| Author | Message | ||
     Adoogie3 |
I have a r with 6000 mi on her. Shes been a awesome purchase/ experience for my first sportbike.But the only problem that i really encountered is that the front brake feels like its warped when i stop.Well what im getting to is that it surges/pulses when i stop.Is this common with these brakes or is it just the stock pads. I notice the little blue spots in between the cross drillings heat spots.I dont think ive been very hard on the brakes either .My rears are shot and my fronts are at 70%. If i upgrade to a more abrasive pad maybe a ebc will this go away ?Im just thinking that these pads are organic and leaving pad on the rotor?Anyone else have this problem? | ||
| No_rice |
the deposit thing seems to happen on the xb's with the stock pads. most people switch to lrb or ebc's and that cleans up the rotors as well as doesnt leave the deposits anymore. those deposits have been associated a warped rotor feeling. havent heard to much about it on 1125's, but it could be easy enough since you say you have deposits on the rotors | ||
| Sruzhyo |
Hey man, a problem often run into and easily fixed. Run her to up to freeway speed a couple times and then brake smoothly but firmly down to close to idle. The brake pads, as they wear, will often build up some crud on the rotors. All you need to do is just wear that ish off, and she'll be fine again. Oh, and apparently you need to chill out on the back brake  | ||
| Trojan |
Stock Buell pads don't seem top improve, despite this being a well known and well documented problem going right back to the 2002 XB models. Clean the disc with some solvent based brake cleaner and a Scotchbrite pad, then change brake pads to some decent sintered items such as SBS or Braking (I'm sure others make them but we know these are excellent). You'll probably find them cheaper than the stock pads and braking will be improved too. Don't be tempted to use race spec pads on the street. They take a long time to get up to operating temperature and can be scary if you need to brake hard in the first 5-10 minutes of a ride. Once up to temperature they need to stay 'in the zone' or braking will once again get worse. | ||
| Ponti1 |
Anyone have part numbers for the Lyndall's pads for 1125R? I checked their website, but only tubers and XBs are listed. | ||
| Jlnance |
As others have said, this is a common problem, and easily fixed. The brake pads leave deposits on the rotor, causing it to pulse when you apply the brakes. Different pads help a lot. Most people go with the Lyndal Gold Plus pads, but I am not sure if those are available for the 8 piston caliper the 1125 uses. If you call Al at American Sport Bike, he can help you select pads. As Trojan mentions, you can clean the deposits off the rotors. I did that this past weekend, when I changed pads, and it made a HUGE difference. I just used some 220 grit sand paper and spent 5 minutes sanding the rotor. I left it on the bike, you just have to roll it once so you can get the part behind the caliper. I didn't sand much, I don't even think you can tell by looking at the rotor that I did anything. But the pulsing was completely gone when I took it out for a test ride. I don't think new pads alone can make that happen instantaneously. If you're wearing out your rear pads before your front ones, you might find you get better results from using more front brake. Not only will you stop faster, but there is some indication that these deposits build up faster when you use the brakes gingerly. Stopping hard seems to keep the rotor clean. | ||
| Jpfive |
Your rears are probably OK. There is not much meat on them anyway, as I discovered when I replaced mine. They looked pretty thin at 8000 miles, even though I don't use them that much. Compare to the new pads, they were about 1/2 gone, and evenly worn. Compared to the front, the new rear pads look thin even now - and they don't have the wear groove for perspective. As far as the fronts go, changing to EBC pads won't make the pulsing go away by itself - at least it didn't for me. Periodic cleaning of the disc will probably do the trick. My permanent solution was to replace the front disc with the wave rotor that Trojan sells. A pricey bit, but it performs admirably - and the pulsing is gone. Jack | ||
| Jaimec |
The Lyndalls are now available for the ZTL2. Go check American Sport Bike and you'll see. I haven't noticed the pulsing (yet), but I don't have 1,000 miles on my 1125R yet either. The Lyndalls certainly made a HUGE improvement on the XB12Ss when I had that bike. | ||
| Jaimec |
Lyndall Brake Pads for the ZTL2 brake. | ||
| Jmr1283 |
you cant rule out a warped rotor, check it while there | ||
| Blublak |
I too have noticed some 'fade' and a bit of build up on my 1125's front rotor. The 'fade' is more of a softening of the front brake response under hard use (track day). As I understand it, there is a new pad compound coming for '09 and should help address that 'wear/fade' feeling from the fronts under harder use. It seems (maybe?) that the '08 pads were more in line with cold use and as they heat up seem to loose a little something. Also, someone reminded me recently, since the 1125s' put out more power, our speeds are higher then on the XBs' and this will also contribute to the feeling of not stopping as surely, since we have to increase our braking distances for the higher velocity of travel. As for the discoloration on the rotor, like folks have said, a little cleaning will take care of that and you may want to look into using the front a bit more. I know I'm really kind of light on the fronts myself and need to work on getting more into it sooner to improve my braking. I'm sure the folks that designed the system know what they are doing, ZTL has been around for a while and all the niggling things are or have been looked at already. Lastly, if you really are warping your rotor (a host of race bikes had this problem early on) and want a fix, they now have a 6mm race rotor you could use that will help prevent the warping. Although it doesn't sound like you're putting that much heat into it, so as stated above, the likely culprit is a build up of material from the pads. Harder braking after a cleaning will help make that go away. | ||
| Jaimec |
They may be faster BUT on the street (at least) we probably aren't going any faster than we did on our XBs. AND the brakes on an 1125R slow down less mass than the brakes on an XB too... | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I must need to bleed my rear brake, cause mine are near worthless. | ||
| Jmr1283 |
fresnobuell- mine also dont do anything. I think i need to adjust it some. itll hit the stop far before it seems like it should. but ive put it off because i never use it unless goin really slow, through parkin lots while turnin | ||
| Redscuell |
"there is a new pad compound coming for '09 and should help address that 'wear/fade' feeling from the fronts". Thank goodness; after reading this thread, which was the first I've heard of the prob on BWB, I was set to order up new pads for my yet-to-arrive 09. Based on what I've read here, I've already bought the GPR stabiliser, to ward off any handling probs at freeway speeds and prospective track days; and a second stock exhaust to alter for sound; and collected what I need for de-noiding if desireable; and a backrest bracket for a passenger backrest; and X-guard airbox; and the carbon cannister; and K&N filter (Ford style). But I'll wait and see on the brake pads for the 09! (Message edited by redscuell on November 26, 2008) | ||
| Fresnobuell |
My rear just feels soft and certainly doesn't provide much stopping power at all. Since the front is a monster, I basically don't use the rear at all. It might as well not be on the bike. My buddy bled the front (I always felt the front had some air in it) and it feels awesome now...I am thinking that I'll let him work on the rear soon. | ||
| Jaimec |
Beyond holding the bike at a stop on a hill, and tight, parking lot maneuvering, my rear brake doesn't get much use at all. I use it (along with rolling off the throttle) to start the weight transfer to the front wheel. After that, it's front brake all the way. | ||
| Adoogie3 |
You are all right about me using my rear brake too much.The only reason why i do is because the pulsing irritates me so bad.Another question.When taking off the rotor say if i want to have it reground say a couple thousandths to clean her up. Will this thing have to be indicated on the rim or is it a machined fit?give me a heads up what im getting into!! | ||
| Jaimec |
Adoogie: By not using the front brake hard you may be contributing to the problem. Use them HARD and it may help scrape the deposits off... | ||
| Eweaver |
I switched to EBC HH pads for the front, what a difference! I have been loving them since day one. They also stop well when cold (good enough for the street anyway). I never use the rear brake. I tried it twice to see what it felt like, and noticed that it locks up the rear wheel without actually stopping the bike. Which reminded me why I never use the rear brake. | ||
| Adoogie3 |
Ill try next year to use them harder and see what happens. Right now theres lake erie effect snow.The only time i can ride now is in my sleep.  | ||
| Redscuell |
eweaver, rear brakes on bikes are for 'trail braking' when white-lining through stopped traffic; and when used in combination with the fronts, increase overall braking power (that is, in real-world tests demonstrated by Honda, the bike stops in a shorter distance). When used alone the rear will lock, the tyre will slide, the rear of the bike will fishtail, and yes, the bike won't actually stop if you're really moving. But that's nothing unique to an 1125. And relying on the front only can send you flying over the front bars (haven't done it, but have seen it on Funniest Home Videos!). | ||
| Eweaver |
Redscuell, Thanks, but I am well aware of how brakes are intended to be used. My comment in regard to how the rear brake reacted was in response to those who thought the rear brake feels soft. I initially thought it was soft,then realized in my case that it's just that the rear tire is sliding without actually feeling it slide. When using the front brake to its fullest potential, the rear wheel doesn't have much stopping power at all (since it isn't touching the ground). Ask a racer how much rear brake they use. This isn't my first bike. For years I have only used the front brake. I commute through Los Angeles traffic daily, splitting lanes without even considering touching the rear brake, nor have I flown over the bars. I'm truly sorry If I took your lesson a bit personal, and I wish you a happy Thanksgiving. | ||
| Redscuell |
eweaver, no offense meant, nor taken. I'm not a racer, nor have I ever done a track day. And I'm glad you haven't gone over the fronts. My rear tyre, on the other hand, is always touching on the ground, even when braking. Perhaps that's due to a difference in our riding style. My comments were general and, though your thread initiated my comments, nevertheless they were not intended to criticise your riding style. It's not my place to do that. I DO use the rear brake, a lot, to trail brake through traffic; to the point where I wear it down twice as fast as the fronts. I ride every single day for 1 hour; and starting next week, for 2 hours. And I DO know that a bike comes to a full stop more quickly using both brakes, rather than just the fronts. Not sure there's much point in arguing the point; it's science. I expect that racers (again, I'm not one) are not on the track to come to a full stop during a race; and so would use their brakes differently to a commuter like myself. Again, I did not meant to criticise you in any way; but simply to add information when I read the comment "I never use the rear brake. I tried it twice to see what it felt like, and noticed that it locks up the rear wheel without actually stopping the bike". | ||
| Eweaver |
Redscuell, thank you for the clarification. I realize that when I said I tried the rear brake twice, I didn't specify that it was twice on the 1125, not twice in my lifetime. It also seems that you don't even have an 1125 in your possession to make an observation on. I hope your bike arrives soon. My true point is that I had bad pulsing in the front brake and deposits on the rotor that was cured by EBC HH pads. No more pulsing and the pads cleaned the deposits off my front rotor. I didn't even have to buy a new fangled rotor from across the pond. Did I mention the pads were way cheaper than the stock ones? I'm sure the Lyndall pads deliver similar results. It isn't a secret that the stock 2008 pads are crap. Brake pads have to be properly bedded in to do their job. If you don't know how, look it up, and do it. It really makes the difference. (Message edited by eweaver on November 26, 2008) | ||
| Jaimec |
FYI: Shortest stopping distances are attained when you use both brakes, and keep both wheels on the ground. It's why many modern cruisers have shorter stopping distances than modern sport bikes (don't believe me, look it up in the magazines). As to why this is so, it's the reverse of why the quickest drag strip launches are the ones with both wheels on the ground; force is being utilized only in the horizontal plane, not being divided across the horizontal AND vertical. An engineer could explain it better, but then you'd have a headache afterwards. (Message edited by Jaimec on November 26, 2008) | ||
| Fresnobuell |
And relying on the front only can send you flying over the front bars Huge myth. Like Eweaver said, when hard on the front brake, the rear wheel is practically useless as it is often nearly airborne. It also seems to me that the rear brake would be most effective when used alone as more weight would be on the rear, helping its traction & stopping ability. For me personally, leaving the rear brake out of the equation simplifies things. I can concentrate more on the multitude of other things that a rider needs process. It's just not worth the extra 5% of braking you MIGHT get from the rear, esp. when it tends to lock up so often during aggressive riding. I have even given some thought to removing the rear brake entirely. | ||
| Rfischer |
"Too much" front brake, "over the bars", and such is urban myth. If you lock the front brake, the wheel slides. If you have enough front brake to bottom the forks, the front wheel 'tucks' because the center of gravity suddenly shifts up. The 'stoppies' you see the stunt riders doing are a skilled combination of hard initial brake application with deliberate weight shift followed by brake modulation. Expert road racers sometimes apply the back brake slightly ahead of the front to settle the bike on its suspension [try it with your street bike - very noticeable]; REALLY good racers will hammer the back brake to get the back wheel to slide to square a corner so they can get back on the gas sooner ["Don't try this at home" - you will high-side unless you have Valentino Rossi-type skills]. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Expert road racers sometimes apply the back brake slightly ahead of the front to settle the bike on its suspension [try it with your street bike - very noticeable]; PLease explain this in greater detail. I have heard this many times before. Is this settling the "off the throttle" motion a rider might get when approaching a corner? Is it a momentary tap of the rear brake or does it take a longer application? Thanks. | ||
| Slypiranna |
It has been proven, countless times over, that in a panic situation (mainly on the street but also on the track) that the majority of "riders" WILL stand on the rear brake and/or lock it up in the process... A VERY rare few will even approach the limits of the front end binders...er, go over the bars from a front end lockup with traction enough to question such a kodak moment. Blame it on panic, blame it on knowledge but I don't buy it. Why? IMO, lack of actual habits being developed AND what the Majority of magazines, engineers, racers and forum posters...voice...best description, LACK of experience? Only in the right hand of a VERY well experienced/habitual rider is the front brake (and bike for that matter...as the rear tire is often a few inches off the ground under these "perfect" conditions!) the MOST important player in a critical max decel. Food for thought the next time you are in the wet/panic decel...as I'd wager a lot more riders here toe the rear brake more so than wish to admit to. I admit, I rarely use my rear brake...but perhaps I should use it more than just in a panic situation...Maybe I'll be more conditioned on how to control it. 20+ years of riding on the street and being wacked three times kinda makes you rethink a little...but this is just my opinion. Concerning the thread starter and an end to my post; ...Same deal here on my 11 w/stock pads has been as yours. Brake Kleen and coarse scotch brite keep the stocker at bay...also took apart the rotor from the wheel and cleaned/lubed the springs, shoulder bolts. Bled master...still trying to find the time for upgraded pads but the above made a marked improvement from a street standpoint. Procedures lasted about a month under severe street abuse before needing done again...I'm game for aftermarket pads and possibly aftermarket rotor for spring now...mm P.S. I won't be forgetting to upgrade the rear at the same time either! LOL!  |
