| Author | Message | ||
     Vagelis46 |
PAGE 1 Buell 1125R By Martin Fitz-Gibbons Photography by Double Red Legendary Buell chassis know-how meets brand-new water-cooled V-twin. Is this the American sportsbike we ve been waiting for? Out of turn six s dip and the climb uphill starts. Tucked in deep behind bulbous screen, the V-twin boom drops an octave as third gear slickly snicks to fourth. Beyond the clocks the world has been reduced to three primary colours: yellow earth bisected by black tarmac vanishing into crystal blue Californian sky. This is Laguna Seca, one of North America s most historic, iconic circuits. A skeletal bridge flies past overhead as the gradient levels off and I m as hard on the brakes as I dare. Down to third, try to straightline the gentle turn seven, down to second and tip left into one of the most infamous corners in the world: the Corkscrew. Keep as tight a line as I can, then pick the bike upright and pray that memory has put me on line. There s no other way to prepare for it you re aiming for the apex of a right-hander that doesn t exist yet, hidden over a crest so sharp it really does feel like you re dropping off the edge of the world. As stomach rises up to meet teeth, the corner comes into view. There s just enough time to imagine an expletive as right knee clumsily clunks off kerb, then it s up to third gear and stored breath is released. Survived. In less than two minutes it ll all happen again. Fantastic Appropriately, my first American race circuit is being tackled on an American sportsbike Buell s new 1125R. In their 25th year Buell, famous for employing Harley-Davidson engines in their own sporty chassis, have finally made the switch to an all-new, liquid-cooled engine. Designed and built from scratch by Austrian firm RBP-Rotax, it s a huge change for the company. Gone are the Firebolt s earthquake vibrations at tickover, the stunted 7000rpm redline and the clumsy five-speed gearbox. It feels all sort of normal. And that s why, after my first couple of sessions, it s the track s character that sticks in my mind more than the bike s. Laguna is overflowing with the stuff, an old-school circuit built out of passion, rewarding riders who put in the time to learn it. A track this hairy simply could not be created by a committee sitting around a computer simulator. In the same way, the Firebolt this 1125R replaces was built not because it was provably the best solution, Decent screen and ergonomics. A practical Buell? Well, maybe the 1125R feels much more like a regular sportsbike than the firebolt it replaces it s certainly as close to the mainstream as Buell have ever ventured but from ideas and desire, giving back to those who invested effort. And its character, too, was unforgettable though unlike Laguna, not always in a good way. In comparison, the 1125R feels more like a regular sportsbike it s certainly as close to the mainstream as Buell have ever ventured. The modern engine revs to 10,500rpm, the six-speed gearbox changes up and down with little fuss and in the pitlane the bikes idle without threatening to shake themselves from their sidestands. It s not sickly-smooth, though. Despite three (yes, three) balance shafts there are still vibes, starting halfway through the range and building in ferocity as revs rise. If you want to hold on to the redline you really will be holding on tight. Thankfully, you don t necessarily have to. The torque delivery isn t so much a curve as a flat line, meaning it manages to deliver something near its claimed 82 lb.ft peak almost everywhere. Through Laguna s tricky two-fast-rights, two-fastlefts complex, the 1125R holds third gear comfortably just wind on and roll off as necessary. It s the kind of full-fat midrange that can makes the top end seem comparatively weak, only because there s so much below. Buell claim 146bhp, which the big questions 1 2 3 Is thIs the end of aIR-cooled Buells? Not immediately. The 1125R represents the first in a new line designed for a different Buell customer . The company refers to it as a platform , which suggests we ll be seeing a range of water-cooled machines in the future. The aircooled Lightnings and Ulysses will continue, though the Firebolt has been dropped for 2008. Rotax? dIdn t they BuIld apRIlIa s 1000cc V-twIn? Is It lIke that? Austrian engine-builders Rotax did indeed create Aprilia s RSV engine, and they ve also built other motors such as BMW s recent F800S parallel twin. This new Buell engine dubbed Helicon is a cleansheet design though, rather than an evolution of any existing motor. so Is thIs a pRopeR thReat to ducatI and apRIlIa? Sort of, but not quite. The generous riding position and flat torque make it a road bike for occasional track excursions, rather than an out-andout superbike. In a straight line it might be there or thereabouts with the Aprilia RSV-R, but the 1098 already makes at the wheel what Buell claim at the crank. And the 1125 s still not completely free of those Buell quirks. WWW.BIkeMAgAzINe.co.Uk NoVeMBeR 07 45 PAGE 2 ignition first ride water-cooled buell v-twin Right knee clumsily clunks off kerb, then it s up to third gear and stored breath is released. Survived. In less than two minutes it ll all happen again. Fantastic feels a little optimistic I d guess at more like 125bhp on the dyno. Maybe not quite Ducati 1098-fast, but good for around 160mph. Though not today. Down the start/ finish straight and tipping into the fast, blind turn one less famous, but probably scarier for racers than the Corkscrew the bike s in fourth gear as you climb a slight rise aiming for another invisible apex at something approaching 120mph. Trying to keep things accurate, you squeeze hard on the brake lever while running back to the edge of the track and the 1125R stops with far more enthusiasm than the Firebolt ever mustered. That s down to the new eight-piston caliper (yes, eight) and single massive front brake disc. Compared to the generallyaccepted solution of two discs and two four-piston calipers, it s a strange way of doing things. However, by mounting the disc on the rim the wheel can deal with braking forces better, so the whole set-up can be made lighter Buell reckon it s 2.5kg lighter than Suzuki s GSX-R1000K6 front wheel. Reducing mass here (unsprung weight) is one of Erik Buell s core principles, allowing the bike to turn with less effort. Overall dry weight is impressive at just 170kg, and combined with the ludicrous 21 steering angle (the CBR600RR s is 23 ) the 1125R turns quickly, but with a surprising stability. The more than 180 turn two, also known as the Andretti Hairpin, can either be taken with a doubleapex or with a single late apex, but whatever you choose the Buell obeys. Exhausted but thrilled by a day s riding at a MotoGP-standard circuit, the prospect of riding round California was tantalising. So much suggested a great road bike: the generous ergonomics left no body part aching; the large screen protected as promised; and the engine s flexible power delivery would be perfect for the road. Unfortunately, just as Laguna highlighted the bike s positives, the road threw its faults into stark relief. After just 15 miles the bike grinds to a halt, an apparent electrical fault rendering it no more useful than a not particularly attractive ornament. Thanks to the wonder of New Bike Launch Magic, a replacement appears, but a few more miles reveal poor fuelling in the lower half of the 46 www.bikemagazine.co.uk november 07 PAGE 3 At the heart of the 1125R lies a water-cooled 72 V-twin engine created by Austrian firm Rotax. It s good but fuelling is poor at low revs Showa forks and rear shock will be revised on production bikes for better road manners Some testers experienced problems with teeth shearing off drive belts revs. Sitting at a constant 90mph creates so many bar vibes it s physically painful to hold on, and as we slow down for some scenic roads through a military base, the engine throws enough heat out of the right-hand side I start getting concerned my boot will melt. The bike has a habit of clonking uneasily over bumps too rather than riding them smoothly. An on-hand suspension technician from Buell quietly reveals the final production bikes will come on different-spec forks and shocks. Apparently, the equipment supplied by Showa for these preproduction bikes did not meet Buell s original specifications, resulting in overstiff fork springs and shocks with too much rebound damping. Back at the track there are tales of more electrical problems, brake discs warping and even teeth shearing off drive belts Buell s particular Achilles heel. It seems that while the 1125R has resolved many of the issues that put off mainstream customers, there s still work to be done. There s an unfinished air to the whole bike, as if Buell have launched it before it s really ready. Which is a shame, because it could and should satisfyingly fill the gap between road-biased twins like BMW s R1200S and crippling superbikes such as the Ducati 1098. But until the production bikes make it to the UK with finalised suspension and fuelling apparently in November and until we know whether reliability will continue to be an issue for Buell, it s hard to recommend the 1125R with confidence. the spec sheet BUell1125R Price Top speed Power Torque Engine Bore x stroke Compression ratio Fuel system Transmission Frame Front suspension Adjustment Rear suspension Adjustment Front brake Rear brake Front; rear tyres Dry weight Wheelbase Rake/trail Seat height Fuel tank Insurance Colours Available from 8495 160mph(est) 146bhp@9800rpm(claimed) 82lb.ft@8000rpm(claimed) 1125cc,8v,dohc,72 V-twin 103mmx67.5mm 12.3:1 fuelinjection 6-speed,beltdrive aluminiumtwin-spar 47mmusdtelescopicforks preload,compression,rebound monoshock preload,compression,rebound 375mmdisc/eight-pistoncaliper 240mmdisc/two-pistoncaliper 120/70ZR17;180/55ZR17 170kg(claimed) 1384mm 21 /83.8mm 775mm 21.2litres NU17 Hopeyoulikeblack Buell,www.buell.co.uk www.BikemagaZiNe.co.UkNoVemBeR07 | ||
| Jaimec |
Interesting. From quickly skimming the article there are a couple of inaccuracies that jumped right out at me. First off, the engine was NOT designed and built by BRP Rotax, it was designed by Buell and built by Rotax. Also, the bike hasn't been released yet! I guess the author was hunting down another cup of coffee or something when the Buell reps were repeating for the umpteenth time that they were all testing pre-production units. I wonder what else I'll see when I actually read the entire article carefully? | ||
| Davegess |
I find it interesting that this fellow thought the bike great on the track and bad on the street while Road Racing World had the opposite opinion. Just goes to show that you have to take all these reviews with a grain of salt. | ||
| Spatten1 |
"teeth shearing off drive belts Buell's particular Achilles heel" Anyone else write about this? I hope he is mistaken. That would be BAD for the 1125, as far as Buell having a quirky and unreliable image. | ||
| Paint_shaker |
from the article... "The aircooled Lightnings and Ulysses will continue, though the Firebolt has been dropped for 2008." Funny... I just bought a 2008 Firebolt... Did someone forget to tell the factory?? LOL | ||
| Spatten1 |
I believe they dropped it in Europe, but still available in the US. | ||
| Blake |
Jamie, My understanding is that Rotax did the lion's share of engine design, not Buell. Buell mainly provided design specifications. Buell did provide some in depth engineering input as well. It would be accurate to say that Buell had a hand in the engine design. | ||
| Jaimec |
I'm pretty sure I read different right here on BadWeb. If Anonymous sees this, maybe he can chime in... | ||
| Fresnobuell |
The 9R was dropped, the 12R still exists in 2008 | ||
| Blake |
Jaime, Then what you read was mistaken. | ||
| Trojan |
Bike is one of the more 'sedate' and polite of the UK bike mags. If they found things to criticise then I think Buell should ready themselves for a mauling from the rest of the UK bike press (except for T.W.O. magazine probably, as they employ Niall McKenzie, one of the riders who helped develop the bike). We now hear that the public launch of the bike has been delayed and that we probably won't see it over here until next year. I still think it would have been prudent to have delayed the press launch as well until the bike was fully sorted. Comments like these are not going to get prospective customers into the showroom, particularly given Buells reputation in the UK as being unreliable: There s an unfinished air to the whole bike, as if Buell have launched it before it s really ready. Which is a shame, because it could and should satisfyingly fill the gap between road-biased twins like BMW s R1200S and crippling superbikes such as the Ducati 1098. But until the production bikes make it to the UK with finalised suspension and fuelling apparently in November and until we know whether reliability will continue to be an issue for Buell, it s hard to recommend the 1125R with confidence. The worrying thing about the Bike review is that some of the problems he encounters are not 1125R specific, but are the same as we have had to suffer for years with the XB range: Back at the track there are tales of more electrical problems, brake discs warping and even teeth shearing off drive belts, Buell s particular Achilles heel. | ||
| Court |
>>>>I believe they dropped it in Europe, but still available in the US. That is correct. >>>It would be accurate to say that Buell had a hand in the engine design. Yes it would. To the extent that BRP/Rotax did nothing without sign-offs from the Buell team. It was a most amazing collaborative effort. The Buell Team just returned on Wednesday from traveling to Austria for the final production sign off. I {almost} brought you pictures but alas no cameras allowed. My sense is that Buell has done a masterful job of timing the announcement of the bikes, the Laguna Seca event and then standing by to take input and make the final tweaks. Not sure this has ever been pulled off in motorcycles or cars. It is a most exciting motorcycle and I'm still laughing about the marketing folks using a slogan coined by Dave Gess in his 7/10/89 Buell Press Release. I'm excited! | ||
| Trojan |
My sense is that Buell has done a masterful job of timing the announcement of the bikes, the Laguna Seca event and then standing by to take input and make the final tweaks. Not sure this has ever been pulled off in motorcycles or cars. I 'm afraid I can't see what the 'masterful' angle is on this. Buell have released the press bike before they were ready and while they still had significant 'pre-production' faults. This means that a large proportion of prospective customers will now read negative reports before they even see the bike. People trust what they read and make buying decisions based on what road testers write in the 'serious' motorcycle press. Given that Buell have still not shaken off the 'unreliable' image in Europe this will undoubtedly mean that some people will not even bother taking the test ride or seeng the real thing when it arrives. Now that the public launch has been delayed it will reinforce the idea that the bike is not ready for production. Launching a bike in July and then not being able to buy it until the following January (at the earliest!) isn't exactly masterful timing in my book. Giving an unfinished bike to the press and expecting them to just accept the faults without making comment is frankly niaive. | ||
| Court |
>>>>I 'm afraid I can't see what the 'masterful' angle is on this. You will. >>>This means that a large proportion of prospective customers will now read negative reports before they even see the bike. No it doesn't. There were, among the 75 journalists present, damn few negative reports. >>>People trust what they read and make buying decisions based on what road testers write in the 'serious' motorcycle press. True. 1125r orders have escalated since CYCLE WORLD came out. Look for a slew of reviews in January just before folks start staring riding season in the eye. >>>>Given that Buell have still not shaken off the 'unreliable' image in Europe It's not a reliable indicator but the first two e-mails I opened this morning were from Europe wanting to know if perhaps they could advance deliveries, perhaps to correspond with EICMA coming up in Milan. If Europe is cool on the Buells, plenty of folks, it appears, failed to get the memo. >>>>Launching a bike in July and then not being able to buy it until the following January (at the earliest!) isn't exactly masterful timing in my book. I forwarded that one on to the goofs at Harley-Davidson who pulled that stunt with the XR look-alike Sportster last year. If you think a 4 month lag to production sucks, how about releasing an "artists rendition" of a bike that can't be built.  You've done nothing to diminish my excitement about the 1125r. It's going to bring some major changes to Buell and to the industry. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
So far, it seems that the 1125R was released too early. Was this done on purpose? I do not really know. Of course, Buell people say that they did it to evolve the bike faster and better. But the reviews were really very bad, worse that we expected. I do not remember reading such a negative review for a moto in a long time!!! If Buell manages to reverse the reviews of the press, after the official release of the 1125R, will be great. But there is always the first impression. And the first impression of the press for the 1125R, is not very good, any way you see it. Hardcore Bueller (like me) will buy the 1125R. But after these reviews, I will wait for 2 years, for Buell to solve the initial problems. My XB12's 04 engine was a disaster. My 07' engine is great, the 08' is even better (oil pump design). So if I had bought the 07' XB12, it would mean less problems and drama. So it is better to get the 09' or 10' 1125R, and not the 08'. I guess this is not a very good thing for the Buell factory, since it is loosing initial sales and money. Is the Buell factory considering this??? | ||
| Jaimec |
Man, is there some kind of law that says you have to be an eternal pessimist to own a Buell? A couple of negative comments in what is primarily a glowing review of the bikes, and after reading the comments here you'd get the impression Buell released junk!! Sheesh! | ||
| Davegess |
I don't know that they have screwed anything up here. We will have to wait and see. All I know is that each year sales go up, reliability goes up,and Buell makes more money. Must be doing something right. | ||
| Spatten1 |
Given that Buell have still not shaken off the 'unreliable' image in Europe Same problem in the US. That's why I think putting a belt on is too big a risk. If one of them fails on a press bike it will be horrible for Buell. If they are 110% bullet proof, then I guess it is a great move for Buell. I'd be too risk averse to take that chance given the risk/reward weightings. However, if they are bullet proof, then it should be a home run for Buell. Having the suspension not fully sorted was probably OK. Having the bike not fuel properly at a press intro is insane. Reminds me of the V-Due. Just makes the company look like they don't have their act together. All of the Japanese bikes have great open loop systems that are pretty flawless at this point. Buell has a much more complicated system, but apparantly it is tough for the factory engineers to dial in effectively. | ||
| Trojan |
Believe me I am no pessimist, but boy do I get frustrated at Buell's seeming inability to stop shooting itself in the corporate foot. First impressions are of absolute importance in any sales driven environment, and a negative first impression is very hard to overturn, regardless of improvements made in future. There are plenty of very good bikes that have failed at the first hurdle simply because the first incarnation wasn't up to scratch (Suzuki TL1000S, Bimota V-Due etc), I'm absolutely sure you will never see a launch by Ducati, KTM or BMW of an 'unfinished' or 'pre-production' bike, or one with an exhaust that looks like it was welded on 'junkyard challenge'. Buell have lots of innovative engineering ideas, but until they get the PR and styling side sorted they will unfortunately remain a relatively small player in the motorcycle world. As for reaction in Europe, I have not spoken to a single person yet who is planning on buying the new bike and who does not already own a Buell. | ||
| Court |
>>>I'm absolutely sure you will never see a launch by Ducati, KTM or BMW of an 'unfinished' or 'pre-production' bike An ususual statement that I suspect was tossed as bait given that the last KTM was announced 2 or 3 years before being released and the Hypermotard nearly a year before they were available for purchase. But hey . . it's the internet and it's fun reading. >>>they will unfortunately remain a relatively small player in the motorcycle world. I'd be willing to take a bet as to if Buell will be a bigger or smaller player 3 years from now. I look at it this way . . . John Britten entered the business as a multi-millionaire, had some great ideas and prior to his untimely death produced less motorcycles, not one of them street legal, that I could load in a box van. Buell made 3 motorcycles with 3 employees the first year I got interested. By the time I bought my first they'd just passed 100 bikes with 11 employees ( a coupld of whom were working without pay . . .there were NO funds) and last year Buell passed 100,000 (more than Indian and Excelsior Henderson combined and financed by well over a quarter BILLION dollars) with 180 employees. Buell certainly needs to do some work on the part of the equation they have no control over and little to do with and thats some of the marketing folks at Buell Distribution. What they did to the poor Buell TT should have had several folks fired. But as I read the reviews of the 1125r I'm really struggling to find them very negative and am excited to see the reviews when the production bikes come out. It's to be noted that ALL the journalists invited to the press launch we well aware they bikes were pre-production, they knew the "open issues" and the Job 1 date of 10-15 was in print . . not one person declined to attend and test an "unfinished" motorcycle. Hmmmm..message there? . . I think so. So your prediction is that the 1125r will sell poorly in the USA and not sell in Europe. Let's revisit this on 6-1-08 and compare notes. I predict it will be the best selling Buell yet. Court | ||
| Spatten1 |
Easy with the Britten comparison Court. He built a world class performance engine in the shed behind his house. Harley can't do that to this day with all their money and experience. Buell never tried, he modified available engines. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of Buells, have owned two. But Britten did more than build chassis and modify existing engines in his short lived effort. You can demean him for only building a few bikes, but he designed and built the engines too, and he was competitive racing them. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Wow! All those BMW F650 owners will be thrilled to hear that! That'll fix the last three years of glitchy fuel injection problems... ummm... four years ago. That'll be a big relief to them. ;) | ||
| Jaimec |
Careful... the F650 engines are built by the same people who provide the 1125r engine. Doesn't say much for it, does it? | ||
| Davegess |
I don't think court intends to demean John. It is just that he has heard way to many times that Brittan was a genius and by comparison Erik is not. What Erik has done is far, far harder than what Brittan did. And don't let that shed behind house thing fool you, he was not Burt Monro, he had the money to get the bits he wanted made by top notch machine shops and fabricators. The bike is certainly amazing; I love em, but what he did is nowhere near as difficult as what Erik has done and continue to do. I struggle to find a comparison; has there been anyone else since 1960 or so who has built a motorcycle COMPANY from scratch without an enormous amount of either corporate of personal wealth behind them? I think the last person to do this who is still in business may have been Mr. Honda. H-D has certainly provided assistance to Buell; a goodly amount since 2000, but prior to that the "assistance" did not amount to much in the way of finances. Certainly a small fraction of what John Bloor put into Triumph or Polaris put into Victory. He is certainly the only one who has bet EVERYTHING he had on making it work and he has made that bet several times. | ||
| Spatten1 |
I give Buell full credit for the following: 1) Engineering Genius 2) Being very patient and political enough to it work with with Harley to get the financial backing he needs. 3) The ability to compromise in the short-term to get to his long term vision. | ||
| Spatten1 |
From what I've seen, BMW has had more fuel injection issues than anyone in the MC industry. For that price..... | ||
| Fresnobuell |
But the reviews were really very bad, worse that we expected. What reviews have you been reading? The vast majority have been overwhelmingly positive--plus most of the "problems" can and will be addressed before production. Like anything in print or on the Web, one would be foolish to just read one or two articles to build an opinion on a motorcycle. | ||
| Spatten1 |
Trojan is getting more bad reviews than us. I think the American press will be more forgiving. I certainly hope so, as we should be proud to have a bike like this coming out of an American company. | ||
| Rex |
I too want the bike to be perfect and get total positive reviews. We are proud of Buell, and the bikes we own. So far, the reviews seem positive. The motor was designed to have torque and be great for the street. So far, the commments on the motor have talked about that. The handling reviews seem very positive and that the frame, etc. is very stiff. Another positive that was built into the bike. They all talk about finally getting the motor to match the handling. Another goal. That this is a platform, and more ideas will come from this. Another goal. That the pods help protect the radiators and the bikes, and that they are realitively cheap to replace. Another goal. That the bike is more comfortable than the ducati 1098. Another goal. That the muffler, frame, etc. has everything mass centralized. Another Goal. That the brake on the front is astounding and the wheel is light. Another goal. Looks like a lot of things that Buell tried to put into this bike is coming to the top, in the stories. That is good. How many magazines now are talking about the mass centralization and the mufflers of other makes being placed underneath the motor, ala Buell. That is good to start getting credit for this. That the air cooled motors are still being used and have been upgraded. I cannot wait to see a report on the new air cooled motor and the changes made to it. Should be some good press there also, once they get into the hands of the press. We will see. It is kind of like reading reports of you kid. You want them all to be totally positive and nothing negative. I think Buell will have a hard time keeping up with filling the needs. Hopefully this will be the case. So many people still do not know what a Buell is. I had a person ask me the other day...How do you pronounce it? buuuuuuu/ell? boo ell? I laughed and told them. Getting a lot of attention though....rex | ||
| Blake |
If Buell knew before hand about certain issues with the "pre-production" bikes (EFI glitch, suspension issues, poor muffler aesthetics), they should have informed the press test riders about those BEFORE they let them on the bikes! If some moto-journo cannot obtain a test bike matched to his hefty weight, and so instead chooses to ride one setup for a much lighter rider, he darn sure shouldn't be whining or complaining about the inevitably poor suspension performance. That is just plain moronic. In manufacturing, you set a deadline and work to it. Sometimes that involves customer testing/review. If one of your subcontractors fails to meet the required delivery date, like say for suspension components, do you at the last minute cancel the whole test/review? I think not. You go with what you have and inform the customer/reviewer accordingly. Buell should have informed the test/review riders of all known issues with the bikes before they let them sit on the bikes. As a result of the pre-production exposure and reviews, I see two opposing views of the 1125R. On the negative side, due to the unfinished issues that were impossible to ignore, some folks will be skeptical concerning the performance/value of new bike. On the positive side, Buell obtained a LOT of objective feedback and now has the opportunity to respond to that feedback and come out the hero. I'm sure that Buell will respond admirably, their record of doing so is unparalleled in the industry. Ya gotta wonder about the motives of a reporter who conjures up imaginary issues with the Buell ZTL-2 single disk front brake system despite its flawless performance during his own track and street testing sessions. Something stinks there, BIGTIME! |
