| Author | Message | ||
     Reepicheep |
I guess that as owners who have an outstanding warranty, owners are actually a creditor also, and have rights. How many bikes were sold, how many are in warranty, and what is the value of that warranty? As a block, how does that compare with other outstanding creditors? (Probably not many, and low. Too bad, or the current bike owners could have been the largest creditor, which would support the case for selling for less as an ongoing interest, as that is the best way to make that creditor "whole") | ||
| Drawkward |
I don't have an EBR and didn't send a letter. But I do own two Buells and have nowhere to buy parts from in the event that I need them. That's a concern for many Buell owners. Not just EBR owners. | ||
| Buelliedan |
"But I do own two Buells and have nowhere to buy parts from in the event that I need them" EBR did not sell Buell parts except for a few P&A accessories so I am not sure what that has to do with anything? | ||
| Reepicheep |
That beef is with Harley Davidson. I won't run around whining about it, but I sure as hell won't forget it either. | ||
| 1313 |
Just curious... What parts for your Buells can you not get from Harley? I know there are likely some small number of parts that may no longer be available, but recent reports suggest most are still available... 1313 | ||
| D_adams |
Less than 1000. All of them should have had a warranty until at least Feb of 2016, assuming the very first ones delivered were still covered. I got mine the first week of March in 2014 and got all of 13 months of warranty coverage. Most stuff got fixed, but there's one thing that none of us ever got repaired (as far as I know anyway) and that was the rubbing rear shock spring. I figured the warranty was worth at least the value of the bike that I paid for it ($19k) since if it totally self destructed, it would have been replaced. Without that warranty, I wouldn't have bought one. Yes, it's an awesome bike, but had I known that EBR would close as soon as it did, I'd have passed for sure and bought something else. What that bike would have been, I don't know. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Doing some back of the napkin calculating... Assume the bikes were bought for $15k, and now have a resale value of $5k. But normal depreciation of a new bike would arguably be $5k. So call it $5k per owner. At the low end, say there were 100 bikes sold, that's $500,000. At the high end, 1000 bikes sold, that would have been $5 million. Which would, as a class, could arguably have made "EBR motorcycle owners" the largest single creditor. And as that creditor, they are best served by EBR being continued as an ongoing business as opposed to a liquidation. But it probably doesn't matter, as enough bikes weren't bought at that high margin price. (Just thinking out loud...) | ||
| Buelliedan |
You guys with EBRs do understand that the new owner no mater who it is will have ZERO obligation to honor any warranties don't you? Even if EBR does come back you are not going to get any warranty coverage on bikes bought before 2015 and earlier. (Message edited by buelliedan on January 08, 2016) | ||
| Newmans3 |
That sounds like a bad business decision to me. | ||
| Buelliedan |
why would that be a bad business decision? The new owner would be a fool to say he is going to honor warranties on bikes that he did not sell and made no money on. | ||
| Court |
I fear there is a gross lack of understanding of what receivership is. This isn't EBR "taking a break" . . finding some $$ and continuing on. | ||
| Newmans3 |
Severing ties won't build any loyalty. | ||
| Buelliedan |
As Court says there appears to be a huge lack of understanding of what has happened and what might happen in the future. The new company would not have any ties to sever as it would be a completely new company which has NOTHING to do with the old EBR and even less than nothing with Buell. | ||
| Newmans3 |
From a strictly financial perspective, I completely agree with you both. From a sales and marketing perspective however... If somebody buys whatever this is, and plans to produce motorcycles, if they like it or not, they are inheriting the EBR and even Buell legacy. If they offer up a big FU to an entire community of owners/fans, in a very small market segment, well to me, that is not a good business decision. Of course, maybe this is the reason I don't own a company, besides the money that is! | ||
| Davegess |
Newman has that right, it would be a huge marketing plus is some sort of coverage was offered. Question is how much could they afford? IF you have 5 mill and drop it all on warranty then you have nothing left to build bikes | ||
| Newmans3 |
Warranty numbers being thrown around seem high. How much warranty work is required as soon as they go live and offer it? Are we saying every one of these bikes are made that poorly? I find that hard to believe. Yeah, over the course of time it may eventually add up, but I would like to think that is after revenue starts.... | ||
| Ljm |
A bunch of us who have them are not asking or expecting a warranty. We will be happy if parts are available, and new bikes out there. The idea that the new owners have to cover the contracts of the old company demonstrates lack of understanding of the proceedings. | ||
| Zac4mac |
I bought my RS with warranty but EBR went tits-up after 4 months. No big deal to me, the wet-heads are mine to fix at NRHS. I have around 1k miles on it, some very hard with no issues that would apply to warranty.. Guess I'm one of the lucky ones. I certainly wouldn't expect the re-incarnation of EBR to warranty my RS. I would be very happy if I could get replacement parts at a fair price in the future though. Z | ||
| Steeleagle |
I'm with Zac. My warranties for the RSs have been long gone My concern would be availability of parts in the future. A liquidation would NOT be in my (or any other owner's) best interest, warranties be damned. | ||
| Cravacor |
Why are EBR owners concerned about liquidation being a bad thing for parts availability? I presume any liquidator would want to sell the parts, because that's what liquidators do. If the assets are sold to someone who intends to build and sell motorcycles how does that make it any easier for EBR owners to get parts for their bikes? | ||
| Midknyte |
If it goes to a liquidator, the parts inventory will be finite. Duhr | ||
| Classax |
Liquidators sell the parts that already exist, and by definition bring a halt to any progress on the ongoing manufacture of new parts. I want to race next year but I run GP shift, the part is standard on the RS but is not available any longer because what was made had been sold. Same for brake disk and clutch springs and dashes and some of the custom hardware. I want the new company continuing to make or source parts. | ||
| Cravacor |
Midknyte, And if it goes to someone else who promises to build motorcycles, parts will be available forever? Dai! Because the actual suppliers who made said parts are just dying to potentially be forked over for a third time? A-duh. You realize EBR didn't actually manufacture a great sum of the parts,I hope. | ||
| Nobuell |
Cravacor,- Why would vendors be screwed over for the third time? EBR has nothing to do with Buell. Buell did not go bankrupt, they closed. As far as I know, the vendors were not screwed over by HD. Parts are still available. | ||
| Midknyte |
>And if it goes to someone else who promises to build motorcycles, parts will be available forever? Who knows? I only said that the other path is a known dead end. Cheers. | ||
| Cravacor |
First time was because these vendors tooled up to supply parts for a bike that ended up only be in made for 2.5 years. I'm betting they wouldn't have tooled up if they had any idea the bike was only going to be made for such a short run. Second time their customer went tits up and quit paying its bills. Third time, who would take that risk? EBR has a lot to do with Buell in that they were manufacturing what, 80-90% the same product and used the same suppliers to source parts to build said bike. Liquidation is not a known dead end, it is a known guarantee that all parts and bikes on hand will be... liquidated, which means folk who want the parts will be able to buy them. The other choice of the assets being acquired by someone who promises to keep it a running business at best means delay while that new company figures out what to do with what they have on hand and how they are going to come up with tens of millions of dollars to start manufacturing bikes again, including convincing twice burned vendors to supply them with parts for a bike they may or may not continue manufacturing. Let's say they decide to start making much lower price point bikes, fuel in frame bikes with air cooled S&S motors, whatever is the cheapest, fastest path to profitability. I don't see how that path includes selling hot-rodded 2008 technology bikes at Ducati prices. If the new company aims to make money, it's not going to be as a parts broker for the 500 or so EBRs that are actually on the road and it's not going to be building boutique bikes to compete with the Italians and Austrians. | ||
| Bruce_belfer |
If one views EBR as merely the sum of its parts, as Cravacor espouses here, then he is correct. If, however, one sees the design team, the resources, the brand, and the possibilities as something more, then his view is somewhat limited. Having spent my 35 year career in manufacturing, making ideas into reality, I do not share his view. I never said this would be easy. I said it would be done. Bruce | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
I check this thread every few days to see what if anything is going on. I'm hopeful that some form of Erik Buell motorcycles are produced again.... some day I can't help to think some of the people at Hero need to be taken for a little walk behind the woodshed.... daily | ||
| Ace117 |
Bruce I wish you and Erik the best of luck tomorrow, I wish I could directly contribute to resurrecting EBR. Keeping fingers crossed. | ||
| Cravacor |
What elements of the design team and resources are included in the auction? Is the brand/name EBR included in the auction? Is the company EBR up for auction or are some of the assets that were in possession of EBR up for auction? Or some combination of those? Having spent my 25 year career in the auto, motorcycle and wireless telecom industries, my view is to know I don't control everything I work with and to be prepared to deal with the worst possible outcome. Having this view has allowed me to be a key part of teams that have built or repaired things when people said it couldn't be done. Specifically, installing antenna systems in and around national monuments and building communications towers in jurisdictions or on facilities where property owners said towers would never be built, or where the engineers said it shouldn't be built or where various federal, state and local agencies (US Army, USAF, USN, DISA, NSA, USMC, FEMA, NPS, GAO, FCC, FAA, University of Maryland, VADOT, MDSHA, DCDOT, and a long list of locals) had previously prohibited them. Along the way, I've learned to expect the best, plan for the worst, have a good team, have a plan B and know my partners and learn their experience and expectations and what is important to them. What do you manufacture, Bruce? |
