| Author | Message | ||
     Zhen13 |
Got a message on Facebook that EBR will be in both 1400 at the Chicago International Motorcycle. February 12-14. I thought that was promising news. | ||
| Needforspeed |
I have to say unless someone has hacked the show's site it looks like EBR will be there. http://www.motorcycleshows.com/sites/motorcyclesho ws.com/files/uploaded/CHI%202_9.pdf EBR is on the list. | ||
| Ebrfan |
Being present at these types of bike shows are the best advertising that LAP could do. I'd pay for booths at every show in the world if I were on that LAP marketing team. It is the best place for them, and us owners. All that LAP needs to do is partner up with some other bike manufacturer who already has a global dealer network for the bikes to sell on their floors for a percent of the total profit and the battle is over, EBR will slowly make a comeback and easily turn profitable for the $1.6 million that it was boughten for. Parts could be drop shipped from the Wisconsin factory instead of taking up valuable real estate and be anywhere in most of the world in days. There is little overhead this way and everyone wins. | ||
| Midknyte |
Is it possible for it to buy itself out once it is up & running? | ||
| Court |
>>>Being present at these types of bike shows are the best advertising that LAP could do. I'm confused. Can you explain your thinking? | ||
| Buelliedan |
The chicago show was already pre-paid for last year so LAP decided since it was so close anyways they might as well take advantage of some free advertising. | ||
| Buelliedan |
"EBR will slowly make a comeback and easily turn profitable for the $1.6 million that it was boughten for." If only it was that easy! | ||
| Ebrfan |
My thinking being that getting the EBR's out in the public eye at these events and showing that it is a viable company bring buyers, for both bikes and or the company as a whole. If a manufacturer sees EBR as a viable company and partners with LAP/EBR to sell them on their floors for a piece of the company profits this is the cheapest, and probably easiest, way for the company to regain a foothold in the superbike market. | ||
| Court |
The major manufacturers .... Those folks that know and understand the business intimately have looked. They were ...... I think we were told the number was 34 firms expressing interest ..... Invited too look, see, engage in due diligence and bid. No one showed on any of the 3 occasions they had to do so. Ditto the "deep pocket" and "wealthy enthusiasts". Among their number ..... One showed ..... A lighting fixture manufacturer. The $1.6M was fire sale chump change. It bought some parts and pieces..... Some tools and fixtures. What would you estimate the total value of the EBR intellectual property to be? It's obviously a small fraction of $1.6M. I don't know what it is but I'm uncertain how many of them would be scuffling over 3 year old designs. I could be light years wrong and EBR could have had the Millenium Falcon ready to go into Mas production. But if they did ..... The folks ....all of them.....who came and did the scratch and smell test walked away and didn't even tended a minimum bid. IMS shows are expensive ....insanely expensive. It's the reason EBR has never been. Given the normal profit margin on an EBR you'd have to sell over 500 bikes to cover the cost of a single IMS show. Riddle me how many bikes EBR sold in the companies history. Next challenge ..... The first thing any investor is going to need to do is ....you got it.....INVEST .... And I a BIG way with their return far out o the horizon and their entire investment predicated on the physical presence of a nearly 70 year old engineer. Take Erik Buell out of this scenario ......for any reason from illness to just pissed off and your money is down the drain. I'm wishing them them best ..... Hoping against hope. But, I am a businessman. Just PERSONAL OPINION based on the facts I have available. I could be.... And frankly hope I am......entirely wrong. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Court- You seem to be going back and forth on the current state of EBR between "this is awesome!" and "it'll be a miracle if they survive this". There does seem to be lot of ambiguity in the LAP press releases and related articles. Are they just "planning" to restart production next month, which means they'll restart production if Daddy Warbucks shows up, or is LAP actually funding at least a temporary resumption of production so they can get ~350 new motorcycles out the door for sale? I guess we'll know for sure in about a month. | ||
| Court |
It's not "back and forth" at all . . . . . There are many unanswered questions and, in all candor, no one has any obligation to provide us with answers. We are simply an audience of enthusiasts hoping and cheering. My questions resolved around the state of the legal entity. I have a cursory familiarity with federal laws but not the specific nuances of the Wisconsin Receivership. In most cases, the ASSETS are sold . . . not the COMPANY and any successor entity is a NEW COMPANY. The old company does not "survive" the bankruptcy process. That's the very point of receivership, to liquidate the assets and for the receiver to exercise a fiduciary duty to the benefit of the creditors. The process has, as it's objective, making the creditors as whole as possible, not to meet the needs or wants of a small group of enthusiasts. The Court has very defined options and very little discretion. They can't, for example, select an option that provides the creditors less in favor of a "pie in the sky" . . "someday we'll create jobs". Along these same lines . . . . I am not sure they can sell the leftover inventory. Perhaps they can but it's going to require some wrangling with the NHTSA (I posted the actual rules that govern manufacturers in a prior post) to "step into the shoes" of EBR. Even if they do, I confess to wondering if it's worth it. How much, for example, would you pay for a 2 or 3 year old bike that's been sitting? They'll have to be certified and the VIN approved. Again . . . this may be as easy as a stroke of a pen but, if so, it'll be the exception not the rule. These things, witness the lack of a 1995 S2 in California waiting for paperwork and the first year of EBRs not being sold in CA while the paperwork plodded along. Doing a new model, similarly takes millions of dollars and 12-18 months under the best of circumstances. So what looks like back and forth may be a to and fro between what I'd like to see and what I view as reality based on my years in the business and 27 years of being involved in working through these sorts of things. Money is tougher to get these days than ever. Erik will tell you that it's almost impossible for American entrepreneurs to get funding, it's a real shame. During the start of EBR we talked to countless folks, Erik came her to NYC to meet with equity investment firms. It's akin to climbing a greased mirror. Anyway . . . . I'm hopeful. Erik has a long and proven track record of landing on his feet. But time and tide are much different now than they were 20 years ago. At my age, I'm not in the market for a 200hp sportbike but there is nothing I'd love more than for the world to see some of Erik's genius displayed on 2 wheels. We'll see . . . we're within about 4 weeks of when we are told we'll see a 2016 model for sale. That's good news. | ||
| Reepicheep |
In 15+ years of being a Buell fan, I have arrived at two fundamental truths. I think these are what everyone is trying to balance right now. 1) Anything Erik Buell says will be heavily slanted by enthusiasm, optimism, hope, and energy. 2) If, knowing #1 above, you assumed that because of this, it's just talk and nothing will come of it, you would have been spectacularly wrong spectacularly often. So here we sit, looking around and saying the math just doesn't work, and falling into category 1 above. And then we think about category 2 above... And don't take this as any kind of negative judgment or criticism of Erik Buell. Nobody is successful in business without that particular kind of insanity. That is the fuel that has powered the world out of the stone age. It doesn't guarantee success, but without it, you are pretty much guaranteed failure, and you should, like me, just go work for somebody else and just keep banging the rocks together... | ||
| Hughlysses |
Bill, that's an excellent summary. Sometimes "common sense" and "Erik Buell" don't belong in the same sentence, and I mean that in the most positive way possible. Common sense would suggest EBR is doomed. Then again there's Erik Buell. Back on topic, a guy on the BuellXB forum says he's going to the Chicago IMS, he's going to visit the EBR booth, he's soliciting questions to ask them, and he's going to shoot video. Maybe something interesting will come out of that. | ||
| Mrlogix |
Hughlysses- just a reminder that "a guy on the BuellXB forum says he's going to the Chicago IMS, he's going to visit the EBR booth, he's soliciting questions to ask them, and he's going to shoot video. Maybe something interesting will come out of that we are talking about Chicago, scooter boy extraordinaire. (Message edited by mrlogix on February 11, 2016) | ||
| Airbozo |
You want investor money? Come to the Silicon Valley and "mention" a proposed electric model. Funds will flow... Certain taxes on a new local business will probably be waived as well. | ||
| Buelliedan |
I read that Tesla lost 3.5 BILLION dollars last year! So many folks on here saying that the new EBR should copy Teslas business model. I don't know too many start-up companies that could lose that much money and stay in business unless they have an Elon Musk backing them. | ||
| Sparky |
"My thinking being that getting the EBR's out in the public eye at these events and showing that it is a viable company bring buyers..." Exactly. I, for one, went to the Long Beach IMS in 2014 and found a big EBR banner at one booth which was a local multi-brand dealership selling EBRs. On a whim a couple months later I decided to check them out and, lo and behold after a test drive, they made me an offer on an SX I couldn't refuse especially considering a substantial military discount for being a veteran. It's good that the Sales Mgr himself was a vet. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Just posted to EBR's Facebook page:
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| Airbozo |
"I read that Tesla lost 3.5 BILLION dollars last year! " Stock market loses between Tesla and Solar City. Not sure that business model would work for everyone, but it isn't a bad model. Selling direct to the consumer is good for the consumer (lower prices) and for the seller _if_ it is done right. Other companies can sell goods direct to the consumer, why not auto/motorcycle manufacturers? Never truly understood why states fight it, besides the car dealer lobby. | ||
| Lastcyclone |
Yep he's there. | ||
| Hughlysses |
They've posted a few pics to Facebook. According to what people in EBR booth told "Chicago" from the Buell XB forum, bike production will definitely resume next month. | ||
| Court |
That's great news!! Any mention of which dealers have signed on with the new company? Curious to see if the huge EBR dealer near me will pick the new bikes up. | ||
| Hughlysses |
^ he says he'll post video later with more details. | ||
| Crusty |
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| Lastcyclone |
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| Johndb |
It's all true! Seeing Erik again was great. Hopefully we will see bikes soon.  | ||
| Hootowl |
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| Reepicheep |
Erik lost a lot of unsprung mass! | ||
| Sprintst |
Does "bike production" simply equal "we are going to use up the stuff that's in the pipeline so we can sell it"?? | ||
| Hootowl |
Maybe. But that means they've jumped through all the legal hoops to do so. That's encouraging. |
