| Author | Message | ||
     Cmonkey |
Re fuel smell: If I remember correctly, the potential energy in a gallon of gas is equivalent to about 22 sticks of dynamite. Even if 1/22 of a gallon of gas went to vapor (that just over half a cup) in my garage; my garage is small enough that lighting up a stick would cause some significant 'redecorating'. That being said, I can't wait to get my hands on one of these bikes!  I'll just tape up the frame, wrap the header, and enjoy the hell out of it! Please, no one blow up their house till I get one. | ||
| Blake |
Sly, Interesting and thoughtful post. Thank you for that. I agree that if copious amounts of gasoline fumes are being expelled from the fuel tank, that could be dangerous and is certainly undesirable. I also agree that Buell should be applying the insulating/reflective barrier on the insides of all their motorcycle frames. I've stated that very opinion before concerning the Buell XB models. Chromed header-pipes may not look good to some, but they don't radiate much heat. A possible solution to that issue, if it is one--I'm not at all convinced that it is-- might be to find a different finish that won't radiate heat, maybe just a little polishing? As to the risk of the muffler igniting gasoline. There is none that I can foresee. I would happily and eagerly warrant that the Buell mufflers won't ignite gasoline. Buell already does warrant as much and has done so for over a decade as all their twin cylinder motorcycles have the fuel vent/overflow draining right onto the top of the muffler. If the muffler's external surface was ever to reach far enough above 500o, the temperature required to ignite gasoline, the cylinder heads would likely have melted off the bike. To illustrate the point further, please consider which is hotter, the combustion chamber's cylinder head surfaces and exhaust valve(s) or the external muffler surface? If you are worried about the surface of the muffler igniting fuel, please explain how the fuel entering the combustion chamber doesn't instantly ignite, instead requiring a direct spark to instigate combustion? Is the external surface of the muffler likely to ever get hotter than the surface of the exhaust valve? BTW, it takes a LOT of heat to boil off a significant amount of gasoline. I just don't see it happening. I think what some are intepreting as gasoline vapor may actually include a lot of hot air. I could be wrong. It doesn't take much unleaded gasoline at all to fill a room full of its stink. Bottom line for all: If your 1125R is filling your garage with gasoline fumes or otherwise venting copious amounts of gasoline vapor, it is not operating properly. In that case please immediately notify your delearship and prepare to take your 1125R to your dealer and have it checked out ASAP! Don't ride it any more until the problem is resolved! (Message edited by blake on April 26, 2008) | ||
| Slypiranna |
Blake, You are welcome to come tune/diagnois with me anytime and warrant that I cannot get a muffler or exhaust system cherry red!  Seen it countless times/engines and for many reasons and I assure you that it is well over 500'F for this bright glowing to happen. Fact. You have to look from the perspective that I am, nothing is impossible given the right conditions...or wrong in this case example. An engineer should not ASSUME anything when the end user WILL likely help cause something unexpected outside of the design box. Any thing marketed today should be done so with safe redundancies built within their design criteria. If you have in fact advised or recommended insulation being added to the XB models in the past I would be very curious to know why this was not addressed? Cylinder heads/jugs can and do survive on many (not all) situations that egt's go out the roof. Fact. Again, after what I've seen some folks do...and what engine's partial failures/electical and mechanical mishaps cause, I would NOT warrant such an accident as impossible to happen. But you are welcome anytime just the same to come and work with me! Just don't forget your checkbook! Bottom line for all: Same as what Blake said in the end. | ||
| Brad1445 |
An engineer should not ASSUME anything when the end user WILL likely help cause something unexpected outside of the design box. ________________________________ You must be talking about my friend that at the local dirt/street track bought race fuel for his two stroke, he got his exhaust to glow bright red,} | ||
| Ski25r |
I have been doing much research on fuel additives. I am sad to say a 5% - 10% oxygenated additives can reduce petrol boiling point dramatically (by as much as 20 degrees F). As of 2004 the federal government requires a percentage of oxygenated additives to meet environmental needs. Fuel companies are using these additives to increase their Octane rating and to meet federal and additional individual state regulations. These additives when boiling as a whole in petrol are lighter than the actual gasoline it boils with. Due to the makeup it bonds with heavier gas. As was pointed out to me earlier, the fuel system is open. Fuel additives have a more pungent or stronger smell than what we are used to from traditional petrol. Does it mean more gas by volume is venting from the 1125R tank or is it just our senses causing an illusion? It’s like equating noise from a vehicle with a speed you perceive it is traveling. I am in no way saying fumes from anything are acceptable. You expect it from a Classic Car but not from a new motorcycle. I personally think fuel boiling that cannot be explained by a mechanical problem can only be a petrol problem. Please feel free to educate me further… | ||
| Blake |
I said "muffler", not "exhaust system." Are you now contending that the fuel tank vent will put gasoline onto the headers? Repeat: Every Buell twin I know vents the fuel tank directly onto the muffler. If Buell is comfortable warranting that situation against catastrophy, I am as well. Question: Are you contending that liquid gasoline will ignite via incidental contact with red hot metal? | ||
| Bigblock |
Question: are you implying that it is NOT dangerous for liquid gasoline to contact red hot metal?!?!?!? One little static spark... | ||
| Court |
I'm sorry to report that Blake, who was consumed by flame in an industrial experiment today, will be unable to respond. | ||
| Spectrum |
 Thanks for the humor Court! | ||
| Doerman |
Humor Humor? Who's gonna keep all us reprobates in check! | ||
| Slypiranna |
Yup, I knew better than to start this but here is where I back down. I won't go any further with the what ifs and the warrants...I also will not be ignorant enough to test this theory by throwing a dixie cup of 93 pump gas on my muff to end a disagreement of something of this sort. My original intent was to HELP those OWNERS AND OR POTENTIAL BUYERS that this thread's concerns are correctable by one means or another and to not let another runaway rumor get out that would steer that person away from this product. Most owners tinker...probably worth a poll and a new thread concerning this? So thank the pegasus for blessing us with some things to tinker with!? If every single issue surrounding every single product produced today was perfect...it might be somewhat boring in the ownership experience? Would for me... The individual separation factor would then be totally gone...just another, me too ride. Not me...and THAT IS WHY I CONVERTED FROM 20+ YEARS OF YAMAHA PRODUCTS TO BUELL! That was NOT an easy change to make but I am very glad to be on this side today. If any one of you married the perfect wife or husband, never ever argue or have issues, well, I'm happy for you. Life is usually not that way. Nor are mechanical and or electrical contraptions...or in this case, the engineering efforts put fourth into our beloved Buell 1125R. Like most any marriage is worth saving, even with issues to work out...such is my still fresh and ever interesting Buell 1125R...she keeps me mostly outta serious trouble...except here! Peace out and ride safe...m&m | ||
| Blake |
"Question: are you implying that it is NOT dangerous for liquid gasoline to contact red hot metal?!?!?!?" No. I was asking a question. I don't know what would happen. I do know that you can put a lit cigarette out in pure diesel fuel, admittedly much less volatile than gasoline. | ||
| Blake |
Court, Tell the truth. If not for Jack hiding your lighter, you would have already had your torch lit heating up some red hot metal. | ||
| Blake |
"I also will not be ignorant enough to test this theory by throwing a dixie cup of 93 pump gas on my muff to end a disagreement of something of this sort." I will. It won't ignite. My muffler doesn't get red hot nor anywhere near the required 500oF. But if you'd like to really test your theory, simply heat up a chunk of steel to red hot and use an eyedropper to safely impinge a single solitary drop of gasoline upon it. Flame or no flame? | ||
| Doerman |
I'm getting worried.. the way you guys are egging each other on with red hot iron and flammable liquids is sounding more and more like an industrial accident waiting to happen.  I really don't want to see any of you getting hurt on a dare. On a related topic. It was really hot yesterday (98F) when I rode home from AMA at Fontana in dense stop and go traffic and my bike did not blow up, boil or stink up the garage afterwards. I fully realize that some have this problem and I am not trying to dismiss it. But it is strange to me that some units exhibit the problem and other don't. Tells me it is not a generic design flaw. I'm going to throw this out again. The ONLY time I had this issue is when I had a faulty O2 sensor. Is there a clue in that? | ||
| Ponti1 |
I double dog dare someone to try the gasoline...C'mon...DO IT!!!!  | ||
| Al_lighton |
As a data point...at the O2 sensor test I did with Aaron Wilson in 2002 I think, we changed the main jet on his Mikuni equipped S1 at least twenty times. Aaron would pull the bottom jet cover off the carb, and dump a bowl full of fuel on the VERY hot header with each jet change. It would immediately evaporate upon contact with a loud hiss, but would not flash. I was surprised, I wouldn't have done it, but he said he's done it more times than you can count. Now I'm not saying to go do this test on your motorcycle, I'm just saying that it is not as easy to ignite gasoline off a hot piece of metal as you might think. Al | ||
| Xb9 |
Heat is not the same as a spark or flame. | ||
| Elvis |
Now I'm not saying to go do this test on your motorcycle, I'm just saying that it is not as easy to ignite gasoline off a hot piece of metal as you might think. I think igniting gasoline really is a lot more difficult than most people think. You need to keep the fumes very concentrated (though not too concentrated or you'll starve the oxygen - I once knew a guy who claimed you could drop a match into a gas can without worry because there wouldn't be enough oxygen to support combustion . . . and there's probably some truth to that, though my concern would be getting it past the opening). Think about all of the gas stations all across the country with all of the idiots pumping their own gas . . . yet how often do you actually hear about a gas station fire or explosion? I'll bet you right now, at this very moment, there is someone, somewhere pumping gas or filling his/her lawnmower with a cigarette dangling out of his/her mouth, and odds are that idiot will live to do the same thing another day. There's no reason to be stupid. If you're working with gasoline, make sure you've got good ventilation and make every effort to eliminate sources of ignition. . . . but there's also no reason to take fear of gasoline to the irrational levels that many people take it. | ||
| Sheridan_bueller |
I have tested the igniting gas with hot metal thing, near impossible. Gotta have a spark of some sort otherwise there would be no need for spark plugs. Let me explain...I was in my curious youth and had a full 500 gallon gas tank with which to play. It floats on a pond and will burn on the water. You can draw pictures with it in the gravel and light it for added effect (and almost get caught by Grampa). You can weld something and dunk it into a coffee can full of gas (don't remember why the coffee can was full of gas) without it doing anything other than hiss. I sure had a fun childhood! JJ | ||
| Blake |
The vast pool of practical experience and knowledge assembled here is frightening. ![: ]](http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/clipart/proud.gif) | ||
| Freezerburn |
How many times do you think gas has spilled on hot bikes at a gas station. You would not be allowed to gas your own bike up if there was any risk. There are far too many squids out there for there not to have been serious spillage on hot cylinders and headers. Of course I avoid spills just so my airbox cover doesn't get funky. | ||
| Davegess |
If ya wanna see real combustion squirt a large amount of charcoal lighter fluid on a nice hot grill. One where the coals are not red hot, just hot enough to vaporise the fluid. Then when the nice lighter fluid steam is rising over the grill toss in a match. Don't stand real close or your eyebrows will look funny. | ||
| Sheridan_bueller |
+1 Blake. I almost make it to 41, thinking I've calmed down a little....  ... Then Buell makes this crazy awesome bike we all want and need to further our experience and knowledge...  JJ | ||
| Krassh |
Do not try this at home. http://mrcaclub.ning.com/video/video/show?id=89998 7:Video:68604 | ||
| Bobup |
a Firefighter I knew years ago explained to me that you could actually put out a gasoline fire using gasoline...of course you would be foolish to ever try it.... | ||
| Chevycummins |
70 degrees today and still no boiling gas after I wrapped the exhaust manifold. I almost missed the hot frame last night when it was 39 degrees on my way home from work. The hot tank was nice for cold riding! | ||
| Bad_karma |
Did some surfing using Citgo,Chevron and Irving oil company's MSDS sheet for Regular found the data to be very similar. Chevron Citgo Irving Flash point -49f -45f -45f Auto ignition 536f 536f 495f Explosive 1.4-7% 1.4-7% 1.4-7.6% Boiling 81-428f Freezing -112f I would assume that you are going to need to suffice both the temperature and concentration levels before the fire or explosion is evident. Joe | ||
| Slypiranna |
chevycummins, Glad to hear that your frame is cool/er now! I'm convinced that this was just a heat soak issue and that insulating the primaries and or inside of the frame is the most viable answer. Thank you for posting your finds. | ||
| Blake |
"Boiling 81-428oF" A boiling point as low as "81oF"? Kinda takes the wind from the sales of all the hysteria on this issue doesn't it? "I would assume that you are going to need to suffice both the temperature and concentration levels before the fire or explosion is evident." A good assumption since the auto-ignition temperature is well above the highest boiling point. |
