| Author | Message | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
     Diablo1 |
I think I have answered my own question. I found AF1 racing in Austin, with a EC997a eddy-current low-inertia dynamometer. Is this what you used Ratbuell?? Just wondering, I will give you all the numbers after my bike gets here and I put about 300 miles on it. Which is one day since the dyno is 180 miles away. AF1 knows what they are doing. Their dyno will show a lot lower numbers than a Dynojet. This is not a bad thing or a good thing, but you just have to realize that you can't compare numbers from two different dynos and especially from two different brands of dynos. AF1 has run and tuned the Ducati 1098 on their dyno, so you will have direct comparisons. They have also run and tuned the Aprilia 1060 (big bore kit), which pretty much kills the Ducati everywhere but at the highest rpm (at around 10,000 rpm the Duc is maybe 3 HP stronger).} | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ratbuell |
Here's the base chart. I have to monkey with the system (I'm not that familiar with it) to see if I can display the environmentals. And a/f was not flat, we did not run a sensor.  | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Zac4mac |
Damn that's smooth. heheh 50+ ft-lbs at idle Z | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ccryder |
There it is in B&W. Almost pretty enough to take home to Mom but, Mom wouldn't appreciate it ;+}. Sean from the sounds you have been making, it sounds like one of those tootsie rolls you threw into the pool turned out to be the REAL thing when you took a bite. Doesn't taste too good going down! Time2Roll Neil S. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Dalton_gang |
It looks to me like it will be a lot of fun from about 4500rpm on up.(judging from the torque curve)!!! Thanks for the post Rat | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Xb9 |
The torque line IS amazing when you really think about it and compare to others. Like an electric motor. Riding it is much more impressive than looking at the chart though  | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Elvis |
Here's a 1098 chart I found posted online:  | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ratbuell |
Hm. Both on Dynojets, both with SAE correction factors. We smooth our lines to a factor of 5, they smoothed to 4 on the Duc. Pretty much apples to apples IMO | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| V8killr |
Hm. Both on Dynojets, both with SAE correction factors. We smooth our lines to a factor of 5, they smoothed to 4 on the Duc. Pretty much apples to apples IMO Speak of apples...So Duck fans, how ya like them apples  | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Rubberdown |
Oh Jeeze ... now even Buellers are spec sheet racers | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Dbird29 |
Sorry not apples to apples. The Ducati chart is a modified bike. Termi slip ons for one mod and is the Duacti ECU a "race" ECM? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Cataract2 |
Sorry not apples to apples. The Ducati chart is a modified bike. Termi slip ons for one mod and is the Duacti ECU a "race" ECM? And the Buell is in stock form. hmmm..... | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Cataract2 |
But yeah, that Buell line is smooth. Man, I so want to ride it now. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Zac4mac |
OK, let's try this again. Size limits....  Z | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| M1combat |
What I think is important here is that both CURVES should be pretty accurate... I'll take a closer look at both and please keep in mind that I really like the 1098... I realize that a difference of a few HP aren't going to matter on the street. It's MUCH more down to rider than ESPECIALLY peak HP numbers... So here we go...
Soooo.... Which bike had more wheelspin on the dyno? Thought so... Lemme find a stellar 1098 dyno and run the numbers again though... Just in case the 1125R dyno was that as well...
That 1098#2 has the slip-ons and a "tune"... for whatever that's worth... Its peak number was 145 RWHP. So anyway... That shows us that the 1125R engine may not make the peak numbers that a 1098 does, but it makes significantly more of it's maximum power as the revs drop. Wonder what we can do with a non EPA compliant pipe? We shall see . (Message edited by Blake on December 09, 2007) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| M2nc |
M1 - I think you hit the nail on the head. I know you can not compare different dyno runs on different machines or even different days, but a pattern is a pattern. The Buell has better mid-range performance than the Ducati, even if the real numbers come down to 150rwhp to 135rwhp. Buell hit their goal and Ducati hit their goal, peak HP vs mid-range HP. Not one better than the other, just different focus of street versus track. The true winner will be the one that makes a bigger profit. A GP Championship looks good on the mantle, but doesn't make a red cent. If it did, Ducati would have made more profit over the past twenty years than Harley. So if 1125R out sells the 1098 in the US, and the reverse in England, who will make more money? I believe in Germany and France the 1125R will give the 1098 a run for its money since both seems to be Buell friendly. I say it again, time will tell, but the victor will not be the winner of a race or the spec sheet king. The winner will be judged in dollars, pounds, yens, and euros etc. Personally, I am rooting for both to make a hearty profit. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| M1combat |
Thanks for the edit Blake ... One of these days I'll figure out how to post stuff on this board . You'd think I'd have it figured out after more than 8500 posts... | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Bearly |
I'm just a bit sleepy, but doesn't Ducati claim 160hp at the crank for the 1098. And your saying that my new little Buelli is going to pull the same numbers, or close? My other bikes and my car are going to get rusted. (and my car is aluminum and plastic). Holy cannoli Batman, that's sweet! Thanks all for the factoid. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Jimidan |
For all of you "knowledgeable" guys out there that think dynoing a brand new engine is a good idea, I have one word for you: "micro-welding" Read what a real expert, Ron Dickey (who has forgotten more about this than most of these guys will ever know), of Axtell says about this here: http://www.axtellsales.com/RonsDocs/Ring%20Seal.pd f | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Jimidan |
What M2nc said! The 1125R and the 1098 were designed with different purposes in mind, as the specs indicate. The 1125R could make a lot more power if you were to tune it to bunch that power into the upper third of its powerband, which is where the Ducati makes its HP. That should make the duck have higher peak dyno numbers (by some accounts) by design, and it should give it a greater presence on the race track. But design is always about compromise, and what makes it a more formidable race bike, makes it less of a street bike. Buell designed its bike for a very wide and flat torque curve...its the old 'real-world HP' thing. Anybody who has ever piloted a bike with that much torque or more (my 88" has 100 ft/lbs at 2500 rpms), knows the advantage of it on the public highways. Then there is a matter of ergonomics that make the Buell shine even more on the street, while the Ducati turns into a rack (i.e., An instrument of torture on which the victim's body was stretched) after about an hour of riding. I have a 996R and I have the neck problems to prove it. Even though they will be going after some of the same market share, these two bikes have different strengths and weaknesses, which brings me to the oranges and tangerines (not apples) thing when it comes to comparing dyno charts. Erik Buell knew where he wanted his engine to end up on the dyno sheet going in, and he could have tuned it to behave more like an 1098 if he had wanted to. It looks like he was very successful in achieving his goals. Personally, I like the characteristics of the 1125R better on paper for a street bike, and I know I am going to really like it when I get feel it on the road. Also, I never really liked Big Dick Contests...what do they really prove? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Davefl |
Jimi, Big dick contest only prove how small yours really is  | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Madduck |
Jimi, If you had read the Axtell article you would have noted that the first thing Ron did after building the engine was to put it on the engine dyno. All engine buiilders do about the same thing, run in their handywork on an engine dyno so that these problems get taken care of before they get to the customer. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Wolfridgerider |
I never really liked Big Dick Contests...what do they really prove? It proves that a I don't have a future in porn....  | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ceejay |
uh jimi. That's two words. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Bigdaddy |
Wolf, You've joined a very exclusive club -- you owe me a fricking keyboard. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| M1combat |
One more note... An engine only needs to make power where you're going to use it. OK one more... When you're leaned over near the limit you can only use as much power as the remaining grip will support. Those things said... What RPM does a 10K RPM V2 come out of a corner at (at race speeds)? 7K? 6K? 8K? I'd bet it's about 7-8K and Ducati knows this. On the street? I'd bet it's more often than not about 6-7K and Buell knows this. One more little side note... Almost all racers will ask for more handling LONG before more power as long as they're in the ballpark with power already. I think the 1125R should do just fine on the track against a 1098. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
"What RPM does a 10K RPM V2 come out of a corner at (at race speeds)? 7K? 6K? 8K?" Depends on the gear being used, which depends largely upon how fast the corner exit speed is. In lower gears, the engine RPM can be less and still avoid excessive wheelie effect. When Ducati takes a 1098 racing, its rev limit will be significantly higher than shown in the above dyno charts. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Spatten1 |
All engine buiilders do about the same thing, run in their handywork on an engine dyno so that these problems get taken care of before they get to the customer. True, but his point is that they do not run them at peak power right after assembly. They do heat cycle break-in runs first, getting time on the engine before reefing on it. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Socoken |
So, even though the bike was run on the dyno in 4th gear, the 141rwhp number stands? It wouldnt have been less or more accurate in 5th or 6th? I dont know a whole lot about dynos, so Im just wondering if the numbers add up. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
It may likely have been higher if run in 5th and/or 6th gear. |
