| Author | Message | ||
     Crowley |
Took my wheels off this evening to fit new tyres and found that front and rear wheel bearings are completely knackered..........and no, they weren't killed with a pressure washer  I had hoped they'd last longer than 4k+miles. Can anyone confirm the bearing code numbers as 6005-2RS and 6006-2RS Thanks  | ||
| Pariah |
You gotta quit all that stunting, dude...  | ||
| Krassh |
Do not know about the code numbers printed on the bearings but here are the part numbers from the parts book. Rear - E0005.02A8A Front - E0004.02A8A | ||
| Pariah |
Confirmed... Krassh's numbers are correct, and I can't find your 6005-2RS and 6006-2RS numbers anywhere in the 1125R parts catalog. | ||
| Tasmaniac |
I think Crowlys talking afermarket bearings best way is to hook them out and find the mfg code and cross reference them to a Timken | ||
| Spectrum |
They are standard automotive bearings. The front wheel uses size 6005 and the rear 6006. I know others that have bought Koyo 6006-2RSC3 bearings from Applied Industrial Technologies in Raleigh, NC. | ||
| Crowley |
All fitted with SKF now. I was after manufacturers codes rather than Buell part numbers. Strangely, the supplier did stock the cheapo 'Made In Taiwan' bearings  | ||
| Pariah |
So are these SKF bearings better than our stock ones? How do they compare weight-wise, out of curiosity? | ||
| Froggy |
Same bearings the XB models. | ||
| Crowley |
Strangely enough, I did weigh them and they are identical. SKF are absolute top quality bearings and come in various classes of 'fit'. The quality of the 'Made in Taiwan' bearings speaks for itself after 4k miles imho. | ||
| Argentum |
A little info about bearings, "Buell" bearings are just repackaged "aftermarket" bearings.... and on my XB9 they are std NTN bearings form factory. Sooooo....NOTHING wrong with using "aftermarket" bearings..... Buell does Don't put too much credit on the place of manufacture.... truth is that all bearing manufactures have multiple plants all around the globe. SKF make great radial ball bearings... and they have plants all over the globe making them.... including India & China. All made on SKF machines using SKF materials to stringent SKF quality control programs. The same goes for all well known manufacturers.... the only difference is the individual comany's quality control program & specifications. For proof, take a standard SKF/NTN/Fafnir radial ball bearing, remove the seals, wash out all the grease, lube with light machine oil and give them a spin by hand. Do the same thing to a NSK/Koyo bearing. You'll REALLY notice the difference. .... and be SHOCKED !!! Finding Japanese bearings that are actually made in Japan is almost an impossibility.... majority of Japanese plants manufacture solely to supply the Japanese auto(and other) industry. Years of experience & research in this area(far beyond just motorcycles) has taught me to select a brand based on bearing type & intended application. SKF & Fafnir(Timken Company) are probably the two leaders for this application..... NTN a close 3rd. Hope this helps. Steve | ||
| Court |
"Buell" bearings are just repackaged "aftermarket" bearings. The same as:
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| Crowley |
Correct. Hurley Pugh were the only vehicle manufacturers that made their own ball bearings afaik. As for the quality of the bearings that Buell bought in, well, time will tell. | ||
| Rfischer |
FYI, since these are a standard bearing specification, you can replace with ceramic ones. Most race teams do to reduce frictional losses and improve durability by eliminating the heat factor. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Steve- Interesting discussion on bearing QC you posted. A lot of Uly owners have been trying various aftermarket brands after the OEM bearings failed. Several of us went to Koyo since they're a supplier to Toyota but you're saying they may be lower quality than the NTN's? A least one Uly rider that switched to Koyos has already had a failure; none of the SKF replacements have failed AFAIK. We've also been told there's an updated OEM part for the rear wheel bearings that was released in August 2008 that's supposed to have improved seals to prevent water intrusion, which was evidently the cause of the Uly rear wheel bearing failures. AFAIK nobody's confirmed that the new parts are available. | ||
| Froggy |
Hugh, I am still trying to find a pattern, but some 09 XB's have black seals on the wheel bearings. It looks like the switch was sometime in August as all the ones i have seen with black bearings are August builds. I haven't seen any September builds to see what color they are. | ||
| Jlnance |
We've also been told there's an updated OEM part for the rear wheel bearings that was released in August 2008 Hugh, I think that Crusty asked at homecoming in July and was told it was in the works and scheduled for August. Apparently the schedule slipped, because I'm sure we would have heard about it by now if it was out. | ||
| Argentum |
A lot of Uly owners have been trying various aftermarket brands after the OEM bearings failed. Hugh, That's sounding very familiar. A few Uly guys on the Aussie buelling scene have also had premature failures. Maybe the Uly is a little harder on wheel bearings.... or....It may be a case of the environ they're subjected to.... Do you guys spend much time off the tarmac(ie dirt roads) ??? Several of us went to Koyo since they're a supplier to Toyota but you're saying they may be lower quality than the NTN's? Sorry, bad choice of words again  I shouldn't imply that they're lower quality. The materials & manufacturing quality are probably okay..... just that for this application I believe that their version of C3 internal tolerance specs are a bit loose. Also don't think that their seal design is up to the job.... mention of a water intrusion problem didn't surprise me. As for Koyo Supplying Toyota, I tend not to look at such things. Truth is that most supply contracts are awarded by corporate executives based on the best overall deal.... not just the best quality for application. (ie. $$$ + quality reputation + ability to meet demand + logistics + $$$ = Overall deal) Another point is that most of the radial ball bearings used by Toyota are in the gearbox.... enclosed environment with oil lubrication..... no seals... no water probs.... constant oil lube. Sealed bearings do it pretty tough in comparison none of the SKF replacements have failed AFAIK. That may have alot to do with the water intrusion problem. SKF have a brilliant seal design on the rear bearing. The front bearing has a different design.... still a good design but not quite as good as the rear. Generally the SKF(for this app) have "normal" clearance while most others have "greater than normal" clearance(C3) FYI, since these are a standard bearing specification, you can replace with ceramic ones. Most race teams do to reduce frictional losses and improve durability by eliminating the heat factor. I'm not sure how much the heat would factor into it.... being mounted in a large air-cooled cast aluminum housing(wheel) should be very effective at dissipating heat from the bearing.... maybe the race teams are adding that extra safety margin for race reliability... and race speeds. I could be wrong too Knowing the actual temp of the bearings after a good hard run would be interesting indeed. Out of sheer curiosity, Has anyone ever pointed an infra-red thermometer at them to check ??? | ||
| Hughlysses |
Hugh, That's sounding very familiar. A few Uly guys on the Aussie buelling scene have also had premature failures. Maybe the Uly is a little harder on wheel bearings.... or....It may be a case of the environ they're subjected to.... Do you guys spend much time off the tarmac(ie dirt roads) ??? Steve- Yes, quite a few of us occasionally ride dirt or gravel roads, but there doesn't seem to be any direct correlation between riding environment and bearing failures. The oddest thing almost universally reported is finding a substantial quantity of water in the hub of the wheel when the bearings were removed, despite never having ridden the bike in deep water or having power-washed the wheel. It's hard to imagine that THAT much water could get past the seals and through the bearings into the wheel without washing all the grease out. SKF have a brilliant seal design on the rear bearing. That's certainly good to know. It also makes sense that Buell would have gone to their supplier (NTN) and convinced them to improve their seal design. Thanks for shedding some light on what up to now has been a complete mystery. | ||
| Jlnance |
none of the SKF replacements have failed AFAIK. To be fair, the sample size is very small. Knowing the actual temp of the bearings after a good hard run would be interesting indeed. Since the swing arm serves as the oil tank, it gets surprisingly hot. It will burn if you touch it after a long ride. It would be interesting to have a real figure. | ||
| Rfischer |
Wheel bearings do in fact get hot; and frictional issues arise as they do. Hence, ceramic bearings. Ceramic bearings run truer, therefore cooler. I noticed when changing summer/winter wheel tire combos on my car - fitted with ceramic bearings by the mfr. - how smooth and freely the wheels rotate. And they are HEAVY; 60 lbs. wheel + tire. I then swapped the bearings in my '90 FXR...same result. I believe some of the Buellers who race have also fitted the ceramics. | ||
| Zac4mac |
Ceramic 6006 - http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/Kit7675 99 bucks a pop, damn. Z | ||
| Spectrum |
Hmm, don't think you would want to put an open bearings or full ceramic on a motorcycle. One of the racers can jump in, but I think stainless with ceramic balls (sealed) is what you would want. | ||
| Rfischer |
The racers I understand often run the full ceramic open style as they are regularly taking the wheels off/apart and servicing them. For street use, the sealed combo bearing is preferable. That's what I have installed and what the bearing mfr. recommends. | ||
| Argentum |
CERAMIC..... the new catch phrase of the bearing world. Silicon Nitride Hybrid, Full Silicon Nitride, Full Zirconia Oxide. Which one is suited to this application ? Probably the hybrid .... but compared to steel ball units, it still has a lower fracture limit just like the other two......60-70% lower. That may or may not be a factor, all depending on the abuse they get. Not a fan of full ceramics in wheels either. Full Ceramics having the ability to run at 1200degC is great..... but when does a motorcycle wheel bearing ever reach 15% of that. The ability to run light-moderate loads up to +120,000rpm is impressive..... but when does the Buell's wheels ever exceed 3000rpm Radial & Axial rigidity through the ability to run tight internal clearances is great for precision machine tools & instruments.... but totally unnecessary for a simple wheel bearing. That also ticks off one other unnecessary feature of full ceramics.... low thermal expansion. The minute difference in frictional loss between steel & ceramic means sweet FA in this application. I understand that racers will spend all sorts of money chasing split second improvements..... but I don't see that as a necessity on the road. On another note, Even though the bearing numbers correspond, that doesn't mean that the full ceramics are a direct swap for the steel units. The designed dimensions of the housing must be considered. These housings are designed & built around the idea of fitting a steel bearing with internal clearances around the Normal to C3 spec. Full Ceramics have internal clearances far tighter and therefore require a lighter interference fit. An interference fit that's too tight will compromise the bearing's life from day one. Modification of the housing is required for correct operation. Hybrids are okay for fit, as they generally come with the looser internal C3 tolerance.... same rigidity as the steel units. Cost can also be an issue. $8-$10 for steel versus $37-$60 for hybrid. With steel you can change 4-7 sets of bearings for the cost of one set of hybrids.... and with most guys in this part of the world getting +25,000miles out of the rears, that isn't really a justified cost for us. |
