| Author | Message | ||
     Cmonkey |
Just curious.... How many miles could one expect out of the rotax? I expect to take very good care of it, and maybe once or twice a year do a novice track day. Is 100k miles a reasonable expectation for a twin before I'd need to do a rebuild? dave | ||
| Baggermike |
Now that is a hard question to answer and would depend on all kinds of variables and I do not know if anyone could answer this question? it is an all new motor and if looking for the answer you probably be better to ask this on a brp-rotax bike forum from people who have been riding them for years. | ||
| Brad1445 |
Everything I have ever heard on the Rotax involves the word Bullet proof in the sentence. I would think the 100,000 miles is reasonable. | ||
| Cmonkey |
Thanks, comments on the air cooled engines are appreciated too.... If the 1125r doesn't make it into my garage, an XB9sx might be the next choice. I don't care about resale value, I plan on keeping the bikes for a really long time. I've just never had any experience with motorcycle engines over the long haul, and I'm just wondering want to expect. I outgrew my first bike fairly quickly, and just borrowed bikes since then. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I think any motorcycle will be hard pressed to make 100k miles. Thats not to say many won't, its just to say that it would be an exception when they do. Goldwings / Concourse type bikes have a better chance, because they are of the "weight is no object" category. Older BMW's (and presumably newer ones) have a better chance because they are of the "cost is no object" category. At 20k, my 9sx motor is showing no issues, which I am thrilled about. My guess is that I will make it to 50k, then probably be looking at a rebuild. The same would be true with a Japanese inline four. Except that my Buell motor will probably be much better then new after the rebuild, and my inline four motor would probably never quite be as good again. I would expect a full rebuild by a true artist in the field to be $2k to $4k. | ||
| Cutty72 |
I know of a CBR F4i that has rolled over 120K without opening the engine. Also, a RC51 that has clicked over 100K. So both V-twins and I4's are capable... but those are both Honda's. I do truly hope my 1125 will make that kind of mileage as well. | ||
| Ccryder |
Bill: From my observations over the years, motorcycles a routinely going over 100k miles, if they are water cooled and serviced on a regular basis. IMHO water cooling allows the designers to control and tighten tolerances and fits that would cause major issues in an air-cooled motor. Plus the science of metals, lubrication and, manufacturing has advanced considerably over the past 40 years. Take for example my ST1300. 20,000+ miles per year over the past four years. A compression test was done and all 4 cylinders were within 2% of each other. The valves did not need adjusting until almost 80,000 miles (they were checked every 16,000 miles). From the design of the Helicon engine I would expect something around the same mileage. It seems, at least to me, that the design is very robust and that considering the current power output levels the system is not overly stressed. There are other V-twins that produce more power but they do have issues due to the higher stress' in regards to longevity. It will be interesting to see how well this design does hold up over the long run. I'm betting at least 150k without any engine issues. Now it may be a different matter for some of the sub-systems like fuel and electrical since they are under outside influences that reduce their life. Well, that's my $0.05. I'll bet you at least one of your favorite beverages that in 5 years you and will be sitting back with a pile of data to reduce and laughing at how foolish one of us was. Time2Work. Neil S. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I'm not arguing that many bikes will make it. Many Buells will make high milage as well, there are a few here over 60k. But think about the actual bikes you have owned, or know somebody who has owned.. I am going down my "firsthand knowledge" list. 1986 Yamaha Radian (aircooled 600cc inline four). My first bike. Sold it for $1000 with about 16k miles on it. Now, were that bike to get a new clutch, new intake boots, new chain, new sprockets, a valve adjustment, and a carb rebuild (all of which I am just about positive it probably needs by now), you would be putting $1500 into a $900 bike. I doubt it has more then 22k miles on it. 2000 Kawasaki ZR7 (bullet proof inline four air cooled) Friends bike. Probably has 5k miles on it now, still on (rotting) original rubber. Owner let it sit for a whole season, which fouled up the carbs. He took it to a shop, which charged him $500 to clean the carbs, but it still runs like crap. I don't know how many miles it will accumulate before it "vanishes", but I doubt it will ever see 25k. 1986 Kawasaki KLR-250. Water cooled 250 single. In my garage as we speak. 8900 miles on the bike, its on its second motor (first one had ruined the cases from a crank bearing failure). I'll push it as far as I can, but its already on motor #2. I bought it for $500, have put about $400 into it. 2001 and 2000 Honda XR-650 (650cc single air cooled). Belongs to Neighbor, and neighbors buddy. First one made it to 13k before complete engine rebuild (was lightly raced), second one made it to 15k (never raced). 2001 Suzuki SV-650 (water cooled twin). Another good friend. I think he is up to 15k miles now, and it's running fine, but its been down a couple times and is starting to look kind of ratty. Street value is probably $2000, and dropping *fast*. Running strong, but at some point the price of replacing the whole bike is going to be less the the price of some broken thing. And he rides like a total whimp  . 2000 M2 (my old bike). 29k when I sold it, so it was doing well. Running pretty well, but was starting what could have been a base gasket leak. When you go in to replace that base gasket, you might as well do a light rebuild. 199? Honda ST1100... again neighbors buddy. 39k or something miles, before the previous owner hit a dog, looped the bike, and slid it through a fence at about 50 mph. Bought to restore, and still in a lot of pieces after discovering that prices for things like mirrors and side panels start at $150 and go up. Maybe somebody will bring it back to life... but it would be done for love and not for money. Another friend with a 2000 Harley wide glide... I think he is up to almost 6000 miles now. So at that rate, he will hit 50k sometime in the year 2030 Friend at work that sold a Honda F4i. He had it up to 35k when he sold it, still running great. The guy that bought it is afraid of it, doesnt ride it much, and doesnt ride it well. It might hit 50k, but its not getting there any time soon. Another guy at work that rides a Honda 929 (water cooled inline four). 9000 miles on it, he can't ride it well, and he is commuting on beyond bald tires in the rain... Flat and bald in the middle, untouched anywhere else. I'd be suprised if that bike still exists in 2 years, unless he sells it. Friend with a VStrom... he got about 6k miles the first year, started going through a messy divorce and was worried about riding without his head being in it, and the bike has been parked for 18 months since. Don't know if that one will come back or not either, but its now 3 years old with 6k miles on it. So I guess I should clarify, 50k is unusual for a bike, but not unprecedented, a lot will make it there. But a lot won't, and its probably the fault of the owner, not of the bike. And at 50k, all the problems with the bikes could probably be easily fixed, except that some Japanese accountant has decided to milk you to death, and except that you could buy some *other* better bike for less $$ and trouble then fixing the one in front of you. So I like the beer idea, but I think we are more or less in agreement | ||
| Cmonkey |
Thanks for all the comments! I think with good care and consistent habits, I can aim for at least 50-75k miles with some level of confidence. Guess I'll consider any mileage over 75k as gravy. I'm good to my engines. I run them hard once in a while, and keep an accelerated maintenance schedule. Part of my maintenance... the occasional kerosene flush, and a bowl of water in the vacuum line. I have an 82 4cyl that I got to 250k miles with only a few lbs difference in compression between cylinders before it died. Spun a main bearing due to a poor choice in an oil additive, so with some help I redesigned the motor. I took it from 1.8 to 2.4l. It's still going strong, but the 100 octane is killing me. | ||
| Two_buells |
my 1999 S3 Thunderbolt had 39000 miles and I had a base gasket leak. So I bought new pistons, rings, freshened up the heads with a muli angle valve job. The Shop I took the cylinders to be bored said I didn't need a full rebuild, not much ware on old pistons, rings and cylinders. I also have a Can-am Renegade four wheeler ATV with a 800cc V-Twin 4 valve per cyl. Rotax. It had 800 miles in the last year. Very hard riding, cold, mud, snow, rain, I beat the snot out of this 4x4 and everytime I changed the oil it was very clean. Very strong motor! | ||
| Citified |
These guys make private jets too.  | ||
| Two_buells |
How about the Evinrude E-Tec engines, No oil changes for the first three years! Rotax Aircraft engines: http://www.rotax-aircraft-engines.com/a_history.ht m BRP-Rotax, a subsidiary of Bombardier Recreational Products Inc., is an international market leader in the development and production of 4-stroke and advanced 2-stroke ROTAX engines for motorized recreational products like Ski-Doo and Lynx snowmobiles, Can-Am ATVs (all-terrain vehicles or quads), Sea-Doo personal watercraft and sport boats, scooters, motorcycles, karts and aircraft. The company has developed over 350 engine models for recreational vehicles and has produced more than 6 million engines over the last 50 years | ||
| Citified |
the briggs and stratton of powersports. |
