| Author | Message | ||
     Jkhawaii |
the v-rod engine weights 70lbs more?? dam that would not have worked at all! good job on the new engine. I am supprised HD alowed a non HD engine to be built | ||
| Rex |
we saw a vrod run in the 9's at the drag strip during homecoming.....rex | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
im not suprised at all this is not the first time H-D has had involement with rotax. (granted this is buell not H-D this time) the army dirtbikes H-D used to make was rotax powered and that might not be the only one but i do remeber that one being rotax powered. | ||
| Jeffnights |
I really dont see why you guys are knocking the V-Rod, its a engine put in a power cruiser and does a damn fine job in its role. I love my Street Rod, and I held off on getting a Buell to replace my V-strom because you all kept leaving hints about something big was coming, the 1125R is tits. I'll be getting one. But dont slam the V-rod plant, it doesnt make you look cool dudes. | ||
| Rainman |
I liked the V-Rods that I've ridden. I like the one in the picture ridden by the plumber. She must be a plumber because she wears her jeans like the guy who was working on my pipes. I'd much rather she had been working on my pipes. | ||
| Vanvideo |
I love V-Rods. I need a Night Rod Special, oh so badly. (Message edited by vanvideo on July 13, 2007) | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Jeffnights, It isn't that the V-Rod engine is bad. It's that there were SOOOO many here who were willing to sell their soul in order to get it in a Buell. It's like lusting after a Detroit Diesel for your Ferrari. It isn't that the diesel engine is bad. It's that no one in their right minds would voluntarily shoe horn it into their F430. | ||
| Diablobrian |
That and the bad taste left by some at H-D snaking the motor project out from under the elves.... | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I think the jokes on them!  | ||
| Aj06bolt12r |
Are you kidding me, Id love to have a detroit diesel in a ferrari, well maybe not a ferrari cuz the motor is too heavy for the car, but it would be awesome to put one in the bed of a dually and rig up some sort of hydrostatic transmission. Then you could just run the engine at peak torque, around 2000ftlbs and push the lever. Now that would be a ride my man, if you could get it to hook up anyway. | ||
| Roehrcycleguy |
I think you guy's are selling the Revo engine a little short. I do agree that it is heavy, but there are area's where weight can be saved. Our new engine, still under development is now under 180lbs. One of the main reasons for the weight, is that this engine is immensely strong in all the right places ie; crankshaft,gearbox, clutch,primary gears etc. With our revised bore and stroke of 107.95mm X 65mm as well new heads,cams with Ti valves and larger throttle bodies, we are now seeing 160 RWHP with reliable rev limits above 11500 RPM. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Mr. Roehrich, Thanks for stopping in and adding to the discussion. I agree that the Revo engine is a great engine. My concern is the cost and capability to lighten it compared to building an engine from the ground up. How does the 180lbs compare to the base model? How does it compare to with the Helicon engine or the 1098 power plant? 160rwhp is very impressive. | ||
| Patrickh |
I don't think that anyone was implying that the v-rod was a "bad" motor. It is very good at what it is supposed to do. In fact, if I remember correctly, it absolutely shreds a Yamaha Warrior in a straight line. It just has no business in a sport bike | ||
| Trojan |
It just has no business in a sport bike And the air cooled Sportster derived motor has? I'm sure the Revo motor will work very well in the Roehr and am glad that somebody is going to use the engine in a performance bike instead of the tart's handbag that is the V-Rod. What a waste of a stonking motor that is. I see that the only decent V-Rod model, the Street Rod, is being discontinued from 2008, probably because it was never popular. That says a great deal about Harley riders to me, and the engine is wasted on them ;) | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Agreed, Trojan. That was part of my argument both with the Helicon naysayers and those who were wishing the V-Rod engine was in their Buell. Given a completely clean slate, the Sportster engine would NEVER be chosen. The V-Rod is a great engine, but my concern is the cost to shed pounds not only from the engine but from the rest of the bike in order to use the engine. It isn't that it can't be done. The Roehr bike is a prime example of what can be done. My concern is the price of the end product. There is not doubt that the Roehr bike is a great bike, but the $39,995 price is higher than bikes weighing less and making more horsepower. | ||
| Chessm |
anyone with a dyno chart for a stock vrod? it would be nice to compare with the crayola dynochart for the 1125r. we'll just compensate for the fact that its just a marketing chart and not a real one. | ||
| M1combat |
"Our new engine, still under development is now under 180lbs." Yeah... Not a sportbike engine. No offense... It's just that the thing needs to turn too... Well if you want to sell one to me anyhow. | ||
| Strato9r |
Too bad about the Street Rod, I was lucky enough to ride one, and loved it; the ergos were really sweet, and my tall girlfriend was very comfortable on it as well. I feel horribly uncomfortable on any machine with forward controls, and could never figure out why they didnt offer the mid-mount controls on a V-Rod right off the bat (probably for the same reason that H-D doesnt sell that XR styled Sporty in North America). | ||
| Ratbuell |
I've ridden the VRSCD, which is a normal VRSC frame with mid controls. The reason they didn't offer it right away is the peg to seat distance can be measured with a micrometer. Granted, I have a 34" inseam...but DAMN, that thing is short. The VRSCR Street Rod had a taller frame and longer seat-to-peg distance, and I loved it. Unfortunately it got killed because it wasn't the type of ride most HD folks are looking for. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Unfortunately it got killed because it wasn't the type of ride most HD folks are looking for. What one you could control? | ||
| Ma1 |
I've seen this a number of times now, that HD somehow "Took" the V-Rod engine from Buell. As the V-rod was derived from the VR-1000, which began development back in the late 80s, and was seconded to Porsche for adaption to mass production in the Mid 90s, I don't see how anyone could say this? (The VR-1000 is, in fact, the last design to be developed in the old Juneau Ave plant) The V-rod Motor has been offered for open sale for a number of years now. Buell did in fact make up several mules using the Motor, but HD indicated it was willing to help aquire/garuntee the funds needed to develop a new plant to Buells own specs, so they went that way. It was also a good way to get a saleable product out, without the possible drag an HD nameplate on the engine might have. Of course, HD does not have any capacity or room for a new engine line right now, hence the new engine plant being built in the Milwaukee suburbs right now. Should the 1125 prove successful, with good sales volume, then I would expect the next generation engine to be taken in house at the new facility. BTW, A few years back I was in Germany visiting relatives, and got a chance to tour one of Porsches facilities. I asked an engineer about the V-Rod. Word in the company was of a good design, but massively overbuilt even by their standard, though that made it relativly easy to adapt for mass production. HD wanted it kept that way, envisioning a lot of bore and stroke additions over the years, as well as customer hot rodding. | ||
| Davegess |
The V-rod shares NOTHING except the basic v angle with the VR. The only connection between the two is the marketing hoopla that tried to capitalize on the failed racing machine by say the Vrod was born from that(I don't know what this means but what sort of marketing campaign would claim that the new high performance engine is based a race engine that NEVER won a race? An engine that was clearly less powerful than the competition. Especially since the V-rod is quite a nice engine. For a power cruiser it makes great power, is bullet proof and looks great. I am not sure I get the reasoning behind this). Buell was involved early on in the conception of the V-rod but it was quickly overwhelmed by the power cruiser idea an became unsuitable for a Buell. | ||
| Ma1 |
It is a fact that a VR-1000 was shipped to Porsche for adaptation. It is a fact that the Archetecture of the 2 engines is virtualy identical. It is a fact that the included Valve angle is the same. It is a fact that the V-Rod was well under development before HD bought Buell. The VR-1000 was more development Mule than racer, brought on line by a small in house shop with limited funds (HRC employs more people than HDI in its entirety even now) It was indeed down on power, always seeming one year behind the opposition, but considering the differences in funding and manpower, its really surprising it did as well as it did, and it provided a wealth of information for HDI. In fact, when you read the obits of the VR-1000, one wishs that Buell had been brought on board that last year or two, he might have gotten better results than the acerbic Nascar based Schiebe, or the clueless marketer Baker. But however you accept the V-Rods ancestery, Buell had nothing to do with its early development, and its course was long set by the time BMC was brought on board. (Message edited by ma1 on July 30, 2007) | ||
| Davegess |
It is a fact that the V-Rod was well under development before HD bought Buell. Not true, Buell was part of H-D in 1993 and the V-rod project started after this. I recall it being around 1995 when I first saw drawings. VR project predates this of course BUT the VR did not lead to the V-rod. It was a separate project that failed to achieve it's goals. Porsche has had input on several H-D enignes including the VR. I cannot quote chapter and verse, I do not wish to compromise friends, BUT I will stake my reputation as the unofficial Buell historian that the the V-rod in not related to the VR. That the V-rod was conceived by Buell. And that the project was moved toward the power cruiser configuration AFTER the initial design to meet the needs of H-D. It was offered to Beull and they turned it down as unsuitable and proceeded to hot rod the sportster motor as well as push for a new motor. | ||
| Diablobrian |
Ma1, I believe that you have fallen victim of the systematic dissemination of dis-information. It is a Fact that before H-D bought controlling interest in Buell that BMC was acting as de-facto R&D for H-D. It is a fact that Erik has maintained close relations with H-D since his days working in-house. It is also a fact that what became the V-Rod motor started as a Buell motor project. It was given backhanded mention in the V-rod "documentary" as having started in a small garage in Wisconsin. Wanna guess who's garage it was? H-D decided at some point to also base a power cruiser around the motor, then the styling dept wanted a physically larger motor for greater visual impact etc etc and the motor grew too large for the package that Buell had planned and rather than compromise, the rug got yanked out from under Erik and the Elves. I understand Erik is still fairly bitter over the whole thing. One thing to remember about history, especially corporate history, it is written by the team that "won" that particular round. In this case there has been some serious revisionist history at work, along with a MAJOR propaganda campaign. Think about it this way, if H-D and Buell worked out a deal in regards to the current motor couldn't HDI have come up with the rescources to build a plant during the multi-year development cycle that every new engine goes through instead of having it built over-seas? After all the capacity needed to keep up with BMC's needs is a drop in the bucket compared to the H-D juggernaut. It's not like they would have to build another Juneau Ave size complex to take care of lil' ol' Buell's needs... even considering growth to 25k motors a year. If I have any part of this wrong would DaveGess, Court, or one of the Annonys please show me the error of my ways? I'm not afraid to say I was wrong, but in this case I've heard the same thing from several separate sources. edit: It looks like DaveGess chimed in while I was composing this magnum opus  (Message edited by diablobrian on July 30, 2007) | ||
| Davegess |
Diablo, you are not very far off the mark. The real gory details will likely have to wait for the book that comes out AFTER everyone is retired and out of harms way. | ||
| Anonymous |
Ma1, actually you have been misled. Buell was intimately involved in the VR1000, long before Rausch, let alone Schiebe. The parts exist to prove it, as well as documentation. In fact, Erik was involved from February of 1987, and even named the VR1000, as well as providing fundamental input to the engine geometry and the chassis design. Long story that will be told someday. And not only was Buell involved in the VR1000, the V-Rod Revolution engine project was initiated in 1994 as a Buell engine. However, Buell was still small, and H-D, who was running the project, decided there would be more sales if they converted the motor into a big cruiser motor, which would no longer work for Buell. Plenty of parts, prototype vehicles and documentation exist to prove this as well. All good stuff for future reading, and in the long run everybody wins. H-D has the V-Rod and Buell has the water-cooled liter Superbike it has wanted since 1987. Except better than could have been imagined. | ||
| Jlnance |
Given a completely clean slate, the Sportster engine would NEVER be chosen. But the slate is never completely clean. | ||
| M2nc |
I had my ear to the rail and over heard a story. It stated the Buell originally had a more radical design for the VR1000 but HD opted for a design a little more conventional. Those original VR1000 designs by Buell ended up as the XB some years later. I do not know if it is true, but it was a good story none the less. You know I am a firm believer of timing. The Buell Superbike was not the right time until now. I can not wait to ride what we have all been waiting for, including Buell. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
But the slate is never completely clean. True. All require some sort of material, and will be internal combustion engines. Who designs the engine provides the flavor like where the wine is made. I'd say the Helicon is about as clean a slate as you might get. Granted Rotax provided some "flavor". |
