| Author | Message | ||
     No_rice |
so i finally got to play on the 1125 at march badness. it has a little over 300 miles on it now. believe me i think it is good and broken in! anyway. i had few complaints about it. no REAL problems to discuss except some slack in the driveline. and when i say some i mean plenty. i am still playing hookie from work so i dont have the parts manual here to flip through or much else for that matter. does anyone know what took the place of the primary chain in the 1125's. there has to be something doing the chains job in this motor. if this thing was my xb i would say that the chain is really in need of adjustment. it is a little un nerving in the corners. i had to learn how to make it work for now. say i am at a nice cruising pace and i let off the gas, i get a slight pause and then a clunk then the bike starts to slow down. then i tip it into a corner and as i decide its time to roll back onto the gas i get another pause where not much happens and then another clunk as the bike gives a little jerk and then starts to pick up pace again which sometimes likes to unsettle the suspension a bit. especially if that nice cruising pace has become a hard run. has anyone noticed something similar? i took my 9 out for a run up blood mountain and back down wolf pen and couldnt believe how much smoother my on off gas transition was then the 1125. that thing is adjusted correctly and even with having a primary chain i get no driveline lash. just nice smooth on and off gas response. so here i am wondering if there is any kind of adjustment for whatever is doing the primary chains job in the 1125's only other problem i had was after baha mudding the 1125 out of the back of the campground i decided to hose the thing off at the gas station. apparently even though it was raining the whole time the 1125 didnt like the fact that i got things even extra wet. my right blinker light on the dash decided it was just going to continuosly flash at me for no good reason and not shut off unless i turned the left blinker on. then if i turned it back off the right one kicked on again lol. especially funny since it was doing it in vain because i took the blinkers off along time ago... it seems to have dried out though. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Does the motor cutout? What you describe is similar to what I have experienced, except for me the motor stalls momentarily, then refires. I have been able to repeat this in one right hand freeway onramp in 3rd gear about 4,500 RPM. It is very unsettling when it happens for sure. | ||
| No_rice |
no it is still running smooth. also if you are cruising along between 3-4,000 even maybe a bit above 4000 it is pretty choppy. it acts so much like a loose primary chain its rediculous. i have noticed no problems with the motor running. no stalling or such. and it is not because the tire is spinning. yes it will spin the tire if i want it to, but it will make the noise and have the on off gas transition problem at low or high speed even with very little throttle imput. but there is a noticable clunk associated with the problem that sounds like something is loose. | ||
| Slypiranna |
300 miles is no where near broken in, in my opinion. Mine didn't even begin to feel somewhat smooth until I passed the 1500 mile mark. Anything below 3800 rpm though and there is a few quirks but nothing that a little fingering the clutch doesn't smooth out. I've been told three times now to keep it above 4k. Then, I've read about a few here that didn't have any issues what so ever even as low as 2500rpm. For what its worth, there it is. | ||
| Xb9 |
Got a lot of slop on the throttle cable adjustment? | ||
| Luisemilio25r |
I have the same problem. I noticed it since the test ride before I bought it. I thought it was normal. But now that you describe it, I starting to get concerned. When I let go of the throttle and reapply it, it makes a clunk sound like when you have a bad trans mount in a rear wheel drive vehicle. It feel like there's some play either inside the tranny. It might be the compensator or whatever is called the device that absorbs the shock when reapplying power? Please engineers, some feedback! | ||
| Baggermike |
I just went threw all the cut a way pictures everything is connected by gears so it can not be any slop like a primary chain in the xb motors, so if it is not mechanical it has to be electrical or fuel related issue. Just my 2cents. Mike | ||
| Jpfive |
I had this happen occasionally early in the break-in. I also would have to feather the clutch at lower rpm if I was having to add power mid-turn. I though it might be related to the cush drive at the front sprocket, but it seemed to disappear as the bike wore in. 2500 miles on mine now, and the problem is gone. Jack | ||
| Sycojomo |
I also have the same issue, but it seems to be disappearing as I put more mileage on the bike. Early on I told the service department about it several times and described it — "If there was primary chain..." I'm at 1200+ and it does seem a little smoother. Ran the Dragon last night with a passenger and still had some trouble in the corners... Oh yeah, the engine itself sounds and feels totally smooth. It really feels like a loose chain. But of course, there isn't one :-) Josiah (Message edited by sycojomo on March 31, 2008) | ||
| Baggermike |
I read on the buell mini site that it is suppose to be no drive line lash at all, I have not had this problem, but if I am in a corner I am around 7000 rpms, I also have almost 2000 miles on my bike. Mike | ||
| Dentguy |
Definitely get it checked out. As for driveline lash, there may not be any between the output shaft and the rear tire touching the ground as Buell says (drive line), but there will be some lash inside the trans with the gears/dog engagement. That can't be avoided. There has to be room to mesh. Sounds like you might have a problem. How does the clutch feel. I know some of the mechanical ramp style slipper clutches have a weird click that you have to get used to. Not sure about Buells set-up. (Message edited by dentguy on March 31, 2008) | ||
| Spectrum |
I have experienced some lash, but my doesn't seem anywhere near as heavy as what you describe Tim. Let us know if you find a solution or adjustment. | ||
| Saintly |
When I rode an 1125r at inside pass (@ pocono PA) this past fall, I noticed that too. It was very prominent on the one I was riding, God forbid I should let the rpms drop below 4k, then it was a herky-jerky clunk-fest. I mentioned it to the other guys that were there that day, but they just looked at me like I was nuts. I guess not all of them have that issue, but for the ones that do have it, it's really a lousy experience. | ||
| Tijuanajack |
Not sure if this helps but there is a chain that connects the dual cams above the head. From engine crank to cam gear, its like gear drive but chain from crank to crank. $.02 Toby | ||
| Bertman |
I have 2600 miles on mine and it does EXACTLY the same thing you are describing. It is a clunk-clunk sound and feel as I transition off and on the gas at low rpm's. If I shift at a low rpm and apply the gas from 3,000 rpm's it will accelerate quite smoothly on up in the powerband with no thought of lugging. But if I steady state cruise at say 3,500 rpm's around town, it clunks all over the place. It reminds me of my Firebolt that goes lean - rich - lean - rich and jerks while in open loop mode except it is 500 rpm's higher and some mechanical lash is added. | ||
| Tijuanajack |
Oh, I finally understood what you guys are talking about. It has to do with the gearing in the tranny and the duration of the cams. I wrote about that in another post, giving a example. Here it is again. I could be wrong but I think the same applies to bikes as it does for cars. If anyone is experiencing a stumble at low rpm this is somewhat normal to a degree. For those that have messed with performance engines and gearing in cars, have you noticed the same in the following example. For instance, you take a 1988 Mustang GT with a 302 and 2.72 gears, the car runs fine. But if you add a .499 lift cam and do not change the gearing, the Mustang will have a nice low lumpy idle, but will stall and stumble from idle up to 1700 rpms, if you stomp the pedal from a rolling start it will stumble until you get above 1700 rpms. But, when you install a set of 3.73 gears with that cam, you will have one wild ride and the car will not stumble. That is the begining power band of that particular camshaft. If you look at the dyno sheet you notice the 1125R's power band is above 3000rpms. Just check out the sheet under Ratbuell's post on the following link. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/323228.html If I'm wrong on my analogy please someone correct me or add to this. Toby (Message edited by tijuanajack on March 31, 2008) | ||
| Doerman |
Hi Tim FWIW..... I have an XBR9 and the 1125R. The driveline will not be as tight as it is on the XB. In the first few hundred or so, what appeared to be driveline lash has become much better. I can not tell you if that has to do with the motor breaking in or if it is related to me getting used to the 1125R. It bothered me at first but now I am completely comfortable. When I did the Inside Pass I never felt a slop in the driveline. When I got my own I thought at first there was but as miles have piled on I think it behaves just like the 1125Rs on the Inside Pass did --- just perfect. | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Tim, I've been thinking about your problem ever since we discussed it on the way home. Quick way to see how bad it is is to put the rear on stands and select each gear and move the rear wheel back andc forth. You should be able to feel any slack or slop in the drive train. Obviously you wont be able to feel "soft" cushions in the cush drive. I suppose you could have some with soft rubber. Just a thought... Brad | ||
| Bearly |
It's just the cush drive. Nothing to worry about. | ||
| Cat3 |
Don't flame me, but I thought the belt primary didn't utilize cush drive rubbers that chain primaries do? I think when I get ready to purchase my 1125R I will definitely make it a point to test ride it and pay particular attention to this issue. Charlie | ||
| Spatten1 |
No belt drive primary, just two gears meshed together. I think Harley is the only company that does not use direct gear-to-gear primaries. Like Saintly, the one I rode was horribly jerky under 4k and ran great above 4k. Felt like poor fueling to me. It had very low mileage. Now what you describe kind of sounds like the clutch is hanging up on decel and accel, or the fueling is just f-'d up. If DDFI 3 is anything like DDFI 2, it may take a while to find it's proper place in the world. I think much of the improvement with miles we keep hearing about may be related to DDFI 3 learning over time. One more thing, new MC engines are not like old American hot rods. They idle great, work smoothly at low RPM, and pull to redline flawlessly. This is expected with new bikes. Some models at low RPM they will have a slight stumble, due to lean fueling for EPA, but that is easily fixed with a little more gas. It is not an issue with cams, etc. They will make much more power at high rpm, but still run smoothly at low rpm. (Message edited by spatten1 on April 01, 2008) | ||
| Ratbuell |
Cush drive assembly is in the front belt pulley. In throttle transitions (on/off or off/on) it absorbs any additional driveline lash before it gets to the belt. The flip side of that is there is a small "neutral" spot as it transitions where you feel like you're freewheeling. C'mon folks...read your spec sheets... ;) | ||
| Baggermike |
No Rice I do not think a bike is broken in until 1000 to 2500 miles from what I have read, so many opinions are out there on the web I do not know who is right but 300 miles is not that much. Maybe 300 miles on a track at WFO might do it. But if you are not beating the thing to death then allot more miles are needed, this gives the bike plenty of time to wear in including the suspension and rider, I did not adjust my suspension until 1500 miles and then I need to start fine tuning it as I got 2000 miles on it. I am not a racer or had any schooling yet but I think if I am in a corner I want to be right around 7000 rpms for engine braking or accelerating out of the corner, I have never felt what you say you have felt, I have just learned to cruise at 4000 or higher, remember my charging issues, I think I may have been riding to low in the rpms so now I have moved it up a notch and it is charging better, still got a few more test to do before I can say all is well and good. again I am getting broken in to, along with the bike. I am not saying that there is not a problem with your bike, I just have not have had any running issues, just charging issues, so go ride you bike like you stole it and see if you can get some good miles under your belt and I hope your problem is no longer a problem. Just my thoughts. Mike | ||
| No_rice |
ok, so what you are telling me is that even though there is a RUBBER cush drive it should still have a very prominent metal to metal clunk that i can here over everything even with my helmet on... and i am being told that it was designed this way. designed to have very prominent slack? so someone must be able to explain to me then why we would down grade that aspect of our bikes on the new version. one of the big buell points is no driveline lash is it not? why would my 5 year old beat to hell and back bike not have virtually any and my new bike have way to much? there is no slack in the on off throttle(and its not the throttle cables, completely not what im talking about) on my 9, and there is enough slack(or something) in the 1125 to disrupt my corners. hey i am hoping it improves also, but the big clunk and bang when i roll on or off the throttle is not a pleasant sound or feeling. now i may not be the smartest person in the world, but i would think by now many of you know im not a retard either, but for some reason i get the impression that most people think this is an ok thing and i should just accept it. now i will deal with a lot of quirks and character, but when something is enough of a problem that it can disrupt my riding then i have to figure out whats up. i dont like it when my bike shimmies half way through a corner because it feels like i just slammed it into a different gear. if it is somehow a fueling problem during the transission from on/off the gas i would go for that idea too, but it still doesnt explain the big clunk associated with it that comes from down deep around the bottom of the motor. heck, i have even though it could feel similar to the rubber of the cush drive not being there to take up the slack. that would also explain the metal to metal banging i get. i seem to feel like mine sounds even more like a ducati with a dry clutch while its idling than any of the other 1125's i have heard also, but that part could just be in my head, heck i dont even mind that since that is some character i can deal with! | ||
| No_rice |
Maybe 300 miles on a track at WFO might do it. i dont litterally believe it is broken in, i was just kind of commenting on how hard it got used this weekend. the first 300 miles on it were the way i wish every mile on it could be. i was watching my engine speed and such, but every bit of what i could use, got used playing around at badness! basically i was saying that this bike has a head up on getting broken in since it was done down there where there is alot of rpm changes and such. | ||
| Baggermike |
I agree No Rice the bike should not be doing this, have you taken it to your dealership? look at your belt tension wheel, I do not even hear my clutch so I think something is wrong if what you are saying you here a metal to metal clunk and feel it to, sounds like a transmission problem. what suck is that I had my oil pump break on the ulysses, I brought it in and they said it was the pump, next day they said it was an clogged oil line, so I said I felt something break and to cut the line open to see what part broke and is clogging the oil line and they did not listen to me, over two month later total top end rebuild because the oil pump broke, Take it to your dealership ASAP and call customer service to get the dealership and BMC on the same page so you do not have to waite so long to get it fixed. I wish you the best of luck getting this worked out. Mike | ||
| No_rice |
ya, i figured i would mention it to the guys in the shop when i get to work today and see if they can do some checking. it hasnt been checked into to deep yet since i just got back from badness with it and today will be my first day back to work since then. i just though maybe others had noticed the clunking or had noticed the (what seems like) drive line lash. | ||
| Baggermike |
I have not noticed any but I been riding buells and harleys thence 1982, so that is all I know but I would think I would notice something like what you have described, I am a old school mechanic and have been thinking about your problem and sound like the transmission but I could be wrong and hope I am wrong so you do not have to miss to many riding days, I missed the fall season and that hurt. Mike | ||
| New12r |
When I rode Smokes(3100 miles) there was a little lash, but nothing I would have called abnormal. The Nuetral spot is there but I dont roll off/on for the turns much, I stay at a more steady RPM and am always under power through a turn. Something else I have noticed is the more miles the Buells get, the better they work. My 12R trans sucked balls for the first 10k, after that is really started working. | ||
| No_rice |
i am planning on giving it some more time since it does need to be broken in more. it is just a lot different feel from my xb's |
