| Author | Message | ||
     Ponti1 |
New thread to discuss the technical details of the Drummer offering for the 1125 platform. Nothing required to post here, except technical information or technical questions... | ||
| Fresnobuell |
SOrry if this has been touched on elsewhere, but does anyone know the methodology that Kevin used to develop the pipe in question? I have heard "blood, sweat and tears" but I can't recall any details. Of course, he certainly doesn't have to divulge details, but it would be interesting. | ||
| Ponti1 |
Can't hurt to ask, right? Questioning things is why this country is so great! Thanks for contributing, Fresno! More questions and more answers please! | ||
| D_adams |
As I recall, it was about a 10 second calculation in his head to arrive at the dimensions, material, etc. I'm just repeating what I read. | ||
| Ponti1 |
I can do a 10-second calculation in my head also. Depends on the calculation though, doesn't it? | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I think the 10 second calculation was to calculate the retail price. | ||
| No_rice |
you also have to figure in how long the person doing that figuring has been figuring that kind of figure. ya thats um ya something like thats what i ment lol. figure i can fit figure in a sentence more times than that? i would assume a person that does basically one particular thing everyday all day might get kind of decent at it after awhile! (Message edited by no_rice on February 26, 2009) | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Also, what exactly is the relationship between Kevin and Jerseyguy? i know Kevin fabricates the Drummer, but I am not sure how Jersey fits into the picture. | ||
| Ponti1 |
I would just like to use this thread as a facilitator for questions/answers to the Drummer pipe for the 1125 platform. No slam meant to the manufacturer or fans, and no bias toward this or other offerings. | ||
| No_rice |
im hoping that this thread can accomplish that goal Andrew. the only problem i see is that there are 2 drummer 1125 pipes running around that i know of. everyone wants answers to questions that i doubt there are 100% known answers too yet. its hard to gather all the info wanted from such a small source. | ||
| Kds1 |
so what answers do you need? why just because it takes someone 6 months to develop a pipe and me 10 seconds, its a figure of speech, pun intended for laughing, some people go all their lives doing something wrong and never gets it, some people go all their lives doing things right... Fresno, I'll build you a pipe for your price, name the figure, send me the check and it will be in the mail...I don't have a 10,000 sqft shop payment free, I don't call your workplace and tell them they should pay you less because I think I can do your job cheaper...hurry up and send the money so I can get this behind me and continue with the work at hand....the way I build pipes is different from anyone else that I know of, I never said they were the best, but they will work everyday in the realworld, not a room, and I will give anyone the best customer service there can be given...what are the questions, please ask or call me... Kevin www.kdfab.com | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
I do believe that a lot of the angst around this issue is that there is not any information out there yet! I am going to try to do my part whenever I get mine online. I have already spoken to my local dealer, and am going to do my best to get pre-install dyno #'s, immediate post #'s, and third, #'s after a few hundred miles, watching AFV's as it goes. I'm looking forward to it, and believe it or not, I'm running out of things to say! Hmmmm. That's never happened to me before! R | ||
| Clarkjw |
+1 on the customer service. I called Kevin out of the blue and he was happy to answer all my questions. Now, I don't know what's going on with the AFV's. I imagine the pipe is asking the engine for more fuel. I'm not knowlegeable, but please explain the need for extra fuell and why the readings are so vastly diff between cylinders. | ||
| Kds1 |
clark, the difference in Ds_tigers afv's were because the first time he rode it it was 70 deg and the next time he rode it was 40 deg...alot of temp change, the front is needing more fuel because the front cyl is first in airline, no matter if its watercooled or not it still radiates heat and air passing on the front cyl will make it run at a different temp than the rear, only in the real world, not in a room sitting still...what is happening is the FI is tuning for the needs that it was designed to tune for and its just doing its job, unplug the 02's and you'll have problems unless you tune the map with the correct afr at all increments, its no different than your car, put an exhaust on it and change the filter, nobody unplugs the 02's or runs out to tune it, tuning is great and its needed when its needed, just so happens sometimes its not needed, sometimes it is needed...if I built an exhaust off of a formula and a bunch of math, I can, and it will need to be tuned absolutely to run right because the ecm would never be able to keep up, hope this helps, just my point of view.... Kevin www.kdfab.com | ||
| Fresnobuell |
In deference to not derailing the original intention of this thread more than it has been already,) I have posted my response to Kevin's reply to my post in the "Drummer update" thread. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/438200.html?1235673595 | ||
| No_rice |
i posted this in another thread once my memory was jogged and thought it a bit relivent here. although it is just my here say so take it as you will. i have no facts to back it up other than my memory and my word. now, when i first got alot of seat time on the preproduction 1125's that was a specific question i asked Abe. i can not explaint to you what the heck Abe's title is at buell, but i do know he is the guy should know most every answer of a technical nature. i have spoken to him a good handful of times and am always impressed with his knowledge. anyway. one of my main questions to Abe was how adaptive this new set up would be to changes(ie. exhaust,intake,ect) and his response was that this ecm had more things it was capable of reading than we would be used to. he said it would be very adaptive to changes made to things like exhaust and such. now obviously this isnt word for word as my memory is not THAT perfect and this was in october of 07 at road america. but you get the drift. im sure there is no way anyone computer could compensate for every change you might make, but i do believe computers are plenty smart enough anymore to be made capable of adapting to some changes like exhaust. but what do i know | ||
| Fresnobuell |
This bike's main weakness always has been and continues to be the fueling. The ECM has issues handling the fueling with the stock pipe correctly, let alone aftermarket. | ||
| Ron_luning |
I'm not in the market to buy an aftermarket exhaust, but I would like to know a couple of things for general knowledge: How much does the system weigh? How much does the stock muffler weigh? Does the Drummer muffler need to be repacked like a normal fiberglass-filled muffler? Would it be offered with a natural finish on the pipe portion combined with a black muffler? Of course, everyone wants to know how much of a power improvement you can expect. Good luck finding info like that from any motorcycle exhaust manufacturer. I don't think people will stop asking about HP gain until after several customers have posted their own dyno results. Even then customers will have to present their results in great detail, and not try to skew them one way or another. | ||
| Kds1 |
Ron, its just over 10lbs the stocker is 20lbs....the packing is fiberglass but the design yields hardly any absorption and will last alot of miles, even if it needs repacking anyone can call me and it will be taken care of....the downpipe can be natural if you'd like, I just need to know before I build it...after there are more than one out there someone will have their findings.... Kevin www.kdfab.com | ||
| Dentguy |
I do believe that a lot of the angst around this issue is that there is not any information out there yet! I am going to try to do my part whenever I get mine online. I have already spoken to my local dealer, and am going to do my best to get pre-install dyno #'s, immediate post #'s, and third, #'s after a few hundred miles, watching AFV's as it goes. Finally. That's what has been asked for from the beginning. After the "shock and awe" 24HP increase post that really wasn't 24HP after all and the before and after dyno runs that were a few months, 2 track days and 600 miles apart, some more realistic before and after runs would be great. All the original numbers got moved around so much, I just don't know which ones are the real ones. Looking forward to this. | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
Just talked to the dealer again, they are good to go. I will try to do the pre and post as close together as possible, maybe even the same day if I can. Just missing one thing now....  (Is it ready yet?) R | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Oddly enough, the 10 second calculation came up with 42. | ||
| Hootowl |
That's not odd, that is the right answer...as long as the question was What do you get if you multiply six by nine? | ||
| Helicon |
uhhhhh, 54.  | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
A mouse told me the question was "How many roads must a man walk down"... R | ||
| Hootowl |
"uhhhhh, 54" You're obviously unaware of the significance of the number 42. | ||
| D_adams |
That's the answer to Life, The Universe and Everything.... 42. | ||
| Helicon |
"That's the answer to Life, The Universe and Everything.... 42." Good to know. I learn something new every day.  | ||
| Paint_shaker |
Dentguy wrote; "Finally. That's what has been asked for from the beginning. After the "shock and awe" 24HP increase post that really wasn't 24HP after all and the before and after dyno runs that were a few months, 2 track days and 600 miles apart, some more realistic before and after runs would be great. All the original numbers got moved around so much, I just don't know which ones are the real ones. Looking forward to this." The whining and b*tching is getting old... If your not happy with the process, feel free to open your bank account and design, test and produce your own product. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Since this thread has moved totally from the originator's intent, i'll chime in. Wait a second. All I have seen is a request for information, plain and simple. Anyone with a bit of intelligence would question the original HP claims from Paul. |
