| Author | Message | ||
     Fresnobuell |
Kevin, I don't understand the defensiveness and the apparent sarcasm of your post in the "technical details" thread. You have expenses and can't make the pipe for free, that's no surprise. I don't think anyone here is expecting a 1125r Drummer for free or even inexpensively. I am not asking for your trade secrets or anything, but something less vague that "blood, swear & tears." Let's turn it around. You are asking customers for $1,000 of hard earned money ($1,200-$1,300 of my annual salary) without any substantial proof of the actual performance of the pipe or the affects of the pipe on the bikes' finicky fueling. Seems to me that many people are basing buying decisions on the XB Drummer, which may or may not prove true to the Drummer's effectiveness mounted on the 1125r. Not being condescending, but the 1125r is competing in an entirely different class/platform of bike from the XB--a class in which people are obsessed with performance numbers. One can't be surprised to be asked to provide solid proof of the Drummer's performance upgrade in relation to the 1125r. Hell, we can't even get basic specs like weight and dimensions of the Drummer. The only Dyno info has been provided by someone who reported that the stock baseline run was 109HP and the Drummer run was 133HP. Later it was revealed that the best stock run was 116HP and the typical Drummer run was in the 124HP range. Why did he feel he had the slant the original figures? Personally, i am looking forward to someone who will post credible dyno info--not present the worst of the stocker and the best of the Drummer. I don't believe people are out of line asking for information on your product. If it is so great (and i am certainly NOT saying it's NOT an awesome pipe,) I would think that YOU would take on the dyno testing and related info in order to publish it as soon as possible. I really hope the Drummer is as good as advertised. It's my only consideration for a possible aftermarket replacement. However it is not in my nature to spend that kind of money without making sure that the investment in the product is worthwhile. I guess it's called due diligence or something like that. I will end this by saying, I have no problem buying a Drummer (at full retail price)  if it does what's advertised....and provided it's not too loud. | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
Well, then, STFU and wait for them to get out on the road. That's about your only option at this point. Let the man work! R | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Gee, raise questions and get told to shut up. Part of his R&D work in the last 6 months(you know part of the $1,000 he is asking us to pay) should have incorporated this work. Wait for testing by the first adapter guinea pigs? Wow. That's nuts. (Message edited by fresnobuell on February 26, 2009) | ||
| Kds1 |
I'm not being defensive,you saw the airfuel ratio on the dyno graph of the stock and Drummer run, whats more technical, this engine is way better than the XB motor, the FI is way better, what data extra do you need, you have to be more specific on what you need to see, is it more paper work, do you need one for your bike what do you want me to do???? Kevin | ||
| Fresnobuell |
With all due respect, the previous dyno runs are invalidated by 1) suspect dyno and 2) Buellgator's choice to present the info in the manner he did. If my name is up on the list, I'll have to respectfully pass at this time in order for the information to accumulate over the next few weeks. | ||
| Ds_tiger |
...now you did it! .....  | ||
| Kds1 |
no problem, you were never obligated to pay me a dime, the product is built, for sale and its only YOUR choice to buy what you want, I don't want to spend anyones money for them...I never ever pushed the product not once, I only made it available... Kevin www.kdfab.com | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
And it (the product) speaks for itself. In a nice basso profondo.  R | ||
| No_rice |
If my name is up on the list, I'll have to respectfully pass at this time in order for the information to accumulate over the next few weeks. dibs! sweet! im one more up on the list(assuming i was on the list behind fresno?!!! as far as the suspect dyno, you got me?. one thing i do know is i have never had the exact same reading between 2 different dynos for any bike ive ever checked. not that i do this daily though either. Paul saying his dyno always seems to read low get scrutinized and called a lie, people saying thats not the way dyno's are. but when the exhaust shootout was done and the numbers were higher for things then people thought they would be, the consensus was that it was a "happy" dyno and it reads high and no one questioned that possiability. im not sure why the first dyno sheet showed the 109 instead of the 116, but it was very quickly corrected. as in just a couple posts after that so im not worrying about it to much. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I know the important thing is the difference between the stock run and drummer run, not the absolute HP numbers. However, I have a problem with the initial "mistake" presented by Paul that indicated a 24HP increase from the Drummer. It took some people to call him out on that before he revealed the "truth." did he really think that 1) we would accept a 109HP baseline run and 2) we would accept a 24HP bump from a slip on muffler? | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
and provided it's not too loud. It's probably too loud for you- save the $1k. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
My initial reaction is that it will be too loud too, but other than some webcab audio we have heard no audio. Maybe a quiet version can be developed? | ||
| Kds1 |
the quiet version is the stocker... Kevin www.kdfab.com | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
So, Fresnobuell, if I understand correctly, what you want is some sort of certified documentation of the power production, the safety to the system wrt fueling, the methodology used in designing, testing, tuning, & fabrication, and some decibel measurement to insure it won't offend your delicate ear. All before KDFab should even start the process of manufacture and distribution. Did I miss anything? Exactly what do you want from this poor guy? Kevin doesn't owe anybody an explanation or justification for anything. Price, configuration, design, or otherwise. If you don't feel comfortable spending the money for WHATEVER reason, you would be foolish to proceed. At this point it seems that you are just arguing for the sake of the argument. Please,just let the man work, and stay tuned (pun intended) for the results. Rob | ||
| Bikejunky |
Kds1 If I may, What is your retail price for the 1125R/CR System you are offering? Is it a reasonable expectation to see and increase (strictly over stock, no matter how big or small) in performance with your exhaust system? Is it reasonable to expect that with your system, I can bolt it on and have no foreseeable problems caused by installing it on with respect to an overly lean fueling condition? Does it Sound KICK ASS like your XB systems do? Thanks | ||
| Kds1 |
thanks carbon, you took the words right off my keyboard.... bikejunky, yes it will be an increase in power sound and looks, pm ds_tiger here on the board or buellgator and they will give you all the feedback you need, if you need to ask me q's in person, call my cell# 828-381-7546 Kevin www.kdfab.com | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Uhhh..okay. Please stop trying to put words in my mouth. Of course, Kevin doesn't owe anyone an explanation. It's up to him if he wants to keep his development a big secret. It's quite possible if he divulged some of the actions behind the "blood, sweat and tears" it might add some credibility to the Drummer claims. Or just maybe take responsibilty for the dyno testing. Leaving it up to someone many states away, who obviously put it low on his priority list and ultimately chose to skew the facts via the data presentation. Now the idea is to mass produce the pipes and let the buying public do the testing. Am I missing something? Again, I am not saying the Drummer isn't all that. I am simply saying the TWO people that have a Drummer is certainly not a big enough sample to draw concrete conclusions. Again, what is wrong with some INFORMATION? That's all. Now the AFV issue is looming...an issue that is very difficult to pinpoint as facts are few and far between regarding AFV. But according to some, we should turn a blind eye to that as well. All as far as your sarcastic "delicate ear" comment, YES I would like to hear when I get older and YES I respect fellow neighbors and motorists enough to give a shit about how loud my bike is and YES it would be a great idea to do a decibel test on the pipe versus...GASP...the stocker. Imagine that--an actual reference point based in fact where someone can base a decision of something other than another person's interpretation of "loud" or "not so loud" or a crappy internet sound bite. What's wrong with that? | ||
| Slypiranna |
Just got into my email account and received the following; "You are way out of line polluting the Drummer thread. Please avoid posting any further antagonistic content there. You owe BadWeBrs, and Kevin and the folks at KD Fab a big apology. Very uncool." Sent via PM so I will not disclose the sender. So, without further explanation to THE INTENT of MY POSTS/QUESTIONS, I will simply offer you ALL my formal apology and let all else go. I truly am sorry if any of you took personal negatives of me, my words, ect... in any way. Peace and best of wishes to ALL of you involved within "this" pipe's efforts. Montgomery Markel | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Hmmmm....let me guess who sent you that. | ||
| Paint_shaker |
Fresnobuell wrote; "Leaving it up to someone many states away, who obviously put it low on his priority list and ultimately chose to skew the facts via the data presentation." 1) It's Kevin's business. It is none of our business where/ who he chooses to help in the testing of his product. 2) The facts were not deliberately "skewed". I know Paul personally and have travelled halfway across the country with him. He is not the kind of person that would do that. He would give you the shirt of his back! If you don't like the pipe, the price of the pipe or the methods used by Kevin or Paul, don't by the pipe. But there is no need to sling mud and accusations that just aren't true! That's about as nice as I can say it... (Message edited by Paint shaker on February 26, 2009) | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Say whatever you feel. If I am missing some facts here, please enlighten me. Who finds the testing of the Drummer acceptable? Paul may be a swell guy, I am sure. But his backburner treatment of the Drummer testing and then the subsequent, shall we call it an "oversight," with the resulting dyno results cast a shadow over the whole thing. 109HP stock baseline, 24HP increase from the Drummer. Who was he trying to kid? It's none of my business, true. But since when can one not express an opinion here. Isn't that what this forum is for? | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
Wasn't me, didn't do it, not into pm's if I can help it... R | ||
| Paint_shaker |
Nothing wrong with expressing an opinion, but it sounded more like you were saying someone was lying and/or deliberately providing false information. As far as the "back burner treatment", you don't know all the facts... | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
Exactly what does one have to do to qualify as a "Troll"? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll  R (Message edited by carbonbigfoot on February 26, 2009) | ||
| Ds_tiger |
Please .. make it stop....  | ||
| Boltrider |
Ds tiger, your pics are freakin' hilarious! | ||
| Buellnick |
Went to the link... no pipe for the 1125r... Where is this thing? Interested but I cant even find a picture of it... | ||
| Dbird29 |
Wait I didn't get it yet. How many Angels can dance on the head of a Drummer? If we had avatars again I suggest this for Fresonbuell:  Dude, lighten up! | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
Look in this thread... http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/437521.html?1235141338 R | ||
| Fresnobuell |
you guys are funny. amazing those that don't even own the bike in question (per profiles) chiming in with their two cents. good luck. (Message edited by fresnobuell on February 27, 2009) |
