| Author | Message | ||
     Zac4mac |
Looks to me like the 1125 is ready to field as far as racing is concerned. It's just not quite civil enough to send to the street yet. Z | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Regarding the power&speed of the 1098 vs the IL4s..... I personally have experienced this, regrading a base 1098 vs a '07 R1, both stock : 6th gear and 180 km/h, the gas was opened at 100%. Up to 280 km/h both bikes were side by side. At 280km/h the R1 was starting pulling away. This is really impressive staff for a V-2! | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I personally have experienced this, regrading a base 1098 vs a '07 R1, both stock : 6th gear and 180 km/h, the gas was opened at 100%. Up to 280 km/h both bikes were side by side. At 280km/h the R1 was starting pulling away. Just re-read the Mastebike Shootout in Cycleworld and the top speed reported on the 1098S (yes, that S model appears yet again--intake, exhaust & ECU mods vs. base 1098)was 172 mph. your quoted 280km/h equals 174 mph on a base, stock 1098, which according to your figure, is faster than the hot-rodded S model. Either you were going downhill or you rounded up to 280 km/h. BTW, in the same Shootout, the 1098S DID take the 1/4 mile over ALL the literbikes with a 9.79. It also has the most torque of any of the bikes tested, 83.1 ft.-lb. Is this just a coincidence? | ||
| Vagelis46 |
280 km/h on the clock. The base 1098 goes to 299km/h on the clock. I was riding the 1098, and a friend on the R1. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Clock=speedometer? Speedometer has nothing to do with the speed maximum of a car or motorcycle. But I will give you that speedos tend to have a margin of error that increases as speed increase, so 280 on the speedo might be within the ability of the 1098. | ||
| Anonymous |
The 1125 can be raced in many places and will do very well in the hands of dedicated teams. It will also be a spectacularly succesful amateur racing bike bvecause it is so easy to ride on unfamiliar tracks and through traffic. Just like the XBRR which some people poo-pooed while others (Grenoble, Moto Macadam, Deeley, Bartels) rode to victories, or the absurdly maligned STT which just won the Moto Tour in France over all brands, including KTM Super Duke, CBR, R1, etc.. Those that race do it, those that pose whine. The 1125 and it's derivatives are going to kick ass. Believe me, or believe the whiners. | ||
| Slaughter |
Just RODE a freaking 1125R yesterday and I'm betting that when the bike is pushed hard and tweaked up a bit for the track, LOOK OUT! I'll actually write up a report of sorts but after riding in 40-50 gusting winds with blowing ROCKS, my hay fever kept me awake all night. One comment NOBODY makes is the fairings. With the SEVERE gusts and wind we were fighting yesterday, you really COULD get down on the tank, and tucked in, you would be surprised at how well you could get out of the breeze - even rounding the skidpad when winds were literally obscuring visibility with the sand that was HISSING off your helmet, you could still get SHELTER behind the fairing. Yeah, the bike isn't all about aerodynamics but for one REALLY appreciated the functionality of the fairing yesterday! More to follow. | ||
| M1combat |
 Can't wait... | ||
| Blake |
"...and its derivatives..." Then the next model should be called the Buell "Calculus." Just like the 1125R should be named the "Crusader." | ||
| Trojan |
It will also be a spectacularly succesful amateur racing bike because it is so easy to ride on unfamiliar tracks and through traffic A very bold claim indeed, especially given that the bike hasn't turned a wheel in race trim yet. I hope you are right, but I cannot see a class at either AMA or world level (or UK race classes) where this bike will fit in and race competitively. Club level may of course be different and I hope it succeeds like you say. It will certainly need a chain conversion kit and other race parts to be available before it can even enter the fray, so I wouldn't expect to see any overnight successes. The 1125 and it's derivatives are going to kick ass. Believe me, or believe the whiners. I'll believe the results when they start to come in. By the way, there is a world of difference between whining and realism. Don't confuse the two. The XBRR was built specifically to compete in Formula Xtreme, where it bombed for various reasons. I congratulate everyone that has had success with the XBRR in other classes and formulae, but those results are bonuses and not a reason to class the bike as achieving its aims. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Trojan, you talk ALOT of shit for a Badweb sponsor. I for one are a bit tired of hearing you piss on everyone's parade. Cheers. | ||
| Trojan |
Trojan, you talk ALOT of shit for a Badweb sponsor. I for one are a bit tired of hearing you piss on everyone's parade. Cheers. I think you'll find that what I stated above is fact, but if you solid have facts to show otherwise plese prove me wrong. I am not endowed with rose tinted glasses everytime the Buell name is mentioned like some people seem to be, so tend to treat outrageous claims as just that until there is evidence to show otherwise. I remember the great press hullaballoo last year when the XBRR was launched, and the claims that were being made for that bike and what it would achieve. Whilst I know the 1125 is already a much better proposition to state it will be a spectacular success at this stage is counting a few chickens before they hatch don't ya think? Nobody would be happier than me to see the 1125 succeed in racing, and nobody would have been happier than me to see the XBRR succeed in the series it was designed for. Unfortunately history proves it didn't, so maybe anony should temper his claims until there is a basis for them. My issue was that we should wait and see instead of making exagerated claims and boasts before the bike turns a wheel. It is very hard to piss on a parade that hasn't even started yet, but feel free to call me any names you like (Message edited by trojan on October 19, 2007) | ||
| Rfischer |
Um, er.....and you would be the bloke who insisted his aftermarket 'belt tensioner' doohickey fixed an inherent design flaw in a Buell drive-train but was unable to produce engineering data to substantiate that claim, yet dismissed extensive BMC engineering and mathematical modeling data on the question as mere "opinion"... Think I'll go with the factory "opinion" on that, and all other matters, until you or any other aftermarket folks can produce validated evidence to the contrary. Sorry, but I'm a facts sorta guy and one fact is already established vis a vis the racing potential of the 1125R: a world-class road racer in the employ of Buell has hot-lapped one and a GSXR1000 control bike and "opined" via stopwatch that he could not lap quicker on the race-replica GX'r. That's pretty good empirical evidence of the 1125R's competitiveness. In my "opinion" of course...  | ||
| Trojan |
Sorry, but I'm a facts sorta guy and one fact is already established vis a vis the racing potential of the 1125R: a world-class road racer in the employ of Buell has hot-lapped one and a GSXR1000 control bike and "opined" via stopwatch that he could not lap quicker on the race-replica GX'r. That's pretty good empirical evidence of the 1125R's competitiveness. If you think that that is a good measure of how an 1125R will compete against race prepped Jap 4's and Ducatis then you are easily swayed my friend. At present we can't even get a firm delivery date for the 1125R in this country', so dreaming of race wins is a way off yet. I'm off.... (Message edited by trojan on October 19, 2007) | ||
| Court |
The great thing about this . . . . is that WE WILL KNOW. Cool. Off to meet Buell friends from Amsterdam! Enjoy yourselves. | ||
| Friedone |
Bravo to Trojan. Someone on here objective and realistic. I remember seeing people here bad mouth the Aprilia, which uses the same make engine as the new buell. Now everyone thinks the 1125 is the be all & end all. Personally, I'll be curious to see if they are at last competitive with the 600's, let alone a 1098. | ||
| Court |
>>>> Aprilia, which uses the same make engine as the new buell. 1) Uh . . okay. 2) Who here has badmouthed Aprilia? The closest thing, and it certainly wasn't badmouthing, is when a BRP/Rotax engineer stated that the Buell design allowed them to start fresh and "not make the same mistakes" they had on the Aprilia. Even I READ that as meaning having the chance to take what had been learned and improve on it. You and half the world are waiting to see. . . in fact, scores of folks who have never dreamed they'd own a Buell are all of a sudden looking to buy 1125r's and find out. In terms of raw numbers the 1125r is very much a match for the 1098. Problem to date is that there don't appear to be any 1098's in the world . . they are all 1098S at $20,000 so it's roughly like comparing a car to one twice the price. If you find a straight 1098 test, we'd love to see it. I've been reading all I can on both bikes. A kid who works for me bought the Tri-Colore 1098 and it's a damn good looking bike. My bet is that you won't have to wait long for the magzines to match the Buell up to a host of worthy competitors.
You owe me a keyboard . . . it's the internet. If it were objective and realistic people wouldn't be hiding behind goofy screenames. . . Court Canfield | ||
| Not_purple_s2 |
If the 1125 can make 146hp at the crank in street trim, I'm willing to bet that it can be raced tuned for some impressive numbers. Buell pulled 50% more power out of the XB for the XBRR. (Though that did take A LOT of work but they were working with an existing engine that was never intended for the type of racing they were building it for.) I think it would a lot easier to get 30-40% out of the 1125R which, it has already been alluded to by Buell, has lots of potential. The engine is purposefully tuned for down low torque and power in it's stock form. Personally, I can't wait 'till someone turns one into a fire breathing full race monster. | ||
| Rfischer |
I was gonna rise to Friedone's troll, but common-sense has prevailed. Court, you are waaay too civil, Man!  | ||
| Trojan |
Buell pulled 50% more power out of the XB for the XBRR. (Though that did take A LOT of work but they were working with an existing engine that was never intended for the type of racing they were building it for.) This is a complete misconception and a tribute to Buell marketing. The XBRR engine is not the same as your XB or even a 'modified' XB engine in the normal sense of the word. It does not share crankcases, barrels, heads, pistons or countless other important engine & chassis parts. Comparing the XBRR to the stock XB is like comparing the R1 to Rossi's M1. Erik Buell has stated quite clearly that the 1125 has not been designed with racing in mind (otherwise they would have gone for 1200cc surely?), and it will need a lot of work to make it track ready and competitive. Anyone who thinks that you could take a stock 1125 and win races has obviously never built a race bike. I am sure that the 1125 can be made into a competitive bike with further tuning etc. and I would love to see a full on factory race effort, which is what it would take to make it competitive at the highest level. I do not expect to see it being competitive straight out of the box in anything other than race series catering for almost stock bikes such as MotoST. Before all you fundamentalists get on my case, that isn't a criticism of the 1125 but is simply fact. If you build a bike to appeal to road riders and make it a great road bike then it will take work to make it more focussed as a race bike. You can't have it both ways I'm afraid. The Ducati 1098S IS competitive in Superstock form almost straight from the box. It is a race bike with a nodding acknowledgement to road riders. It carries the equipment to fulfil its intended role, which is why it costs so much more than the 1125 will. If Buell want to build a truly competitive club racing bike then I would expect them to build a homologation 1200cc special with chain drive and further tuning, costing around the same or more as the 1098S. By the way, by next year the goal posts will have moved and the 1098R will be the race version that everyone will be using at anything above club level, so comparisons with the 1098 or 1098S will be pretty meaningless in race terms. | ||
| Reepicheep |
The only beefs here I ever heard here with Aprilla were with regards to: 1) Financial stability of the company 2) Dealer network / parts availabilty. Neither of those two concerns seem to be high for the 1125r. And everyone here always seemed to talk about how great "that Rotax motor in the Aprilla" was... almost to the point that I can't name really one unique thing about an Aprilla bike *besides* the engine. It's... uh... fully faired. And has... like.... good breaks and suspension... and stuff. Nothing against them, I have always liked Aprilla bikes. But aside from the fact that they were a water cooled twin in a sportbike configuration... I don't know what else is noteworthy about them. | ||
| Jlnance |
If it were objective and realistic people wouldn't be hiding behind goofy screenames. You rang? | ||
| Xlcrguy |
"Anyone who thinks that you could take a stock 1125 and win races has obviously never built a race bike" Anyone who thinks that you could take a stock CBR600 (or brand xyz - take your pick) and win races has obviously never built a race bike. From a club-racing standpoint, I'd take a 1125R over a 1098S any day of the week. That's a huge cashola delta. Think of what you'd could do with an additional 5-7 grand! | ||
| Not_purple_s2 |
Trojan, I know the XBRR was far removed from the stock XB engine. But it was still based on the same engine. And good thing too cause it lead to some nice improvements on the 08 XB's. But an air-cooled, push-rod, single pin crank v-twin is at a serious disadvantage against inline 4's and liquid cooled 4-valve twins on a race track. I think the 1125R is a much better base for a race engine. Of course the 1125R will not be able to compete with race prepped liter bikes right out of the box, no stock bike could. It's therefore more relevant to compare bikes in stock form. 1125R, 1098, R1 GSXR1000, ect. By your own admission those bikes are more race bike and less road bike. Whereas the 1125R is more road bike (or at least equally balanced) Now this isn't like the case of past XB's where the engine was a limiting factor making for a great street bike but a mediocre race bike. In the case of the 1125 it seems that the engine was designed with plenty of room for improvement. I do hope that a need for a race ready 1125R emerges and that Buell delivers. I don't expect to see a factory race team. Buell seems to be more about promoting privateers teams. | ||
| Court |
Matt: I agree with everything you say. The \i"Anyone who thinks that you could take a stock 1125 and win races has obviously never built a race bike" } is dead on accurate . . . it applies to Honda, Buell, Yamaha, Ducati and the rest of them. Anyone who tries to tell you otherwise, to quote you, has never built a race bike. The Buell, admittedly, has further to go than the $20,000 Ducati. Buell is also not recovering from having to furlough 100 workers because of built up dealer inventories and dealer unwillingness to accept any further deliveries. Buell recognizes, to their credit I think, that Buells are ridden by the riding public on the street. I think the Ducati is art. I also think it's a fabulously fun bike to watch race. I also think it's a fairly •••••• bike for someone (say the 12,000 folks who bought Buells last year) to ride on the street. My cousin bought a MH900e (FULL DISCLOSURE: I have an entire collection of all the swag I got as a gift from Ducati) and I think it's absolute art! You just can't sit on it and ride it for more than 30 minutes. Buell, in the business of feeding families an putting kids through college, is in touch with the reality that they build street motorcycles. . . damn good ones. I'll add a personnel OPINION by saying I think some folks armed with 1125r's will garner some attention in racing circles in the next year. Court | ||
| Court |
By the way . . . Aprilia is a very interesting company with a most fascinating heritage. I've got a number of books about them if anyone is wanting to read up I can make reccomendations. . . they have an incredible heritage. | ||
| Jaimec |
By the way, it looks as though Ducati has moved the goal posts to a whole 'nother State: http://tinyurl.com/yvtuxe Fun stuff, but Erik has it right. I ride on the STREET. Race bikes are for racers and the poseurs that think they are. | ||
| Kenneth |
WOW... and it's only 40 grand | ||
| Jaimec |
Kenneth: Yup! A whopping $25,000 cheaper than a Desmosedici!  Actually, it's in the same price range (so far) as the Revolution-engined Roehr sportbike (which you can't get yet anyway). | ||
| Court |
It's a gorgeous motorcycle . . . totally unrelated to anything that Buell is now or has ever tried to do. It's not a street bike, it'd be poor in that role. It's not a race bike, it'd pretty much require all the stuff Matt mentioned just like everything else. It's a gorgeous bike and I'll bet my 3 pals who jumped at the chance to by the first F1 MV Agustas at $45,000 will each have one pronto. Drop me a note and let me know . . . I'll be out riding. P.S. - I'll ••••• out at a certain price too. . . with the new Monster coming out, I'd be game for an "old" Monster for a run about bike. . . no disputing what a gorgeous design it is. Cool that Miguel and David both went to the same school of design, of course, in Pasadena.
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