| Author | Message | ||
     Jammin_joules |
I would rather my customer tell me they got a better number from someone and let me have the chance to match the price. If I can do it I will, If not I will tell them thanks and thats that. Most of the time if I get close, I will get the order. Exactly - last I checked, Gee Dubya #43 has not taken away a free-market economy. Laws of supply & demand still rule. Many here have voiced concern over dealers being ready to service the Helicon motor, or that the dealer was unwilling to drop everything in the midst of the holiday season and track the one or two 1125r's he has coming to the point that he should rent a U-Haul and go to E.Troy to get them. Others mention how some dealers have low paid, unskilled, low-experienced lot-techs setting up bikes. I mean, come on, who doesn't want the 45yr old Master Tech checking their tire pressure and oil level. Some want dealers to drop the prices below fair market value, saying they can make it up on volume - so the same or fewer sales people doing more work to sell more bikes saved money and improves service? Bargain shop buyers - an argument can be made that the dealers who are still without their first 1125r may have missed some E.Troy filing or notice to take some action so they fell from the initial round of shipments. They may have missed some communications because they were busy serving more customers with less people to keep costs down since their profit margins have eroded ever since selling below MSRP. Did Mazda dealers hold MSRP on the first two years of the Miata? Did Ford dealers hold prices on the first years of the hot redesigned Mustang Mach I? How much was that first 1-gig hard drive, 50-meg RAM 1-GHz dual core processor PC you bought two years ago compared to 6 months later? Damn, now even Best Buy is evil! (don't even get me started on the rebates that you never have all the paperwork to actually receive) If you don't like the price offered on the first 1125r coming in your area, don't pay it and wait your turn. There should be plenty more in June & July. | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
To be honest with you, if every dealer sold everything at the same price and you got & keep you customers based on customer service.... That would be the way to go in my book. Then the big Turds would get filtered out quick.... But... This is the game we play... WE CHEAT THE OTHER GUY.... AND PASS THE SAVINGS ON TO YOU!! | ||
| Jammin_joules |
coal400: PS. Harley is not moving to China, they are now selling motorcycles in China PPS. If Harley got so damn lazy and are becoming a commodity, how is it that they are going to sell more bikes in 2007 then they did in 2006 which was more than they did in 2005 which was more than they did in 2004 (if you correct for the fact they built 2003 for 14 months, two into 2004) which is way, way more than they did in 2002, which is more than they did in 2001 which is more... PPPS. Fence Walking ALERT: Harley is stale -vs- V-Rod anti-Harley | ||
| Jammin_joules |
To be honest with you, if every dealer sold everything at the same price and you got & keep you customers based on customer service.... That would be the way to go in my book. Answer me this riddle: A dealer north of Denver has been staying open 7 days a week for probably five years now. They have two service crews, Sun-Wed & Wed-Sat so on Wed big projects get done faster. They keep a service bay open for no appointment 5k & 10k services and new bike buyers don't pay when getting their 1k initial service done and they get 10% off clothes and accessories when buying the bike. They are also the last remaining Buell dealer from Denver north until Casper, WY. They will drop anything to get a bike broke down on the road, trailering as far as the Wyoming border. They have been known to loan a rental bike free of charge when someone is in need. They have at least 5 Master Techs, they send nearly all service techs to school in the winter, (not just one who trains the staff) and have an on-sight dyno facility. They campaigned a V-Rod Destroyer, sponsored a bike up Pikes Peak Hill Climb and are trying to enter a Buell and V-Rod in Bonneville next year. They are also are huge financial supporters of numerous charitable rides & events such as Safe Shelter and Disable Vets. At least four employees own Buells. Their bikes are on the floor with complete out the door pricing listed, nothing added in the back room (once sales tax can be calculated for their address). Salesmen attend Back to the Track and were at the initial 1125r track training. The guys down south in Denver close Sunday and Monday as is the tradition in most of Denver's dealerships. No tags are on bikes showing prices so you have to get the attention of a sales person. If the guys down south discount $100 under MSRP, who would you buy your 1125r from? If the guys down south discount $500 under MSRP, who would you buy your 1125r from? If the guys down south discount $1,000 under MSRP, who would you buy your 1125r from? For all the added perks and benefits of the dealership up north, what cost do you think is associated with these? | ||
| Jammin_joules |
HD stock is realizing a correction, and its no surprise to me. When a company becomes more concerned about their stock than their business, this is the result. It is my belief that a healthy business should drive stock value, and not the other way around. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119654772678210819 .html The shares sport a price/earnings multiple of 12 times 2008's expected earnings, well below the historical norm and the market's 15 P/E. Yet when the Street throws in the towel on Harley, that's usually the best time to buy the shares. Even in the latest quarter, Harley posted a return on equity of nearly 40% and operating margins of 26%. Being No. 1 certainly helps: Harley controls 50% of the U.S. market for bikes in the heavyweight class, with engine displacements of 651 cubic centimeters or more. With numbers like that, Harley has a lengthy track record of double-digit earnings gains and strong stock-market returns. Harley deserves a 17 P/E One bullish sign is Harley's growth overseas. Chief Executive Officer James Ziemer says that international sales, which account for 20% of revenue, could climb to 30% in five years. Cudos for free trade, including in China now. A bet on Harley is a view that in 12 months or so the market will sense an improvement in the economy. When that comes, look for Harley to hit the gas on revenue and profit growth, and its shares to hit the open road. | ||
| Bonjoxb12s |
Not if Harley can't get their quality control issues figured out, and get bikes out on time. MANY customers have bought different brands because Harley pushed their orders back and back and back... I think Harley is on the down slope... sure they will bounce back, but it won't be for at least a few years. Look at all the 07's sitting on show room floors..... and that's AFTER HD cut production.... The Rocker is STILL not out (suppose to be out in September), paint issues with standard colors.... Like I've previously said, HD will continue to make a profit but ONLY because it's at the cost of the individual dealers. Harley gets there money up front... I feel sorry for the salesman who starves because every bike is discounted just to get it off the floor. | ||
| Spatten1 |
Harley's domestic customer is getting older and grayer every day. Harley bars in my town look like AARP meetings, but in costume. The Harley customer is a baby-boomer bubble demographic that is sure to trail off in a few years. There are only two ways to increase sales over the next couple of decades: 1) Sell abroad, export the American image 2) Sell 1125s and the like to a younger demographic that wants performance and is not interested in the black leather image. | ||
| Jammin_joules |
I feel sorry for the salesman who starves because every bike is discounted just to get it off the floor. Send phone number and address to said salesman, I know a lot of folks that will be shopping their. Other than a few 2007 Dynas on the floor, (which Harley is giving credit to dealers for Low Riders, Customs and Superglides because the Motor Company reduced the price of those 2008 models, I see few new 2007's on the floor here in Colorado. A Nightrain here or there, and the Deuce which has been discontinued. What dealerships do you know of that have left over 2007 FLH touring bikes or Nightrod Specials or Nightsters? | ||
| Jammin_joules |
Harley's domestic customer is getting older and grayer every day. Harley bars in my town look like AARP meetings, but in costume. Monday, in 14 degree weather, a 71 yr old buyer came in and bought a 2008 XB12Scg. He has owned every major manufacturer brand sold in the US except Buell - until now. He's ridden in all 50 states, and every province in Canada. Yeah, we're all getting older. I guess some people are said to act like it too. | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Dave (Jammin_joules)......+1 brother! AARP Bob.....NOT | ||
| Ratbuell |
Harley bars in my town look like AARP meetings, but in costume. That's the funniest thing I've read in a LONG time!  | ||
| Paint_shaker |
I live within 15 miles of one dealer, 30 miles of another and 50 miles of a third. The 2 closest Dealers are owned by the same entity. Dealer 1 sells Buells for the highest amount. Dealer 2 discounts them (or did). Dealer 3 sells for MSRP (and depending on your "deal", no shipping or setup). Dealer 1 disrespected me when I approached them about starting a BRAG club way back when (and they don't seem to have a lot of Buell knowledge). Dealer 2 couldn't help me identify a seal on the front sprocket of my 98 S1W (and they don't seem to have a lot of Buell knowledge). And Dealer 3 has promoted Buells and accessories for as long as I can remember (and are very knowledgable about Buell). Can you quess which one I layed down my hard earned $$ and bought my 2008 XB12R from?? Plus grips, a tank bag, a service manual and a Buell shirt on the same day?? And later a leather jacket and a touring pillon?? If you quessed Dealer 3, you would be correct. 9 out of 10 times, I'll seek out good customer service over cheapest price. Sometimes though, I just need parts cheap and/or quick (no offense to my main dealer). (Message edited by Paint shaker on December 12, 2007) | ||
| Buellnick |
The free market economy is a good thing...leave it alone. If you can save significant $$ by shopping around...do it. Dealers have to earn a customer's business and loyalty. The good dealers know how to do this. There is no free ride for salesmen or dealers. HD/Buell (and competitors) must advance their product lines to stay competitive. The competition never sleeps... I noted some adverse comments in this thread about V-Rods as some kind of bad turning point for HD. The truth is that HD created the power cruiser niche and others followed which is something to be proud of. Not to mention the fact that a stock V-Rod outperforms all other stock HD bikes and caters to the next generation - not AARP members as noted above. Likewise, Buell is to be commended for this great leap forward in the world of American Motorcycles. V-Rods and Buells sell huge in overseas markets as well - exporting the American Icon to the world... Both V-Rods and Buells rank high in customer satisfaction and low cost of ownership. Also, don't forget that the dollar is weak against other currencies so foreign buyers are getting more for their money when they buy American (as long as their country doesn't kill them with tariffs). This talk about a socialized dealership network, price fixing, etc. is disturbing and very bad for the consumer... my $.05 | ||
| Coal400 |
Jammin Thanks for entertaining my argument, I've put my remarks inline with yours below in green: coal400: PS. Harley is not moving to China, they are now selling motorcycles in China This is a relief to me that they are not, as I thought this would have been brand suicide when I had heard about it. PPS. If Harley got so damn lazy and are becoming a commodity, how is it that they are going to sell more bikes in 2007 then they did in 2006 which was more than they did in 2005 which was more than they did in 2004 (if you correct for the fact they built 2003 for 14 months, two into 2004) which is way, way more than they did in 2002, which is more than they did in 2001 which is more... I never said Harley was lazy, I hope I did not give that impression. I personally have a great admiration for the brand and the legacy, although I disagree or dont understand some of HD's strategies. You more, or less, affirm my point though by showing HD's steady increase in sales that do not correlate to an increase in stock value - seems like a correction to me. I hope that HD continues selling bikes, and does not become overly concerned with selling shares as a result of this correction. Wall street's overnight expectations are not realistic and promote bad business. I am of the opinion that HD was over valued though. PPPS. Fence Walking ALERT: Harley is stale -vs- V-Rod anti-Harley I never called Harley stale, stated they were the generic cruiser. Styrofoam is a Dupont brand name which has become a generic term for "polyfoam styrine". It does not matter who makes the cup, people still call it a styrofoam cup. What is HD to you? Why does one shell out $20,000 for a Harley-Davidson? Do you think the v-Rod fits in with your perception of the brand? It does not fit in with my perception of HD. As far as where Buell fits in; history gives us some similar marketing examples. Honda, Toyota, and Nissan were at one time masters of the compact, fuel efficient auto market. Incidentally, this was possible due to a void left after VW foolishly tried to leave the compact car market, a lucrative market that they invented, in order to compete in the midsize car market filled with established brands... So what do these Japanese compact car manufacturers do when they want to operate outside of the constraints established by their brand? They cleverly create a new brand (Lexus, Acura, Infinity, etc). The premium brand is from the same company, produced on the same lines, but they appear to their consumers as an entirely different entity. They even go as far as creating an entirely different dealership to sell their new brand. This, is the same paradigm I see possible between Buell and HD. Buell is the performance brand that HD could not sell as HD. Just as Buell would never be able to sell a cruiser like HD does. This is why I think the V-Rod was an HD goof. So take them for what they are worth, they are opinions. I'll go back to my armchair now, but I just wanted to clarify... | ||
| Bonjoxb12s |
Jammin, why are you asking about left over 07 models? We are in the 08 model year and all 07's have been sold at very deep discounted prices at this point so dealers don't take a loss when ordering new (2008)product. I know of alot of dealers in these areas that would say the night rod is almost a curse to have on your show room floor (as they don't sell except to a few individuals). Why are FLH models selling so well? It's because Harley's customer base is getting older and they are all trading in their softails for something more cushy that the wife can ride along on. Why did Harley reduce the superglides in 2008? It's because their sales were DEAD in 2007.... If sales for H-D were so great in 2007, why did they shut their plants down for a week? Why are the cutting back production in 2008? It's not because HD is being proactive.... I can tell you that much. Look in the Chicago area, where HD has allowed dealers to practically set up shop next to one another... you've got dealers up there selling for $1k or more UNDER MSRP.... Harley is not what it used to be, and for the next few years I'd expect to see losses here in the US while the export market will gain rapidly. They'll eventually turn things around here in the US, but it will only be because BUELL sold 1125's and XB's to the young generation and turned them on to Harley...... | ||
| Blake |
"Harley's domestic customer is getting older and grayer every day. Harley bars in my town look like AARP meetings, but in costume. The Harley customer is a baby-boomer bubble demographic that is sure to trail off in a few years. " I don't buy this at all. I think it's a myth. I want a Harley. I'll have a Harley. The lord of Battle Trax, FB, rides a Harley! Some days it's just nice to go for a leisurely cruise; a Harley-Davidson is hands down the best motorcycle in the world for that. | ||
| Buellnick |
Maybe another brand name for the V-Rod power cruisers...? I think V-Rods are the best thing H-D has in the showroom (from a performance standpoint) but they are definitely not for everyone. They are made for a different audience and I applaud H-D for trying to capture a new market and prepare for the future. I would not own any other H-D. The H-D retro-classic, anti V-Rod crowd sounds like the diehard BMW boxer crowd when talking about K-Bikes...but you can't dispute the performance. However, this is a Buell forum... I am growing impatient waiting for my 1125R. I am so ready to by another Buell that I may just go get another Firebolt or maybe a TT so I can get some temporary satisfaction. ;) (Message edited by Buellnick on December 12, 2007) | ||
| Jammin_joules |
Jammin, why are you asking about left over 07 models? We are in the 08 model year and all 07's have been sold at very deep discounted prices at this point so dealers don't take a loss when ordering new (2008)product. ... Why did Harley reduce the superglides in 2008? It's because their sales were DEAD in 2007.... If sales for H-D were so great in 2007, why did they shut their plants down for a week? Sorry, I see facts to the contrary. 2008 models were ordered in spring of 2007, new model price reductions were not revealed until the dealers show in the summer. I did not see 2007 Dyna models discounted until 2008 models, at lower cost, hit the show room floor. 2008 price reductions came about for two reasons. First, and primarily, because manufacturing cost reductions, (like 100% EFI models gave volume price breaks) enabled them. Second, because competition was nipping at their heels with knock-offs. Sales were/are, in fact, great, but sales growth tapered. If Generous Motors had the sales growth Harley has, they would not be doing Red Tag events right now. But Wall Street is accustomed to expecting double-digit sales growth from growth oriented stocks. Harley is becoming a stock stalwart, almost a Blue Chip that now pays a dividend, stodgy but steady performance of such company's stock is not rewarded the same. Harley shut down for a week for model change over. A luxury they have not been afforded since the era of the Evolution motor. The automotives do it annually. Also, by tapering production to meet demand, they do not create a glut of product that has to be discounted. Price reductions of 2008 models was planned for, not 'Red Tagged'. You don't see any adds for 0% for 60months for a Harley like the automotives are forced to nearly every year, now do you? I know of alot of dealers in these areas that would say the night rod is almost a curse to have on your show room floor (as they don't sell except to a few individuals). Why are FLH models selling so well? It's because Harley's customer base is getting older and they are all trading in their softails for something more cushy that the wife can ride along on. Yup, and the Motor Company adjusts production levels accordingly - proactively. Forget the wife on the back, the fastest growing segment of riders right now, after dirt bike & sport bikes is women riders. My wife rides a Road King trading up from her Sportster in 2003. Her bike has over 18,000 and she is the mother of two kids. You got a problem with notherhood? Touring models are, and always have sold good, because as riders get older, they have more free time, more vacation, and more disposable income. And they ride to impress no one - speed, wheelies, brakies - nope, Comfort rules. As such, they ride more on longer trips - aka. touring bikes make more sense. If this were not true, I would still be riding in my little hotrod Mustang and on my TS125 Suzuki. You still haven't provided any dealer names or salesman phone numbers. Curious minds want to know.... Why are the cutting back production in 2008? It's not because HD is being proactive.... I can tell you that much. Look in the Chicago area, where HD has allowed dealers to practically set up shop next to one another... you've got dealers up there selling for $1k or more UNDER MSRP.... Harley is not what it used to be, and for the next few years I'd expect to see losses here in the US while the export market will gain rapidly. They'll eventually turn things around here in the US, but it will only be because BUELL sold 1125's and XB's to the young generation and turned them on to Harley...... Wow, sounds like many of the pundits of 1989, and 1994, and 1999, and 2004. Not proactive? Funny, opening up the KC plant to build V-Rods and Dynas and numerous design for manufacture (DFM) design enhancements introduced years ago enabled higher gross margins in years past and finally price reductions this summer, as needed. How is it rationalized in your world that Harley will sell more motorcycles in 2007 than they did in 2006 which is more than they sold in 2005 which is more then they sold in 2004 which is .... I have owned stock in HDI, errr HOG, since 1990. Among other Motor Company products, I own a Road King and a Buell, paid for from profits made on the stock so I don't speak from the side lines. I have skin in the game.} | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
The BabyBoomer angle is part of their stock problem. Babyboomers bought their bikes, that market is going away fast. Harley realized this and is moving their market interest to the younger crowd, hence the VR NightRod (2 models for 08) and the Rocker. Entry prices for the Rocker and the VR isn't out of reach for a younger rider. 15 for the VR and 17 for a Rocker. Their market is getting younger. "It's because their sales were DEAD in 2007" Not true, they sold more bikes in 07 than 2003. Think of it...they sold more bikes last year than the year of their 100th celebration! Harley's "money problem" isn't that they're losing money, but rather they aren't making enough of it for share holders. BIG difference. They can pay their bills, but the Bean Counters want MO MONEY. I'm with Blake, HD makes the greatest quality bike around. If you ever get a chance to tour the PDC, you'll see how many tests and retests they do to get it right. I'll be on a VR this summer as well as my Buell. My size 0 gf has a hard time of it on the back of my XBs and I'm sure she's looking forward to the VR as well. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"I would not own any other H-D." I used to think the same thing until I saw and rode a FatBob. Wow. Its enough to change your mind on a cruiser. | ||
| Buellnick |
For me it's that head forward "hang on" feeling on the VR when you're passing 5K RPM heading for the 9K redline. Up until the 1125R, there is no thrill like it in an American production bike. The air cooled strokers just can't do that. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Harley riders are getting older every day... here's a big secret, so is everyone else. There is a new crop of 42 year olds every year. There is a new band of divorcees every fall, and new batch of teen hooligans every summer and a rider comes to Buell 3 in 100 times (3% numbers not ours but it is the site namer so there you go) And women riders are 1/3 of my customers. You know who I am excited to see in the store? The person that has decided that Motorcycling is the next step in their life (no matter the age) That it is not keeping up with the joneses, it is not because of gas prices, not because it is cheaper than the price of a car. It is the person that is ready for that next adventure in their life. And yes, I will go out of my way to help someone that is excited about it. Motorcycling is a passion, a spirit, a ride; treat it like a common daily commodity and it will be as prevalent as McDonalds & Starbucks. Ps our first one is gone, next one arriving Jan 15. | ||
| Jlnance |
I'm always amused by these threads where the aging Harley customers are mentioned. There seems to be an implicit assumption that we are never going to age, and that our preferences in motorcycles aren't going to change as we do. | ||
| Spatten1 |
The problem is that the next generation is not enamored with the Harley brand (generalization, anecdotal, all I have, Harley seems to recognize the same!) I am 40, and I am not from the generation that idolizes Harley. I came up on CBRs and Ninjas. I want performance. I think I will have a Harley someday too, but not at today's price level. I'd love a Harley touring bike for long trips, but I only believe it is worth 12-13K or so, and would never pay 20k, I'd get a different brand first. I don't care about feeling cool because I'm on a Harley. It doesn't work for me. Sure they make good bikes, but they are 50% overpriced if you are not paying for image. The older generation is still enamored enough with the Harley image to pay the extra 50% over a machine from another brand. If you don't believe that, then explain the Harley wallet, Harley boots, Harley underwear, the Harley doo-rag, and the lack of knowledge about any other brand's products, other than that they are inferior and that they would never be seen riding one. I very seldom can have an intelligent conversation about motorcycles with an older Harley rider because other brands do not even exist in their minds. This attitude is not so prevelant in today's 30 and 40-year-old motorcyclists. At least I don't see it where I live. I see much more well rounded motorcyclist coming behind the baby boomers. Harley can certainly sell to us, but not at anything close to those prices. There will be many thousands of used Harleys coming soon from the baby-boomers. With Harley's lack of product change (part of the strategy), it will impact new sales at some point in the US, unless Harley can somehow convert the next generation into the Harley mindset. I don't know how they will do that. | ||
| Jammin_joules |
I think I will have a Harley someday too, but not at today's price level. ... I only believe it is worth 12-13K or so, and would never pay 20k, I'd get a different brand first. I don't care about feeling cool because I'm on a Harley. It doesn't work for me. Sure they make good bikes, but they are 50% overpriced if you are not paying for image. The older generation is still enamored enough with the Harley image to pay the extra 50% over a machine from another brand. When I was 16 I was appalled at how ignorant my father was, when I turned 21, I was amazed at how much he had learned in five years. - - Mark Twain If you have ever had the chance to ride a Honda VTX1800 and a Victory knock off and a Yamaha cruiser and a Harley on a closed race course, you would realize the Bar & Shield Brand has been around for 104 years for a reason. They have the whole package. Yes, too much chrome over function, especially on some models. But in hard general purpose riding, they out perform the wannabees every time, in the hands of a seasoned rider. I did On paper some of the knock-offs look better, horsepower, brake systems, but take them down the track, corner hard, find out that the real thing is more than chrome and Bar & Shield clothing. As for prices, believe it or not, it is based manufacturing costs. Few manufacturers can price their product or service based on anticipated buyer pain. Steel, iron and chrome parts are not as cheap - just check the FLH Standard compared to the FLHTC after you subtract the cost of the sound system and tour pak. Or a Dyna Superglide versus a Low Rider after balancing passenger pegs. After the Motor Company got past over demand market conditions in 2003, the reason some of the knock offs are priced 50% lower than a Harley is they are made with less chrome, iron and steel. For newbees getting into the sport, they think function is in all bikes, form & brand are what Harley offers ahead of the competition. Some never figure it out, because they are paussers - not to Harley but to motorcycling, putting on a mere 2,500 miles in one summer. Many learn this is not the case though, after good riding one season. You see them in the dealerships all the time. They park out back, bringing their own version of inferiority to the game. They look at all the customization they could be doing if they had bought that Harley, seat options, handle bars that make their reach more comfortable, detach sissy bars with T-bags and functional saddle bags. They have generics on their YamaSuzondaAsaki but things don't fit quite right, they rattle when they ride and the look isn't right. They had to buy generics because, in trying to save $2,000 they bought that new, still in the crate 3 year old bike only to find out there are no accessories that fit the older models in the dealerships. When they price the bike they really wanted, they start to do the math and realize the value of the Brand. But then they talk trade, or price similar models as theirs and find another hard reality, resale. Again, several dealers in the area are still selling their older model, new in the crate for less than they paid, sometimes even less then a used price they may have paid. There will be many thousands of used Harleys coming soon from the baby-boomers. With Harley's lack of product change, it will impact new sales at some point in the US, unless Harley can somehow convert the next generation into the Harley mindset. I don't know how they will do that. I recall my shovel-head riding bros saying those same things about the newbies buying up all the Evo scooters while sitting around campfires at weekend rides while swilling Pabst Blue Ribbons. On the one hand, slow to change enables better resale, better ownership value. Part interchangeability helps some. One guy I know puts on about 15-20,000 miles a year ( a benefit of being older, you don't have to work, you can ride!!) on his Road King and trades to new every year. He keeps his well fitting handle bars, touring seat, sissy bar and passenger pad that his wife likes, luggage rack and tour pak using them from bike to bike. On the other hand, in 2006 you had a twin-cam 88cu-in motor spinning a five-speed tranny. In 2007 you got a stroked 96cu-in motor, closed-loop EFI, and a 6-spd tranny. In 2008 you got Brembo brakes, steel braided lines to them, a 6-gal gas tank and drive by wire making cruise control much lower cost. Us old farts like our creature comforts when riding to Sturgis and Daytona for 10,000 miles a year whilest the younger folks work to build up social security for us to live off. Oh, and the prices really didn't go up on these bikes in all this. Change happens when you look beneath the chrome. I see younger riders trading in super sportbikes every summer once they try to ride more than across town on the back wheel. The comfort of the ride becomes a beautiful thing when it is more of what you do, ride far, ride often. I never liked any road bike, thought they were fat, ugly, bulky. But nothing looks more beautiful than my two Harley's in the garage with over 70,000 on each odometer. It's probably similar in mind set to women. When a young man, the stillehtto heel, short skirt babes with street-walker make up are attractive and they help you spend all your money on Saturday night. Fast times and wild nights, its all about them too. As you age though, a partner, someone in it for the long haul, helps raise your kids, helps you through good times & bad sometimes carrying more of the load than you, and there making memories for a life time - that is a thing of beauty. Sure, the young hard bodies are always attractive, but they don't last, they burn out, they are problematic. Everyone needs a little of that I guess. But in the long run, I'll take tried & true proven performing partners every time. I think we all get to learn this in life, some sooner than others. | ||
| Ceejay |
most of the new harley owners I've seen are ex sport bike guys. mid 30's, have a kid or two, looking to relax with the wife on a lazy sunny sunday afternoon. Sounds damn nice don't it? There's a reason that a bueller stated (I'm paraphrasing as I can't remember the exact quote) Harley makes the best cruisers in the world and I've got a bunch of trade ins to prove it. | ||
| Jammin_joules |
most of the new harley owners I've seen are ex sport bike guys. mid 30's I don't understand, the youngest of the aging baby boomers are in their lower 40's already. Hmmmm, go figure, ...another theory biting the dust. | ||
| Andella |
I am 32 and sold my '06 FLHT-I to get an 1125r. | ||
| Spatten1 |
Harley on a closed race course Interesting, my track day organization will not allow cruisers, of any brand, on the track because they are a hazard. I can't for the life of me figure out what you do with a cruiser on a race track. A Buell, I understand:  As for prices, believe it or not, it is based manufacturing costs. Basic economics of supply and demand in a (relatively) free economy don't work that way. Not when there are substitute products. I'd love a Road King, but at $20k, forget it. I'll shop elsewhere. | ||
| Spatten1 |
You guys can be in denial all you want. Harley is not. 1) Huge focus on international sales 2) Support of Buell. When the XB's sold mostly to older riders instead of the younger market, they moved on the the Rotax bike to catch the younger market coming into the high income years. The Ducati types. Harley knows what's coming, and they are doing something about it. |
