolute rules to go by, it is "reasonable" to use the behavior of those responsible for enforcing the unwritten rules as a guideline. My bet is that TicketAssassin has some guidelines on this. I haven't checked. Al | ||
| 1_mike |
As has been seen above...there seems to be MANY somewhat arbitrary rules of lane splitting. What's fun...is when you're driving up the road, "sharing" the road somewhat politly...then get passed by a motor officer or two....you pick up speed to tag along...going WAY to fast for the conditions, in my 23 years of using a bike for daily transportation...I've never been pulled over for doing this. And ya...they know you're there. I normally use about 60mph as my...stop the splitting speed...but I have been up to 75+...depending on traffic. I've been motioned to, told to slow down or don't go over the double line (diamond lane) by hand gestures or megaphone, but only stopped once...for for splitting the double-double yellow while sharing the diamond lane. Mike | ||
| Ron_luning |
Al, fantastic advice. I can write a novel, and I don't think this particular CHP guy can do the same. | ||
| 2008xb12scg |
Ron, I hope you fight it. You may or may not win but it's worth some time, especially if you go the letter route. Please let us know what happens. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Geez, I wish I had some of this info when I had my run of bad luck with the pigs. | ||
| Usmoto |
I think all states should have lane splitting, especially here in VA. Just plain easier to get around. I lived in Europe for a while where I was able to lane split and I absolutely loved it. | ||
| Ron_luning |
I tried registering and even paying for that ticketassassin website. No emails sent to me yet, and I've sent 2 inquiries. Hopefully it hasn't turned into a ripoff recently. | ||
| Socoken |
Is there anyplace a guy can go to find out if lane splitting is legal in his particular state? (i.e. Wisconsin) | ||
| Naiguy |
ama website. |
