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Elvis
| | Posted on Friday, December 07, 2007 - 01:41 pm: | 
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Very well said Slaughter! Hopefully they'll be able to build on last year.
The interest Richie Morris is already showing combined with the fact that the HP2 seems almost designed for the series may hint that we'll see the level of competition cranked up a few notches.
The TV coverage has been very entertaining (though I wish they'd show it at a reasonable hour and show a little more).
If they can stick it out, I hope to see interest grow. It can't hurt to talk it up with your friends, maybe share any DVD recordings you have.
I'm hoping to get out to at least a couple races next year (I've been checking the site, but I haven't seen the 2008 schedule posted yet).
As for 1125R's, Richie Morris' team is clearly interested, and I think I saw Mutation Racer post somewhere that he was hoping to be riding an 1125R in it this year.
. . . and that may bring us back to the idea of an ECM. I wonder if Buell is developing a special "Moto-ST ECM" that would make it as easy as possible for dealers to be compliant with the horsepower limit. That would make a lot of sense.
Any anonymous comments on that point? |
Slaughter
| | Posted on Friday, December 07, 2007 - 03:12 pm: |
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Elvis,
UNOFFICIALLY (my opinion, no factory confirmation... yadda yadda yadda) - the 1125R should be able to use the full-on race ECM that is fully programmable - same as XB9, XB12, XBRR.
Doubt we'll be seeing a retail "race ECM" for the 1125R the way we did for the tubers and XB's. Bummer but there have been too many restrictions placed on the factory to where now they're only allowed to sell aftermarket parts that meet DOT and EPA restrictions.
I am NOT AN AUTHORITY - this is just stuff I've heard. Given what the full race ECM controls, I'm betting that something similar will be out (if not out already) for the legit race bikes and teams.
(Message edited by slaughter on December 07, 2007)
(Message edited by slaughter on December 07, 2007) |
Elvis
| | Posted on Friday, December 07, 2007 - 03:58 pm: |
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Interesting. I don't know the first thing about programming an ECM, so my feeling would be: "give me a good one that will give me broad power but not go above the 118 HP limit of Moto-ST"
But it does make a lot more sense to have something that the riders can adjust themselves (and fit to their riding style and equipment).
I guess these days programming ECMs is sort of like what we used to do jetting carbs in the good old days. I wouldn't even begin to try making adjustments to ECM's, but I guess it's just part of what racers do these days.
I hadn't even though about it from that perspective. |
Court
| | Posted on Friday, December 07, 2007 - 04:30 pm: |
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>>>>I guess these days programming ECMs is sort of like what we used to do jetting carbs in the good old days.
Kind of.
A carb had a built in de facto safety device in that if you were way wrong . . . you'd either flood with or stave the engine of fuel and you'd go nowhere.
An ECM, particulary these "spy" thingies is akin to giving a blind epileptic a gun . . . you can do some serious damage. |
Slaughter
| | Posted on Friday, December 07, 2007 - 04:41 pm: |
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Wot Court sed!
I didn't understand the finer points of 8-bit programs and didn't realize that full range was NOT 100 percent but was 255 counts (representing 2^8 bits) - and that if your fuel call needed max value, and you weren't paying attention and "bumped" 255 to 256, that actually meant that you were calling for ZERO fuel at that RPM/Throttle position. (The values rotated). Make sense?
I thought I'd be clever and put all my values into an Excel table and do the math and manipulations there, save as comma separated values and send to the ECM... and didn't limit the values to 255. On the track, I found I had an RPM band from 7000 to 7700 and from about 3/4 to 7/8 throttle with damned near zero fuel. That meant that had I held it at that throttle too long, I coulda melted the motor!
I got lucky.
We didn't see this on the dyno in a four hour session but I could feel it on the track.
You can imagine what Buell would have to be dealing with in selling this to the retail customers.
ECM spy gives you a very similar level of control and if you don't understand what is being done by the module, you CAN burn holes in pistons. If you're lucky, it'll be the other way - too rich. You're only fouling plugs and crudding up the system, not melting motors. |
Bobup
| | Posted on Friday, December 07, 2007 - 04:55 pm: |
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"A carb had a built in de facto safety device in that if you were way wrong . . . you'd either flood with or stave the engine of fuel and you'd go nowhere. "
court i disagree
I used to have several Yamaha twins (2 strokers, early to mid 70's), and if the carbs weren't right you could do damage...I have blown my share of pistons. Even once while just out riding. Pulled the plug and rode home on one cylinder...quite messy, but got home (no cell phones back then).
Lean would run great, just not for very long! 2 strokes were fussy about jetting. |
Davegess
| | Posted on Friday, December 07, 2007 - 05:10 pm: |
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two strokes don't count- they have there own magic voodoo |
Bobup
| | Posted on Friday, December 07, 2007 - 05:28 pm: |
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did not see that disclaimer.....must be blind in my old age LOL |
Mutation_racer
| | Posted on Friday, December 07, 2007 - 05:37 pm: |
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Elvis, that would be correct. the XBRR is on the lift right now getting it winter tear down. and the first 1125R that we get in thats not sold should be our new MOTO-st bike. riders would be keith delk from V.A. and my self. aka rebels and yankees racing. The 8 hour race was great, to bad we only made it 4hr and 40 min. The same thing that happened to the james gang last year happened to us. the part that sucked was some of the big teams at that point were 2 laps behind us (daytona, james gang no.2 bike, the bmw team, and we just past mister daytona for 6th place. like they say its 8hr long any thing can happen. BUT WILL BE BACK |
Blake
| | Posted on Friday, December 07, 2007 - 06:42 pm: |
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I'd MUCH rather see the air-cooled bikes in Moto-ST. But if someone does run an 1125R, surely they could program the ignition advance and fuel delivery to make near the 118 HP limit over a VERY wide RPM range. |
Elvis
| | Posted on Friday, December 07, 2007 - 07:28 pm: |
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I didn't understand the finer points of 8-bit programs and didn't realize that full range was NOT 100 percent but was 255 counts (representing 2^8 bits) - and that if your fuel call needed max value, and you weren't paying attention and "bumped" 255 to 256, that actually meant that you were calling for ZERO fuel at that RPM/Throttle position. (The values rotated). Make sense?
Well I already knew my body was too old for racing. Thanks for letting me know my mind is also too feeble. 
the first 1125R that we get in thats not sold should be our new MOTO-st bike. riders would be keith delk from V.A. and my self. aka rebels and yankees racing.
Cool! Best of luck in 2008!
Only three months until Daytona! |
Slaughter
| | Posted on Friday, December 07, 2007 - 10:58 pm: |
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Heck, just drop the rev limit down to where the HP is at the class limit and go racing. No need to do anything fancy-schmancy.
Mutation/Anthony - next year, kick ASS and take names! |
Blake
| | Posted on Saturday, December 08, 2007 - 11:38 am: |
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For the simple approach, I like the throttle stop adjustment better I think. Killing off so much of the rev range would seem to really hurt track performance due to shift-point, gearing, and top speed effects. |
Bigblock
| | Posted on Saturday, December 08, 2007 - 04:08 pm: |
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Better yet, drop power with a timing adjustment at the rpm it starts to reach 118 hp, and keep it adjusted at 118hp to redline, that way you have full torque until the 118 hp figure, at which point you have max allowable hp to redline, giving the widest possible usable powerband with the highest possible torque output.
Definitely a bit trickier and more time intensive to set-up than a throttle stop, but with bigger rewards... |
Slaughter
| | Posted on Monday, December 10, 2007 - 08:59 am: |
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Yeah... I'm lazy, I've never worked with a similar bike - and it WOULD be a terrible WASTE of 2000RPM!
Drop compression, re-map, a couple afternoons on the dyno and she'd be good to go.
Really excited about the possiblity of Richie Morris Racing and the James Gang going out to play in the coming season. |
Diablo1
| | Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2007 - 11:58 am: |
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Why would the Buell 1125 be eligible for the Moto-ST series when the Aprilia RSVR and Ducati 1098 aren't? You think the Buell is really a naked bike? |
Ebear
| | Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2007 - 03:32 pm: |
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I would say yes since the "PODS" don't really create side curtains,nor do the add to the streamlining effect....in fact they cause a certain amount of drag but obviously the least amount that could be designed for.An "RR" or at least a "nonnaked" bike would have it's belly covered as well as front and forward sides.....
(sorry ,just lurking!) |
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