| Author | Message | ||
     86129squids |
News, spied from Q-board- H-D has shut down the dirtbike project!! Let the gossip begin....  RIP MX'ers!!! | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
ya beat me by 1 min. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/406 2/308926.html?1190760915 | ||
| Leeroy_jenkins |
RIP  | ||
| Rick_a |
The whole dealer show thing may have just been a ploy to gauge enthusiasm for the project. I'm sure all the negative internet chatter didn't help, either. If they truly meant to go forward with the project and things didn't pan out, well...that must be a real embarrassment. Something I remembered from an old interview: Erik Buell Interview August 3rd, 2007 by Paul Crowe - "The Kneeslider" Kneeslider: What about the dirt bike project? Is there anything you can say about that? Erik Buell: It’s definitely a project underway and when we talked about it last January we said we would have a bike for the market within 2 years and that is still the plan but it’s not scheduled. Now what exactly did that mean? | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Just Miffed. Simply speechless. And here I was pushing our dealership into putting a hoopdee track nextdoor for supervised demos of said new bike. The line I kept getting was We will see.  daggommit (of course they all thought I was crazy. Thanks guys) | ||
| Cyclonemduece |
 RIP | ||
| Fmaxwell |
At first I was disappointed by this, but then I really started to think differently. There was a lot going against Buell here: 1. The 450MX is a race bike in a prestigious class. Buell would have been going up against the best engineers, and big budgets, at Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, Kawasaki, and KTM. It's unlikely that a Buell would have risen above the level of interesting curiosity. 2. To stay competitive requires re-engineering the bike every couple of years. That is expensive. 3. Buell can't afford to hire a James Stewart to race for them and if you're not on the podium, you're not selling MX bikes. 4. If you think that Harley dealers have trouble connecting with existing Buell riders, imagine them trying to bond with 18 year old motocross racers: "Would you like some leather fringe for your handgrips? And would you be interested in some highway pegs?" 5. Buell's lineup of street bikes needs continuing development and upgrades to stay relevant and competitive. I think that there are many people who would like to see things like an 1125r engined Lightning, an upgraded Blast, redesigned air-cooled engines, etc. Could Buell really support a full-on 450MX development along with those upgrades? Buell would be much better served with a dirt-oriented dual sport. That market is much less competitive. Designs tend to stay around a lot longer. You don't need hollow titanium bolts to be weight-competitive. And the engine could be the basis for a new, lighter and more nimble Blast. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
hell the KLR 650 was virtually unchanged for 15 years and has continued as a model for the last 25 or so. Make it a light weight dual sport option, put some damn lights on it, and sell it, keep it around as a low buck Uly alternative (that is what I wanted any way. Never was going to catch air on an MX ) | ||
| Hughlysses |
I found this very interesting press release from Dave Osterman online at a couple of sites yesterday: "Opportunity Lost", Dave O's. Thank you to Buell Having to start the coming week after the MXON victory was definitely a high note & a plus. Went into work (Buell) on Monday feeling great. No worries. In fact one of the engine suppliers techs was flying into to Milwaukee to test with us for the week. Had the dyno & track ready for us as we'd roll through it. I couldn't wait. You see, I was hired, brought into help the Buell Motorcycle Co. attempt to build an "American Offroad Bike". I was brought in by the company namesake, Erik Buell himself. In fact when he called me up after leaving YOT, I didn't believe it was really him. I thought it was a buddy playing a joke on me. It wasn't. It was real & I took it very serious. Many if any ever get this chance, the chance to make history. Failure wasn't an option for me. I even coined the phrase for the many engineers there I interacted with as "the end user". We're all end users really. Even RC, James, & Mitch Payton. All end users, & that's fine. I've been on some of the best teams in the history of American motocross, but even at the factory level, your still largely just an "end user", but with better connections so to speak to get what & where you want. So to the Harley/Buell organization I say thank you for the huge opportunity you instilled in me. Though many times I felt like giving up, the team effort & many of my team kept me going strong. During this project, still living in So. Calif. & commuting to Wisconsin was tough. Since January I've been home less than I've been back there at Buell. At times even my dogs thought I was a stranger at first. So thanks to my family, who's always behind me. Thanks to my team, the cast & crew I worked with daily. Through the good & bad, I'll miss you guys. So hence "opportunity lost". We would have made history. Now I'm home, time to move on. Once again, to all the Buell people, thanks. The pleasure was mine & maybe we'll cross paths again. Also, a huge thank you to Live Nation & to the NPG for all your help in helping me to show my guys, my team, SX & MX at its best as we ent to many races. To all my buds on the many teams out there that took the time to talk to my guys, & the several brands I tried to bring into the fold of our project, I appreciate all your time & help. So you see my, "Opportunity lost". See you at the races. To reach me please feel free to contact me at: ozzydeo@yahoo.com or (661) 510-8563 Sincerely, Dave Osterman | ||
| Hughlysses |
Here's a short interview with Dave Osterman done the DAY before the program was cancelled: THE DAY LATER….BUELL OFF-ROAD BIKE DIES On Monday we were talking to former factory Yamaha tuner and Yamaha of Troy team manager Dave Osterman about the Buell off-road bike. Dave had been hired by Buell as a project manager for the off-road effort and he had just returned from the MX des Nations at Budd’s Creek where he had taken a frame engineer to get a first hand look at the sport. “I’ve been dragging them to the races all year,” said Dave. It’s not good enough to just read about racing in the mags or watch DVDs. If we’re going to make this work we need to be able to see it, touch it, and smell it. WE don’t have the resources that Honda does, but the engineers are good and when they get out to the races you hear them asking a lot of questions which is important. “As far as the bike’s development, it’s a process. There are a lot of delays and it’s sometimes it’s not just over the weekend type delays, but weeks. We have the test mules out there and we’re going through the motions. The 1125R was a good indication for us that we can do the dirt bike, it gave us a lot of confidence. Over the last year I saw clay models of the 1125R and how it got to where it is. Now I have a bunch of clay on my Etnies from the off-road bike. And then this announcement came the following day…. "Buell Motorcycle Company has announced it is shelving its off-road motorcycle development plans for the foreseeable future. Earlier this year, Buell announced to dealers that the Company intended to enter the closed-course, competition use off-road motorcycle market. Buell has made the business decision to focus resources on its street motorcycle business, including continued development of the XB line and the launch of the all new 1125R superbike platform,” said Buell President and Chief Operating Officer Jon Flickinger. “Buell customers and dealers have expressed incredible excitement for the new 1125R superbike and our entry into the mainstream sportbike market.” Buell Motorcycle Company, a subsidiary of Harley-Davidson, produces sport motorcycles, motorcycle parts, accessories and apparel. To learn more about Buell motorcycles, visit your local Buell dealer today and experience the pure streetfighter attitude, style and performance only found on board a Buell. For the Buell dealer nearest you, Click Here." (taken from http://www.motocrossactionmag.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?s id=&nm=&type=news&mod=News&mid=9A02E3B96F2A415ABC7 2CB5F516B4C10&tier=3&nid=DA14863C9C364D7693CBD0A20 C062489) | ||
| Fmaxwell |
My apologies to Dave Osterman and anyone else who has been hurt by Buell's cancellation of the project. It's all too easy to look at it from the cold-hearted business perspective of my earlier posting and to miss the human side of the equation. I sincerely hope that Buell someday has the financial and corporate support to pursue an off-road bike. I know that I'll be interested, especially if it's aimed at the recreational rider rather than the racer. I own a Suzuki DRZ400S as well as a Buell XB12Ss, so I'm a prime candidate to buy a Buell off-road machine. I really do think that a serious dual-sport in the 450-650cc range would be a great direction to pursue. Go for the attributes that make a Buell so appealing: Light weight, low cg and centralized mass, rigid chassis, top-quality suspension, and a very wide powerband. And now do something that no one else seems smart enough to do: Provide a transmission that can handle single-track, highly technical off-road trails and then let you cruise home at 70mph without the engine screaming for mercy. I've always thought that the dual-range transmissions that Suzuki had in some 70s dual sports (or "enduros" as they were known back then) were, in principle, a great idea. I would not even be opposed to one that required shutting off the engine or hopping off the bike to switch. I don't want another "adventure sport". I'm not looking for 1980's technology (like the Honda XR-650L or the Kawasaki KLR-650). I don't want a race-bike with lights (like the KTMs) that requires race-bike-like maintenance. I don't want a gutless 250cc playbike or a 300+ pound ground-pounder. I'm not going to be racing it against James Stewart or Ricky Carmichael, so I'm happy to trade some horsepower for a wider torque curve and less demanding maintenance schedule. | ||
| Dizzle |
As a street and dirt rider, I was at first excited about the bike but now I am glad that Buell decided to stay focused on achieving and perfecting their first goal(to build a COMPETITIVE american sportbike)and they are so close with the 1125r. Hopefully they might resume the dirt project before I am too old to get down in the dirt! | ||
| Reepicheep |
Buell did not decide to stop the dirt program... somebody else did, even if Buell is being too polite to state as much. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Reepi, In the article linked in the Quickboard: http://www.motorcyclists-online.com/motorcycle-tes ts-reviews/newsmo.php?art=742&utm_source=Newslette r&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=thesmaz&&xuu=thesm az&xpu=c3Rpc2F0TXVw John Flickinger implies the main reason the program was canceled is because of pending rule changes in the 450 cc competition classes. I'm sure there was more to it than that, but that certainly seems like a good reason for not forging ahead with a competition bike given Buell's history. Any inside details you can share with us? | ||
| Rick_a |
The speculation is that there's a push to reducing supercross machines to 350cc. Since that's at present only a suggestion I don't see that being a reason at canking the whole project. The 450's will continue be around for some time to come, me thinks, even if they are phased out of supercross. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Jon Flickinger is doing a great job in a very delicate role, and I respect what he has been able to achieve. I deal in these kind of intra-division executive decisions and communications (internal and external) daily as a part of my job. After a few years of it, you can read between the lines with a very high degree of accuracy. You learn to see the "inside voice" closed captions while the "outside voice" reads the press release... (Message edited by reepicheep on October 09, 2007, to fix spelling) (Message edited by reepicheep on October 10, 2007) | ||
| Buell920 |
are you saying there are to many f*&*%%# dealer owners that complained and said ( our sales team cant sell that ). I know of about 5 local Buell dealer owners that pooped a brick when there saw the memo. 3 of them had started to think how much $ it was going to cost just to stock the minimum stuff.  if the owners would stop beating the pegasus and let it get up and run they may be impressed at how well it can do. | ||
| Court |
Jon | ||
| Hughlysses |
My apologies to Mr. Flickinger. Reepi, I agree with your observations. It certainly seems like Dave Osterman would have been heavily involved in any decision to end the program based on impending rules changes, and he obviously didn't have a clue until the day it happened. It's nice to read his very positive comments about his experience at Buell. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
So what if they were going to change the Rules of Racing. Hasnt Harley always carved their own class and thrown their corporate weight around to get what they want??!? take note of the XR dirt oval track series, and AHRD where only harleys race against other harleys (with a couple Buell exceptions) ? Wasnt looking to MX with the damn thing, just something that was lighter, more aggressive and purpose built than my CityX... still eyeing the KTM | ||
| Pmpski_1 |
Hell I went and bought an old XR250 so that it would be time to "upgrade" when the Buell dirtbike came out. Oh well, I'm really starting to enjoy the XR for what it is. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
According to Fuell, this bike was dumped because the 1125 is going to be so popular and Buell wants to concentrate on that. Nothing was said about Harley dumping the project. | ||
| Court |
Yeah . . . FUELL (owned, written, edited, published and distributed by Harley-Davidson) is an objective source of accurate inside information on strategic decisions at Buell.  | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
Duh. I thought it was funny that they're using the 1125's popularity as an excuse not to make the dirt bike. | ||
| Court |
>>>>I thought it was funny that they're using the 1125's popularity as an excuse not to make the dirt bike. It was not a smart move on someones part and erode the credibility of the media folks. It's silly and someone at HD needs to be brought into conformance with Buell Corporate Values. . . that would have NEVER left Buell worded like that. I think one of the junior PR/media apprentices needs to read Mr. Cutlip's book. | ||
| Rick_a |
The alloy engined XR's long standing dominance is due to simply having the best combination of power and grip that few manufacturers have been able to match consistently. The AHDRA is a separate sanctioning body sponsored by Screaming Eagle. Buell has sponsored a few classes, that doesn't mean they "own" them and it certainly doesn't help them win (though the XBRR has been given a lot of slack, to nobody's detriment). Fact is H-D did not see the number$, and that's just how it is. (Message edited by Rick_a on November 26, 2007) | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Dirtin and Muddin on the XB, pity there wasnt a lighter, leaner, meaner Bueller for more aggressive single track.  | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Or since I cant get one from E Troy, I will have to shop the other side of the House. The new HD MT350 Got a bid out on one now.  | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Bring it back.... I want to BELIEVE. | ||
| Buelleaver |
Hate to say it, but Ill bet if Harley is going to build a dirt bike theyll tap their new cagiva association before Buell. Cagiva use to build some pretty neat dirt bikes years ago, so they have some name recognition in moto cross, And presumably they might still have some expertise in the area. |
