| Author | Message | ||
     Mtmansl |
I have an RC51 track bike that I have been looking to replace and have it narrowed down to the 1125r and a leftover 1098. Without a full system and tuning it doesn't look like the 1125r has any more power than my RC. I am sure that it has potential, but it's been out for over a year and still nothing as far as a full exhaust. On the surface the 1125r seemed like a better deal than the 1098 but after you find that you have to go to a European Manufacturer to get reverse pattern rearsets that are expensive and won't have any availability trackside, spend $2,000 for a chain conversion and a complete lack of a full exhaust system the 1098 is seeming like a better deal. With just slip-ons and some mapping they are putting out 148 hp to the wheel and tons of options for aftermarket track parts. I'm a big fan of Eric Buell and I think the bikes are very clever but the 1125r doesn't seem to be very racer friendly. I hope that these issues are addressed as I would love to see the bike do well and really want to purchase American! Maybe I should hold off and wait another year. Am I being a pessimist here? Matthew | ||
| Choppercz |
Matthew, 2 b honest, what u r saying is totally true. There aren't a lot of aftermarket race parts and accessories for the 1125r. But after owning this bike, I can't imagine wanting another bike. It is the complete package. I am hopeful that as time goes on, the 1125r will have much more 2 offer. There are a lot of advancements out for the 1125 now, but I am optimistic that the best is yet 2 come. | ||
| Mtmansl |
I hope so! I really do like this bike and there are positives too! I like the fact that you are able to tune the ecu and Buell has some of the best contingencies out there! Matthew | ||
| M2nc |
With just slip-ons and some mapping they are putting out 148 hp to the wheel and tons of options for aftermarket track parts. I saw Dyno numbers on a race prepped 1125R that will match this statement. Not only was the peak power over 145rwhp, the torque curve was completely flat. The only modifications were a race ECM, opened up air box and slip on muffler. Taking into account Ducati's power drop from 4K-7K RPM, I would say this prepped 1125R will give any 1098 with the same modifications a run for its money. If you are licensed and racing in a series Buell has all you need to race the 1125R. | ||
| Mtmansl |
Really? Which slip on were they using? At tracks like Road America you would need power like this, at shorter tracks like Blackhawk it's not nearly as important. That is encouraging to hear! This may be a dumb question, but if Buell wants to run a belt, why can't they offer different ratios and the different length belts to go along with it? Why would you need to change the length of the swingarm? What am I missing? Matthew | ||
| 1_mike |
Mtmansl - I looked at this myself before I finally bought a CR just the other day. The belt is longer to go with the larger rear pulley...hence the longer swingarm. Why didn't they make some sort of adjustable idler pulley..don't know. Maybe their attempt to make it idiot proof..!? Didn't want people to under or over tighten the idler, then blaming Buell for short belt life..? Probably figured that racers would go for the chain. You are right, the bike..so far..it's NOT a tinkers/racers dream. And this is a pain. Being that I don't have a laptop computer or any of that other stuff like it, it'll cost me nearly a $1000 to use the only current method of remapping the stock ECM. Here's to hoping SOMEONE jumps on the easy remapping bandwagon soon Mike | ||
| M2nc |
Matt I will have to check on which muffler they were using during the dyno run but the bike is only half way ready to race. They are converting to a chain final drive and swapping suspension bits too before the beginning of the season. I do not know why Buell decided to change the swing arm of the CR, so I can not comment on it. The most impressive thing about the dyno run was 70+ftlbs of torque at the rear wheel from 4k-10.5k RPM peaking over 80ftlbs. As a reference they dynoed the bike stock at 126rwhp which shows their dyno to be pretty accurate. | ||
| Smoke |
after running with the fast guys for some time now the limiting factor is me on my 1125r. if you are racing then there is no replacement for cubic money to run with the fastest. training, schooling, equipment. i am personally content with being the first guy in the fast group that the boys moving up have to pass, but have not given up on being faster. just need more time, dedication, money. i can keep up with some 1098s, but not some other 600's and in particular a couple of 250gp 2 strokes. do you think it might be the rider? happy new year! tim | ||
| Jaimec |
I can see the original point BUT I bought the bike for the STREET, not the track. Funny, but I seem to remember that's what Erik had in mind when he built the bike, too... | ||
| M2nc |
It is true the bike is more streetable than most Super bikes, but Buells will be racing in many series in 2009. | ||
| Mtmansl |
Smoke, I am not quite sure that I understand your question? "Do you think it might be the rider?" I am looking for a bike to replace my RC51(which has been a fantastic bike) to compete in heavy twins. I obviously want to buy the best platform for the money. If I was just using this simply for a track day machine, I wouldn't get rid of my aging RC. I guess the purpose of my post was to educate myself on the potential of the 1125r and hopefully to find out things that I didn't already know about the bike. Matthew | ||
| Mtmansl |
Jaimec, I am glad that you bought the bike for the street and that you are happy you like it for that purpose. However, Buell was actually founded on a racing heritage and this is a twin sportbike which means that it was intended to be on a racetrack as well. If it was not, why would they bring in top notch riders like Jermey McWilliams to develop the bike on a racetrack? Why would they run a factory supported team in any series? Why would Buell offer great contingency money encouraging race use? BTW, where did Eric Buell state that his only intention for this bike was the street? Matthew (Message edited by mtmansl on December 31, 2008) | ||
| Jaimec |
He never said "his only intention for this bike was the street." But in interview after interview, he points out he builds sport bikes for THE STREET. That's why they have rational riding positions that don't force you into contortions, like trying to sit on an MV Agusta F4, or a Ducati 999, or any of the modern Japanese hyperbikes. As scrunched up as I was sitting on a Firebolt, it still felt more comfortable than my friend's CBR1000RR and that thing was downright PLUSH compared to another friend's Ducati 749R. Let me turn your question around: If it was meant for the track, why does it come with a belt drive? | ||
| No_rice |
well lets look at it this way. bone stock mufflered, tired, and belted 1125's are winning races against full blow race bikes. what do you think can be done with it if you start throwing a bunch of goodies like exhaust and tuning at it. id say a hell of alot. i know my 1125 will out run alot of stuff on and off of the track peak numbers say it should not. now in some instances it could be that im a better rider than the other person. in plenty of instances though i know for a fact that the other rider is very competent. (Message edited by no_rice on December 31, 2008) | ||
| Fresnobuell |
EriK | ||
| Bobup |
A question comes to mind....are you going to use it as a "Trackday" bike or actually race it? (I ask it because you didn't state it) for a Trackday bike you really don't "need" all the extras you are concerned about. for a full racer, BMC has all the parts that you are asking about...you just need to call (I forget his name but others here CAN tell you) (Message edited by bobup on December 31, 2008) | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Henry Duga | ||
| Pariah |
I've also read somewhere (and presumably the author spoke with Buell reps and Erik himself), that the 1125R is first and foremost a street bike. This is related to the idea of building from the "rider down"... concessions are made to improve ergonomics like lower footpegs and other easy-to-live-with features like a belt drive and having higher torque in the lower portion of the RPM band, maybe at the expense of peak horsepower. If you really want a competitive open class race bike, you'd want to go for maximum horsepower, even if that max lives in a narrow band beyond 12,000RPM. And that's a Japanese IL4. A V-Twin is a more livable engine, and arguably another concession for the street. Out of curiosity, does anyone know if Buell even considered an IL4 configuration for their first from-scratch engine design? Maybe it was too different for a small company to go in that direction... but Rotax makes some 4 cylinder engines (for aircraft), so you'd think it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility. Sorry to hijack... just curious, and I realize that original poster is specifically interested in twins. (Message edited by Pariah on December 31, 2008) | ||
| Mtmansl |
Pariah, Did you read my posts???? I am replacing an RC51 to compete in HEAVY TWINS, not an IL4 class!!! My choice is between a 1098 or an 1125r and am looking for the best package for this class, not all out power! Please, if you don't understand the topic, don't post. Matthew | ||
| Mtmansl |
Thank You those who are providing pertinent information related to the topic. Does anyone have the number for Henry Duga? Matthew | ||
| Pariah |
Matthew, Again, sorry... I know you're interested in twins, but I was talking about the design philosophy behind the '25R. It's my opinion that it's first a street bike. Ducati is well-known for making the rider as uncomfortable as possible, so if you want a race bike only, go with that. Go here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=896HSIZ5Qgs&feature =channel_page to see a direct comparison between the 1125R and the 1098S. You'll see that the 1098 wins for track duties, whereas the 1125R is considered the best value and most fun. Cheers, Takis | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
The 1098 design fundamentals is a race bike that is streetable. The 1125R is a street bike that can be used for racing. The trade-offs are apparent- the Ducati has a race-oriented maintenance schedule (and pricing), while the 1125 is bullet-proof Rotax (eg... the reason Aprilia chose them). Like Triumph, Buell does not build race bikes, Nor has factory race teams- but both make highly competitive race machines. It really boils down to what you are looking for- a race bike for the street, or a street bike for the track. | ||
| Pariah |
Buell Motorcycle Company, Race Contingency Department, 2799 Buell Drive, East Troy, Wisconsin 53120 Tel: (262) 642-2020 Fax: (262) 642-2030 E-mail: henry.duga@buell.com You don't have to thank me. (Message edited by Pariah on December 31, 2008) | ||
| Mtmansl |
Thanks, none the less Pariah!  (Message edited by mtmansl on December 31, 2008) | ||
| Paint_shaker |
+1 On what No_Rice said. The 1125r in stock, or near stock form is doing very well on the track. Ad to that, Buell has a rather large selection of race parts for it and you should be able to accomplish what you want with the Buell, for less money than a Ducati. | ||
| Spike |
Carlos speaks the truth. I'm familiar with the bike and I know they guys that worked on it, they're straight shooters. When the bike was stock it put down ~128hp. After the latest reflash it was down to ~117hp and the curves looked like total garbage. When the aftermarket exhaust was first installed I remember hearing that the power hadn't changed, but I didn't see a dyno chart at that point. Not long after that they started tuning with the race ECM and were able to get 139hp out of the bike. Last I heard they were up to 146hp at the wheel with very usable power all the way across the rev range. What really impresses me is that the bulk of the power seems to have come from tuning (mostly advancing the timing, apparently) and not from slapping parts on the bike. When Buell or the aftermarket starts letting us pull ~140rwhp out of street 1125Rs on a regular basis my wallet may be in serious trouble. | ||
| Khill |
Great subject and great post. There are SO many variables that come into play when it comes to riding a motorcycle on the track quickly. Sure, power is nice, but it's not the only thing; how the bike delivers the power, mapping, chassis, suspension, brakes, they all come into play. I would say it is how well the bike lets the rider ride the bike to his (or her) potential is what makes the difference. In many tests, it is not the bike with the most power that wins, more it is the bike that works the best, wins. I have ridden ALL the twins and the Buell certainly works very well. Does it have as much power as the 1098, no. Is it easier to ride quickly on out of the box, yes. As far as the street is concerned, there is no way you can ride as quick on the street as you can on the track, so pick something that you can have fun on that is comfortable as well. | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
Ken thanks for the post, it was nice to see you both on the 1125 at Infineon and in the video and also to get a chance to catch up. Since I am a little older and enjoy my ULY so much I am still hoping it won't be too long before we see this engine in a sports tourer version. The shop now has a customer who is going to go AFM racing on his 1125, so it looks like I will be getting my hands inside one soon. Hope you have a Great New Year, Terry JT&S Performance | ||
| Smoke |
matthew, that was a rhetorical question pertaining to my abilities.(or lack thereof) i would say that if you have not ridden an 1125r on a track you should sign up for an inside pass trackday and give the bike a workout on the track. are the contingencies better for Buell or Ducati? i am sure that on the Buell you will place higher than you would on the RC51. best of luck to you. tim | ||
| Mtmansl |
Buelldyno guy, AFM is very competitive and I know that there are some real quick riders competing on twins. Bud Anderson is one name that comes to mind. I will be very interested to hear your thoughts after you get to spend some time with this bike!! Matthew |
