| Author | Message | ||
     Reepicheep |
Power is volts times amps, so if I grind through the math, it looks like Buell is assuming 13.5 volts to get those amps and watts figures. Backing into the Blast figure, that means it puts out 22 amps. But the blast normally runs just a single headlight. The XB-R runs one headlight, but doesn't the 1125 use two headlights or more? So that would "subtract" at least 5 amps or so right off the top. Assume the "other stuff" on the 1125 steals another amp or so. Here is the bigger difference though... the blast is making peak amps / watts at what, 7000 RPM? But to ride a blast and get any kind of usable power, you are probably revving it to at *least* 5000 RPM on a pretty regular basis. So most of the time you are at 5/7ths power output (15 amps). Riding the 1125, you are making more then enough power at 3000 RPM (though I don't know how you ride). Thats 3/10ths the power output (9 amps). That might be a factor. And I think there probably is an issue with your bike. I think you are trying to solve too many variables at once though. You can test the stator, thats easy to isolate. And you can ride the bike with just the heated grips and see if the things won't start at some point (don't obsess over voltages, current, or anything else... just see if it starts in the morning). A bad stator should not be able to hurt a voltage regulator in any way I can imagine. It can hurt the battery just by making the battery discharge too deeply too often. A bad voltage regulator is likely to hurt a battery, either by over charging it, or making it discharge too far too many times. I don't think it can hurt a stator, as its normal operation is pretty much the worst thing you can do to the stator in the first place (as this is a shunt system) A bad battery would hurt the voltage regulator (as all the power the battery should be sinking now is heat dumped by the VR), but probably not the stator (which is just as happy baking a VR as it is charging a battery). I think you are over thinking it. Here is a chart that somebody posted that looks like it came from Yusa: Percent Hydrometer Unloaded charge reading voltage 100 1.242 12.49 75 1.187 12.16 50 1.137 11.86 25 1.097 11.62 0 1.077 11.50 Thats for 7 deg f. For higher temps, it would be Temperature: 107 degrees Fahrenheit Percent Hydrometer Unloaded charge reading voltage 100 1.275 12.69 75 1.220 12.36 50 1.170 12.06 25 1.130 11.82 0 1.110 11.70 (original charts at http://www.buchanan1.net/lead_acid.shtml) So lets take the worst case, 100+ degrees F. If your DC volt meter reads above 12.69 at any given RPM, your bike is at least *trying* to charge your battery. | ||
| Baggermike |
Court I am turning fifty in may and you are probably better shape than me, I think I could do it on this bike, last year I rode the ulysses from Peabody Mass to Niagara Fall and back in 18 hours and my gps read 970 miles just 30 miles to 1000, I am going to try this on the 1125 this summer. Maybe going to buells Homecoming I will do this and have it documented. Mike | ||
| Court |
Last time I did the LAP OF AMERICA I started months in advance working with a trainer and got in great shape. One of the articles, I think RIDER magazine, had a cute blurb that said "it looks like this guy could pick up the bike and carry it" . . . It is, as others will testify, as much mental but you do have to be in good shape and have some discipline. It's doable. My curiousity is just to find, with a random bike, how many issues would manifest themselves in an out and back ride. | ||
| Court |
Oh wait . . . I just saw how old your are . . at 50 life ends. You are lucky to be riding at all in the sunset years of your life. Do you have an electric guitar? That is the only way to recapture youth as it slips away.  I used to ride test bikes back and forth from the Buell factory to New York City and that's a great way to quickly wring a bike out. It was about 894 miles and allowed me to quickly learn the quirks of a bike. | ||
| Benm2 |
Mike, I still think there may be something wrong with your charging system, but I'm not sure what. Bill may have a good point: the XB / Blast alternators have rated outputs at lower rpm, since the engine has a total available range of 6500rpm. The 1125 unit has to survive up to much higher rpm. Think of your alternator/regulator as a fixed-displacement pump. The XB units produce enough "flow" at say 2500 rpm, and the regulator bleeds off the remaining flow through the shunt resistor. This all works out since you cruise on an XB at around 2500-3000 rpm. The 1125 alternator has to cover a wider range. If the alternator was designed to produce "rated" power at the same 2500 rpm, it would have to shunt 4 times that amount of power through the shunt resistor. While this is a MASSIVE simplification that ignores more than few things, the result is that the alternator's output is adjusted so as not to cook the regulator. If your accessories exceed the power (amps) available at your typical cruising rpm (probably less than 7000) then you'll never get out of the loop you're in. Another possibility is that something else on the bike is taking more power than it should, like a bad injector coil, ignition coil, fuel pump, etc. Something is wrong though. If you're measuring 11.9V on the battery, its almost fully discharged. You are definitely supporting SOME load from the battery and NOT the charging system. Also, the blast is carb'd, right? No electrical loads for fuel pump or injectors. | ||
| Baggermike |
Read Jpfive's posts above the bike is made to handle high beams and heated grips over 2200 rpms with engine at operating temperature. this comes to 106 watts, high beams 70 watts heated grips 36 watts so lets say 100 watts. this is just ten more than my heated jacket so the battery should not have discharged when riding and it did. I did not know that the bike was suppose to run high beams and heated grips with no problem to I read Jpfive's post above. with my nephews battery I thought riding the bike in the right conditions should not leave me stranded. I put my battery in two nights ago and was fully charged in the morning and did notice a difference between the two batteries and got home with the battery around 12.5 or 6, that afternoon I rode the bike to go to the store with no heated jacket or high beams and the battery discharged even more. this is the first time riding the bike when the temperature was over fifty. I had no high beams or heated jacket and the battery that came with the bike discharged. I am 95% sure it needs a new battery. As for the stator I do not know but all three yellow wires were identical with cold ac voltage at 11 at idle and drop down to 8 at idle with engine temperature at 190 degrees and it took more rpms to get to 40 volts, so cold 11 volts at idle and 40 volts at 5000. hot 8 volts at idle and 40 watts at 7000 rpms. I do not have the knowledge to know if this is right or wrong. this has to be answered by Buell. Now if the bike is made to handle high beams and heated grips above 2200 rpm there is something wrong. I did notice a difference between batteries so lets say the battery is bad, but when I tested the voltage meter with an amp gauge it went crazy, I again do not have the knowledge to say if there is something wrong with the voltage regulator but have seen 14+ running volts at the battery before it went in to the shop. Now almost all of the previous test I have seen are under 14 volts and weird, things like voltage jumping around, or voltage dropping as I bring the rpms up. I have not seen any of my test coming out with more that 14 volts it did but no longer. again I do not have the knowledge as to why this is. all I can say is this is what I have found with the test I have taken, I can not see the whole picture but I can give this information to the tech guys and it should help them fix the bike right. Mike | ||
| Baggermike |
Benm I figured that out with the blast one headlight and a carb and not all these fans and fuel injectors and so on. But going with what Jpfive said I should not be having a problem. Mike | ||
| Reepicheep |
Hey! You posted something really important while I was replying...
Now *there* is a result! Based on that second quote, I think you have a problem with your stator! That was AC measurements on the Stator, right? | ||
| Baggermike |
Yes bill A C volts at the three yellow wires coming from the stator. Mike | ||
| Court |
Mike: I have a confession. I am an executive in the electric power business and it has occured to me that I have spent less time dealing with electricity the last week than you have. Ever thought about building combined cycle power plants? Court | ||
| Baggermike |
Court I think to much already. Mike | ||
| Reepicheep |
I think its your stator then... It was disconnected from the rest of the bike, and while running dropped in output from 11 volts (which I think was too low to start with) down to 8 volts (which *really* sounds too low). You did have the stator disconnected at this point, right? Did all three phases drop the same? Meaning, did all three possible pairs of pins drop from 11V to 8V AC? That's really odd... if there was a problem I would have expected only one or two of them to drop. (Message edited by reepicheep on March 05, 2008) | ||
| Baggermike |
Yes Bill the plug was disconnected from the bike and all three were the same, I had my multy meter in A C mode and tested all three yellow wires one at a time with the red lead to the yellow wire and the black lead to the frame or ground, and all three yellow wires were the same and tested multiple times to make sure. Mike | ||
| Reepicheep |
Well there you go. And unless somebody else is willing to pop that plug from their 1125r and see what it is *supposed* to be doing, we just have to guess, but it sure sounds wrong to me. The dealer still has to diagnose it, but I would not take it in until they have a stator in stock for you. And suggest to the service guy he check the stator output with the engine gboth cold and hot. | ||
| Baggermike |
Thanks Bill I got who worked on the bike in Florida so maybe I should call him? I already tried to have the parts there and they said they could not unless harley says they can and they have to find the problem first. My sales man said the communication between Buell is allot better now so I do not know what to do it is 120 miles away so I got to take the train home which I am not looking forward to. I tried to get my son to follow me on the Blast but he says no way is he riding on the back for 120 miles, cant say I blame him the seat is so uncomfortable, plus the second stock exhaust broke on the Blast so it is making a racket and do not think it is a good idea. I will do some calling before going and maybe someone from Buell will read this and help me out. Mike | ||
| Husky |
Mike, have you asked the dealer for a loaner bike? Husky | ||
| Baggermike |
No I did not Husky but I did get some info on things so I got some phone calls in the morning to make and will ask. I also think Reepicheep is right and they should have the parts there for replacement if needed, I could get there for opening and and they could do the work while I wait all day. would not be the first time I have done this. Mike | ||
| Spatten1 |
I would feel much better if this was made convenient for you Mike. It is not your fault that they replaced the wrong parts the first time(s). | ||
| Reepicheep |
As we have all observed first hand on this thread, diagnosing these problems can take some time. And while we have what I think *looks* like a smoking gun, there could still be other issues. And the things that the dealer did the first time could actually have been important... I had a cascading failure (Stator, VR, Battery) gradually over a month long period on the M2. But I bet if you called Buell CS, and reviewed the situation with them, and told them that with the stator disconnected and your meter on AC, you got 11V AC at idle on a cold engine, and 8V AC at idle when it was warm, they could take that information back to the engineers, and decide if it is appropriate to have a stator waiting for you at the dealer (assuming you want to wait there for the work to be done). If not, its a bother to make two trips, but not rushing the tech through the job might be beneficial to everyone as well. | ||
| Baggermike |
spatten the the fuell pump locked up and the bike would not run so they did not replace the wrong part but they did not check out the electrical system good either or they would have found this out. Bill I am calling Buell C S soon not sure they are open yet, I do not like the idea of taking a two and a half hour train ride then have to wait for another train to go near to were I live and then have my son pick me up, He is on his permit and not suppose to ride after dusk so he would have to and that can cause a problem. No matter what I am screwed. Anyway I will let you guys know what happens. Mike | ||
| Spatten1 |
Mike, I seem to remember you asking them to check out the charging system when it was in the shop for the fuel pump because you believed it was not charging properly. | ||
| Baggermike |
Thanks spatten I forgot about that and just got home. I was on my way and forgot to get the paperwork so I turned around. I also have some stuff to order and figured if I got to go up I will wait to the parts are in so I can get both done. Calling my sales man now to see what he has to say. Mike | ||
| Baggermike |
Ok Buell Customer Service can answer tech questions to I am starting at the stator and they are going to call me back as to what the stator is suppose to put out. After I get this answer I can move on the the next question, but I am taking one step at a time so it is not confusing. Mike | ||
| Reepicheep |
Excellent! Thats great that they can run that down for you, be sure and post it here and see if we are on the right track... | ||
| Baggermike |
The only thing it I am still waiting for the call and it has been four hours. looks like I have to call again tomorrow Mike | ||
| Blake |
Buell Customer service needs to be on site at Buell in East Troy. | ||
| Baggermike |
Blake are you telling my they are not going to answer my questions when they said they would. Mike | ||
| Blake |
When did they say they'd get back to you? | ||
| Baggermike |
I assumed today by what she said and took the info I wanted to know and said they would call me back. I had asked if they answer tech questions and she said yes. I had asked about the running A C volts coming from the stator both hot and cold. she took my info and said I would get a call back. just one simple question. I thought I would just ask one question so they would not get it confused. so by getting an answer to this question I would then know if it is right or wrong. then can ask further questions if needed. Mike | ||
| Baggermike |
Can anyone of you guys check your stator it is a plug that you can get at by just removing the seat, Has three yellow wires and unplugs easy and take a volt meter and measure running volt after starting the bike you just unplug and check the three yellow wires. Hopefully I can get the dealership to call and find this out for me, but I am not holding my breath on that. two new buells both bad and my whole fall and winter has been ruined by Buell. I had told them the oil pump broke on the ulysses and they did not listen to me and took over two month to get it back. guess what broken oil pump. is this what I get for buying American. Mike |
