| Author | Message | ||
     Bcrawf68 |
My early 08R has suspension like a buck-board wagon. Does anyone know of any alternative springs I can use instead of the stockers. As I'm really broke (IRS?), I'm hopeful to use springs from another bike, possibly an R1/R6 or CBR. | ||
| Slaughter |
How much sag do you measure at each end with the preload adjustments backed all the way out? How much compression damping do you have set in? Do you weigh less than 150 pounds? Also, it's not so much which bike you should borrow springs from, it's the spring rate and spring length that you're looking for. (Message edited by slaughter on March 16, 2009) | ||
| Ccryder |
Brian: First off, do you have it set up like it says in the manual? That is a good starting point. Next answer Steve's questions and you will have a starting point. I set mine per the manual and found it to be too harsh also. But with a few slight tweaks, mine is very compliant. Note: I weigh a bit more than the 150#'s Steve mentions so I have some room to adjust. Time2Ride. Neil S. | ||
| Rockstarblast1 |
i kinda have this issue also, but thought it was just me. i have the rear set on the 3rd knotch, and i forget where i have the front but i followed the book. and i DO weigh under 150 about 130-145?? havent weighed myself in a little while | ||
| Clarkjw |
The original manual settings are wayy off, as the springs are too stiff. Check the website for update settings and you'll be just fine. | ||
| R2s |
Well, the early 08's do have the stiffer springs. You'll have to do like ccryders said, and check the owners manual. as far as I know the owners manual that came with your bike should be correct for your spring rates. It's the shop manual that only shows the softer spring rates. so If you have the early 08 with the stiffer springs and you set it for the softer rates, "WATCH OUT". I think the cut off was June of 08. So check your owners manual and adjust to your weight or one step lighter. If it still is to stiff you might have to get the softer springs. I actually like the stiffer springs set one step stiffer for aggressive riding and track days. | ||
| Slaughter |
Safest bet is to adjust preload so you have a "sag" of 35mm in front, 25mm in rear. Sag is the differece from the suspension "topped out" (lifted up for full extension) - this is "Zero" Sit on the bike in riding position with ALL your ridiing gear... wiggle a bit to settle the suspension - measure again. The difference is the "sag." If you CAN'T get 35mm sag in front, your fork springs ARE too stiff. (Message edited by slaughter on March 17, 2009) | ||
| Rockstarblast1 |
sounds like im going to need another person to help me with the measuring while im on the bike. or when itake it in for service in a few weeks for the first one ill tell the main buell guy to ajust it when i pick it up... when i bought the bike he told me where to set it and said if it didnt feel right he would go for a ride with me and watch how the bike acts and go from there. thehead guys owns an 08 25r and races em and knows alot.. i think he is on here i jus dont know what his name is, he mentioned this site when i got the bike but i told him i was allready on here becuase of my blast. thanks for the info all! oh yeah i believe the build date of my bike was jan 08 so its an EARLY 08 lol | ||
| Slaughter |
Yeppiree - measuring sag directly usually costs you a six-pack for two extra sets of "skilled hands." | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
Here is how you can check your front sag without an assistant. 1. put a zip tie on the chrome tube of the right front fork leg. 2. with the bike on the kick stand, standing on the right side of the bike, lean it over until the front wheel is off the ground. 3. With your right hand, push the zip tie to the top of the tube. 4. now sit on the bike with all your gear, and your feet momentarily off the ground so the front fork settles. 5. Repeat step one, and measure how far the zip tie is from the top of the chrome tube. You can check the rear single handedly, but it is a lot harder, and you need a hoist. 1. put a piece of tape on the swing arm and rear seat, one vertically above the other, at the axle and put a horizontal mark on both of them. 2. Hoist the bike so the rear wheel is off the ground. 3. measure the distance between the two marks. 4. sit on the bike, and measure the compressed distance. That is the tricky part. Using a tape measure with a tab that can go into the axle may help. If you can't get a measurement, anyone can help you, like your gf, doesn't need to be a motorcycle person. | ||
| Spectrum |
Slaughter I have some questions about the 35mm front and 25mm rear recommendations. The specs show 120mm of travel for the front and 127mm travel for the rear. You're recommendations seem out of proportion for two reasons. First your only using the upper 1/4 or less (approx) of the available travel for compression. Second the rear has more travel, but it's getting less sag. I thought you wanted the sag to be in the middle of travel range for best compliance? If your measure 35mm and 25mm sag from suspension change of bikes standing on it's own weight with no rider vs bikes standing with weight of rider and his gear, this might make sense. But if your measuring 35mm and 25mm from no weight on the suspension, seems like it's not enough sag? | ||
| Duggram |
Call Dan at Traxxion. He'll tell you the same 35 front/25 rear. Slaughter tells us that Traxxion does Higbee's suspension. They must know Buell suspension. | ||
| Spectrum |
Yeah, I'm just trying to learn and better understand the principles and why's behind suspension setup. Evidently you want more travel available for compression than rebound. Still trying to understand why so much less sag on the rear than the front though. | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
Spectrum, It's a geometrical thing. When measuring the the front sag, one measures along the line of the fork. When one measures the rear sag, it is usually measured vertically, as it is rather difficult to measure travel at the shock. Thus in the first case one is measuring the hypotenuse of a triangle, the second, one is measuring along the short leg of the triangle. OK? There is another, more important problem with setting up the rear suspension on a stock Buell, which is that the ride height can not be set independently of the preload. On real racing shocks like the Ohlins and Penske, there is independent ride height adjustment. | ||
| Rockstarblast1 |
I am so lost lol suspension always confused me. I don't really race so its not a big deal. But just normal riding is a tad rough | ||
| Bcrawf68 |
Wow! Thanks guys for your help with this. Yes, mine is an early model (Feb 08), so I do have the harder springs. I set the compliance in the front for approx 30mm and the rear shock is on the 3rd notch. The problem is that I prefer to use a bit more damping. To do this, I need softer springs. So, if anyone has changed out their stock springs on their later model 08 or 09, let me know. perhaps we can do business. | ||
| R2s |
Wow, those numbers are very interesting. I've noticed when setting to the factory settings it gives you more sag in the rear ( 25f,35r). I thought that this is to make the short wheel base and steep steering geometry more stable. Your guy said that on Higbee's bike, they are doing the opposite. Sport Rider magazine dropped the fork tubes flush with the clamps( 10mm ) and then set it to 25f,25r. I figured that they kept the ride hight similar to the factory recommended settings, but were able to stiffen up the rear at the same time. You sure you didn't get the numbers reversed, not that I would doubt what you are saying, but that would make for one nimble bike and 35mm would tend to dive a lot under hard breaking. Could you recheck that? I was thinking of trying the fork tube ride hight thing, but I have noticed on all of the pic's I've seen of the Team bikes, they have kept the stock setting on the fork tubes. I may have to rethink the direction I'm going. Very interesting stuff! | ||
| Slaughter |
35mm doesn't dive a lot under hard braking if the damping is about proper. If you really are on a track where you CAN bottom the front under hard braking - and your compression damping is set to where it is working for you, you might then need a tad more preload. Everybody puts a zip tie around a fork leg so they have a witness of how far the forks were compressed during braking. Suspension tuning is more interesting than engine tuning to my way of thinking. | ||
| Duggram |
R2, when I first started track riding the experts that rode my bike all said to lower the triple clamps, not raise them. So I have mine set so that you can see the two machined lines on the fork tube above the triple clamp. This promotes turn in. But then we ride on a tight track where speeds for me don't get over 135 so I don't need as much high speed stability (that you would get from lowering you tubes). | ||
| Duggram |
After I started using good race tires and factory race brake pads I could easily bottom my forks. Switched to much stronger springs (1.1) and they don't bottom but now they rebound too quick. Before I go on the track again I will have new cartridges that will supposedly help. | ||
| Scolly68 |
I've been wondering about the harshness n my suspension as well. I have mine set for my weight range per the manual. Build date is February 2008. Ive had several instances where ive stabbed the throttle and the back tire spin on me. The first few times it happened I blamed it on the tires still being new but Im coming up on 1000 miles now and Im starting to think my rear spring is too stiff. | ||
| Dirty_john |
must admit I have the rear set up a bit soft to improve traction. | ||
| R2s |
Slaughter, you got that right. Everyone seems so focused on HP numbers, and it all don't mean squat If you can't slow It down and get it to max lean and then get her to hook up coming out of the turn. 146hp is more than most should need. I'm still planning on putting on an exhaust, so I'm still checking that stuff out to, but it's last on my list. I'm going to fontana this weekend for the AMA races, and one thing I'm checkin out is fork tube hights. This is what I feel. It takes less movement to get it to turn in, but It take's more pressure on the bars, and you need to hold it there a little. I'm looking to lessen up the amount of pressure on the bars. Still like to know how you guys got yours set up. Lowering the clamps though don't seem like what I need. but I'm still experimenting with my setup. I love this stuff! | ||
| Duggram |
Check out the fork tube height on Eslick's bike:  | ||
| Gearhead |
Thanks for this thread, guys! My bike is an early model '08 and I always thought it was a little on the stiff side but it was correct according to the owners manual. A couple of days ago, I softened it up to the next lighter setting and what a difference! Now it feels like it should! | ||
| R2s |
Love the pic. Like they say, 1000 words, maybe more. Looks like about an inch. About 15mm more than stock. Wow! | ||
| Responsible |
Careful guys. It's a bad idea to make adjustments based on what someone else's setup 'looks' like. I'd suggest that you check into this book: http://www.bullpublishing.com/shop/item.asp?itemid =103 or a similar one. You'll figure out a lot more and will be a lot more confident in developing your own setup in the long run. | ||
| Ccryder |
The fork tube has a stop ring that keeps the forks from sliding through the top triple clamp. Ye s they can be removed but they are there for a reason. BTW don't go drawing too many conclusions b/t your forks/ triple clamps/ etc and what Eslick is running. | ||
| R2s |
Ya, thats a fact. But it does give me a direction to consider going away from what the people at Sport Rider magazine did with their setup, which was to lower the tubes by 10mm instead of raising them by 15. This is a setup difference of about an inch in front ride hight, and both had bikes to their liking. can this bike be that stable. thats plain scary. When you make any suspension changes you are to do it in small increments, and only do 1 thing at a time so you will know its results. No, you see I was under the impression that with a short wheel base and steeper steering head angle you would not want to go any lower in front, or higher in the rear in FEAR that you will make the bike less stable, and it should, but this pretty much shows you the limits of how far you could possibly go with it. I don't think I would ever go as far as they went with it, but I may try some setting in that direction with it, not the other (Sport Rider magazine) way. I'll more likely start with the rear ride hight anyways, seeing how I have measured more sag in the rear than the front using the manuals setting. The manual does talk about this in the section about improving handling. They also are using an Ohlins steering damper. | ||
| Responsible |
Before you jump to the conclusion that you need Eslick's setup. Are you running a set of the 'BPF' forks like his? Pete | ||
| Duggram |
Could the BPF (big piston forks) be the ones listed in the AMA special allowances list? Fork, Showa LH, future production: Buell Race Part J0122.09AZ Fork, Showa RH, future production: Buell Race Part J0121.09AZ | ||
| Duggram |
At the Higbee Racing site, he lists the front forks as "43 mm Showaź inverted BPF forks". Those aren't stock. | ||
| Ridenusa4l |
anyone have a pic of the racing exhaust??? Jake |
