| Author | Message | ||
     Blake |
"My service mgr., who spoke directly to BMC, feels that Buell knows there is an electrical problem with a large number of bikes and is working on the issue." You and your service manager sure do spend a lot of time gossiping about what you imagine "Buell knows." As y'all are the same couple who felt that it was accurate to say that the 1125R didn't charge the battery unless the engine exceeded 7000 RPM, please forgive us if we take whatever you see fit to share here with the world's biggest grain of salt. Frankly, I'd very much appreciate if you would cease contributing to these discussions. The nonsense, gossip and 2nd hand hearsay that you are injecting into them is potentially harmful to those who may unwittingly accept what you say at face value. If you have actual facts, fine, share them, otherwise, please be quite. | ||
| Ccryder |
Good morning B: Just about the time all my ?'s would be answered, I have to stick to the topic. Oh well Flux caps be gone, star drive will have to wait. Anyway, I'll be picking up my 25r in about 3 weeks. Then I can answer my own ?'s Later | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Hey Blake, buy an 1125r for yourself, then tell me to shutup. You have some hidden agenda here? I don't get it. Frankly, I'm a bit surprised at your reaction as I am simply trying to get my bike fixed--like other Badwebbers. Until Buell comes out with an appropriate fix for the 1125r, I wouldn't expect ANY owner to remain quiet. Sorry. | ||
| Blake |
"I am simply trying to get my bike fixed" That is an inaccurate statement. Here's a clue. You aren't going to get your bike fixed by gossiping, levying outrageous ignorant assertions, and broadcasting false information to people on BadWeB. You get your bike fixed by taking it to your dealership and describing to them in precise detail, what the problem is and what you expect when they return the bike to you. I'm a custodian here who's responsibility among others is to maintain the integrity of the place. Your contributions (gossip and wild accusations) to this thread and others of the same topic display dismally poor integrity wrt the issue at hand. Now, if you don't want to honor my repeated request that you cease the unhelpful commentary here, I can make that happen for you. It's your choice. I'll not argue the issue any further. Again, it is entirely your choice. Please do me a favor and just let it go. | ||
| Dave_bogue |
This forum bans members who post "unhelpful commentary"? That policy should thin out the ranks in short order. Dave | ||
| Garyl |
quote: "This forum bans members who post "unhelpful commentary"? " Unfortunately yes. I noticed this immediately upon joining 2 years ago. I had a belt failure, and when belt failure threads began popping up, all the owners who vocalized their discontent were ostracized and ridiculed. Some were even given warnings to stop. in all fairness, it was not only the moderators, but also other badweb members who "reprimanded" the dissatisfied owners. You can see it most evidently, when ever the firebolt headlamp housing issue comes up. Owners of faulty/dangerous housings are routinely told to "stop whining" and told "not to ride at night" It's sad. | ||
| Spectrum |
It's disappointing that Buell seems to be taking a deny and dismiss approach to the charging systems problems(at least with me). I'm not the first owner CS has told "accessories like heated grips and running with the high beams on can cause a net drain situation". Bottom line is this is a poor attempt to dismiss the problem and is evidence the factory knows there is a problem. Since this appears to be a heat related issue, it's likely going to grow and impact a lot more owners as the weather warms up. If the tactic is to Ban frustrated and disgruntled owners then the custodians of this forum are going to be real busy this summer. If your goal is to keep this forum a Buell enthusiast versus Buell complaint forum, perhaps advocating for a fix might yield better results. | ||
| Court |
>>>>I must have mentioned the BadWeb and and she just started laughing at me! That's why I've been a bit reluctant to intervene in some of these lately. My name was mentioned in a meeting a while back and the comment were really nasty. Not something like "Court doesn't know what he's talking about" or "Court has no business here" but really vile personal stuff. I'm seeing this same thing with 1125R problems. An owner comes in with a legit concern and it's the owner, not the bike that is seen at fault. Someone needs to become responsible. On the other topic, I'm sure eager to hear lots of view points but MOST of what is being attributed to "Buell techs" and so forth is pure speculation, idle gossip and down right wrong. In many ways . . and I have no dog in this fight . . the internet acts contrary to the owners interest by muddying the waters of truth. I confess that the speed with which the folks at Harley-Davidson Customer Service are handling the 1125R issues is a major disappointment and inconsistent to what they'd promised they'd been doing. Their communication frankly sucks and is not the least bit comforting. Until they rectify this I expect to see them buying some 1125R's back. If Buell were handling this there would be some immediate and sweeping changes. Erik Buell has no tolerance for shirking responsibility. By the way . . on the "why don't you just buy one" comment. . . I've given some thought to purchasing one. . . getting on it . . . pointing it to L.A. and seeing what happens. I think it would be interesting to take an 1125R from NYC to LA and back. Court | ||
| Jpfive |
I am the owner of one of the bikes that the Buell team analyzed in Pensacola, FL. I have posted several times as to what they told me. Except for one occasion (my carelessness), I have avoided mentioning their names - not because they requested it, but because of courtesy, and a concern for their privacy. I have not attributed anything to 'Buell techs' that has not been told to me by same. These guys have been nothing but courteous, sincere and genuinely concerned about solving problems and improving the bikes. I know that I have not been critical of them, and I have certainly appreciated their efforts. I remain in touch with one of them by cell phone and email. I make these points so that I might not be dismissed in the future as contributing to 'gossip'. Jack | ||
| Spatten1 |
Court, thanks for the candor on this and the other threads. | ||
| Court |
Jack: Don't mistake my thread for inferring your contributions are "gossip". As you know the Buell Tech Engineers are not only nice guys and talented engineers, but rabid enthusiasts. But folks are taking snippets and making some misleading inferences from them. There are some problems, there are some talented engineers with resources, there will be solutions. | ||
| Reepicheep |
It's not so much what you say, it's how you say it. When you talk about Buell, you are talking about personal friends of a lot of people on the board, and you are talking about a company that a huge majority of us have worked with in the past (shock recall in my case). So talk about them like you are talking to a close friend of the person. Because you are. That doesn't mean you can't say a broken thing is broken, but we do ask you be polite about it, and if you want to wage a public relations war, take it somewhere else. | ||
| Jpfive |
Now, having made my previous point, I do not consider that my bike has had a serious problem. It came to the dealership at their request, so that the factory team could have another bike to compare while working on Captnemo's problem. My bike's battery had discharged on _one_ occcasion, in a matter of four days, after having been topped off by a tender. The battery was so flat that it took my tender nearly 24 hours to bring it back to full charge. I do not think that I left the switch on park, but I consider that that is at least a possibility. Not finding a draw anywhere, the team concentrated instead on the charging system. They made the decision to replace the stator, and made extensive analysis of electrical system function before and after. I have subsequently left my bike off the tender, for the aforementioned four days, and have not seen a loss of charge. I consider my bike to be operating normally at this point - and am very impressed with the level of Buell support that I have received. Jack | ||
| Spatten1 |
I had a belt failure, and when belt failure threads began popping up, all the owners who vocalized their discontent were ostracized and ridiculed. We have some members, not the administration, who think that it is productive to chime in that their belt has gone a million miles trouble free, and that makes you an idiot for having a broken belt. Then they will tell you after a couple of broken belts you are an idiot to switch to chain drive, because their belt went a million miles and is still perfect. Very strange behavior. | ||
| Jpfive |
Reep, If you examine my posts, I doubt that you will find any disrespect - or criticism, for that matter - unless you have read it into my comments in error. I have been neither disrespectful, or critical. I realize that this is a board for Buell fans and enthusiasts - which is why I am on it. I am sold on the company and its philosophy, and feel that I am a participant in the creation and nurture of an American sport-biking experience and culture. I have never been disappointed in a Buell product, including my 1125R, so please put me in your camp. My comments on the work on my bike have been meant to inject some factual information. I am convinced that is a helpful and proper thing, regardless of how others may use 'snippets' of this information. Jack | ||
| Spectrum |
Court if owners wanted to fill a complaint about the tactics of "HD Customer Service" in addressing and resolving issues (or lack there of) who would we contact or how would we go about doing so? | ||
| Reepicheep |
Now, back on topic  Mike... you can hook it up fine on either the positive or negative terminal, but you won't be measuring everything. If you hook it up coming out of the stator / voltage regulator, you will be measuring the amount of current the bike is producing, not the amount the bike is consuming. So you could be draining your battery and not know it. If you hook it out coming out of the battery, you will be measuring the amount of current going into or out of the battery. So if the stator / voltage regulator takes a dump and the bike does run off the battery, you may see a symptom, but it might not be obvious without some thinking. That one of the really complicating factors here... there are two sources of current, the stator and the battery, and both are doing something every time the bike runs. A Buell will not run well without a battery, but it will run, I've tried it. And given the design, doing so is fairly brutal to your voltage regulator, and probably risks blowing a computer. For the record, running my Kawasaki KLR-250 with a bad battery (it's kick start, so you hardly notice) blew *that* bikes voltage regulator (same design as the Buell one). The stator puts out AC, the voltage regulator rectifies it (full wave bridge), but its still a bunch of quick cycling between zero and some voltage. Its not that the bike has to run off the battery, its that the bike needs the battery to run as a big capacitor, to absorb part of the power during the peak voltages the stator puts out, and to return that power during the dips. I think it acts as a big resistor as well, making the VR do less work shunting excess power. When you rev the bike high enough, there are no dips, at least not ones long enough cause problems with the electronics / etc. You all are baiting me... I'm getting tempted to cobble something together. If *I* were going to do it, I would have a voltage monitor across the battery (which really means you just have it on any live line on the bike, like the headlight or accessory leads), and have a current meter between the voltage regulator and ground. That would let me measure the voltage of the battery before the bike is running (which will tell me the condition of the battery), and the voltage of the battery after the bike is running (which will tell me the condition of the voltage regulator), and the amount of current the voltage regulator is feeling the need to "dump to ground" because it is not being used (which will tell me if my stator is being overloaded or has died completely). Other ways to slice it as well, but that would work pretty well. The only problem I could see there is that the VR currently has a ground that is basically just a "bolt it to the frame". That gives a good conductive connection for electrons, and also gives a good thermal connection to shed heat. If you tried to disconnect it enough to get a meter in there, you probably loose your good thermal dumping where the frame is a heat sink. So again, it would probably be better suited to "debugging a potential problem" rather then permanent installation on the bike. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Jack, I haven't read this thread in detail to try and figure out who said what or how it was said... my commentary was meant to be general philosophical guidance... most of it goes back to the "Dyna Days"... if you don't know what that means, count your blessings It wasn't directed at anyone in particular... my apologies if it read like a personal attack on you, I meant nothing of the kind. | ||
| Jpfive |
No offense taken - just saw the need for some clarification. Pax, my brother. Jack | ||
| Court |
If it were me I'd write to: Jon Flickinger, President Buell Motorcycle Company 2715 Buell Drive East Troy, WI 53120 As I always have, I'd offer a couple thoughts.
Jon is one of the most valuable things that's ever happened at Buell. He genuinely lives by the Buell Values. He's been upfront, honest and open with me about public and non-public issues both good an bad. He is a true leader. We owe him the same and it's important that he has good data. Court | ||
| Dentguy |
Great advice Court. | ||
| Ccryder |
Reep: Thanks for the insight. Court: Thanks again, bringing reality to...... well we know. Blake: Are you still awake? I got 2-3 hours between coughing fits. Later Neil S. | ||
| Court |
Funny thing . . . .but my take is that Buell has never needed help and support from it's owner like the company does now. Change, with HD earning flat, is in the wind. Buell is going to see, I suspect, reduced commitment and level of fervor at HD. Don't get me wrong, I don't see anything going away but I can see HD, as an example, assigning, one less person to the Buell lines to reduce costs. That's based on nothing but a pure guess as to how some of the folks think. If there has ever been a time that Flick and Erik need to know "hey, we know there are some glitches in the 1125R release. . . .we're with you and have confidence a fix is on the way. Count on us", it's now. I'd write even if just to say . . "Thanks for the grins" to let them know we are out here. Positive things bear positive fruit. I'm having to prove this to a group of my young underlings at the moment. | ||
| Spectrum |
Thanks Court! | ||
| Buzzie |
Guys, I am a Harley tech and a buell tech at a dealership and although every once in a while I pop in and give my two cents I am trying to "hear" what cool positive things I can about the 25r. Lately though its too many negative things. I realize that some have problems ..hello ..how many cars out there have recalls? problems? concerns that aren't known by the designing company until its been out in the world for months. If you have a problem with your bike...Patience. Respect. Understanding is the way to get it fixed. Only a few months of Classes were opened for the Buell training of the 1125r at Harley Davidson University and only 12 guys are able to attend each class. This is the first year the 1125r is being offfered the possibility exist that outsourced suppliers may have provided faulty components.....or perhaps a wire tie was pulled too tight causeing this that or the other ..perhaps the california or international models have a flaw in the canister system....perhaps a positive wire is rubbing along the frame causing voltage to run through the frame and heat the fuel tank and cause the fuel to boil ..perhaps the flux capacitor is fluxing too fast and the neon lights are discharging way to fast ...... LIGHTEN UP ALREADY. I DON'T EVEN RIDE SPORTBIKES...I USUALLY THINK THEY ARE UNCOMFORTABLE. BUT I WANT AN 1125R. SO......quit the bitchin and be a little understanding. "If" enough bikes do have the same problem BMC will find any flaw and will get it fixed. It is possible for many different little things to go wrong. thats my two cents ..i think i am done with this thread. | ||
| Ustorque |
bingo there is a perfect example of the service we get at our dealers....notice it started off nice then turned to crap! no wonder most of us do our own.thanks for proving a point buzzie.  BMC needs to get the service manuals out there so all the guys who shelled out for their new bikes can fix em without dealing with what in most cases has already proven to be a terrible dealer network! my $ .02 (Message edited by ustorque on March 02, 2008) (Message edited by ustorque on March 02, 2008) | ||
| Zac4mac |
+∞ Buzzie Z | ||
| Ustorque |
just so i'm not misunderstood i have they greatest respect for Erik Buell and those at BMC, what i have little faith in is the numerous middle men we must deal with to get to them. (Message edited by ustorque on March 02, 2008) | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Now, if you don't want to honor my repeated request that you cease the unhelpful commentary here, I can make that happen for you. Surprise, surprise. Very sad, Blake. Do what you have to do, I guess. Do I get let back in when Buell finally figures out what is wrong with the electrical system of the afflicted bikes? Oh, never mind--you would have to admit there are problems first to answer that...never mind. | ||
| Court |
>>>Oh, never mind--you would have to admit there are problems first to answer that... That'd likely make everyone look silly. I mean one would have to admit there were problems and the other would have to concede it's less than 10 bikes out of 1,000. Nobody wins that deal. |
