| Author | Message | ||
     Rohorn |
I find it very hard to believe that Erik, 8-9 other employees, and Bruce are doing this to return to April 2015. Time on your hands sometimes has a way of fast forwarding the future instead of producing copies of yesterday's work. | ||
| Zac4mac |
There is a lot in this platform. In September, I took my 1190RS to Colorado Mile Inaugural and did 172.4mph. I was hoping to beat 145. Last month I went to the Texas Mile and got rained on. With only 4 runs and 3 blown shifts, I hit 172.7... I thought it would be a good idea to go to GP-shift after 40 years of 1 down and X up. Erik and Bruce have a helluva platform to build on. Z | ||
| Submax |
Best of luck, Bruce! Here's hoping for good news in December!  | ||
| Classax |
With all due respect and best wishes and prayer, and any other positive vibes to Bruce and what's left of the EBR team, the capability of the bikes at the armature and semi pro racing level are not at issue. Nor are their street performance, what was an issue and will continue to be for the 2014s were production quality niggles and the elephant in the room a severely damaged reputation for quality. It is not pessimism that is slowly driving me and others like me away from not necessarily even the brand, but bikes we love, it is pragmatism. The key race parts most easily damaged in typical get offs (shift levers, gp Gift levers, rear set brackets, and consumable and maintenance (brake rotors, chain rubs ect) items are quickly becoming unobtainium. Not to mention without a dealer net work maintenance required every 6.3K miles is now extremely difficult for many of us who are mechanically COMPETENT or equipped well enough to properly due our own valve adjustments. There's the matter of the suppliers who did make parts but can't support owners directly. It all boils down to a very difficult situation. I am pulling for you as I don't want to get rid of my RX in favor of something else, but I'm sure you can understand if many of us do simply as a matter of practicality. The fact that the deal fell through because an unclear asset list is understandable. The fact the assets list was unclear is troubling in that the two EBR entities should not have a clear separation of duties and assets was troubling. More so I hope VMC was not allowed walk with the best of the EBR product development in addition to the stuff specifically developed for them. (Message edited by Classax on November 20, 2015) | ||
| Davegess |
Classax, I understand your pain here but you really have no idea of how complicated this has become behind the scenes. That Erik still has a pretty solid chance of getting back into production is simply stunning to me. Was EBR the best at everything? No but the 1190 is a damn fine motorbike. Lots of work to make it better? No question. Will all the fans be happy? No Fing way. | ||
| Classax |
"Classax, I understand your pain here but you really have no idea of how complicated this has become behind the scenes. That Erik still has a pretty solid chance of getting back into production is simply stunning to me." I have quite a good idea actually of the complexity involved in a deal like this, which is why I spoke about people patience running out just before we learned the deal hadn't actually closed. Its also why I am not at all surprised the financing fell through, particularly since Bruce was the only one interested in doing it as a going concern. My waning faith has to do more with the market conditions into which the possible Engineered By Riders LLC or INC or both will return if at all. The 106 2014 1190s with less than 500 miles on them across the country face significant and expensive challenges to being sold. That's to say nothings of 300 or so in at the factory waiting to be shipped to.... Whom??? Getting back to immediate production will only add to the glut. The supply chain is in shambles and may not be willing to work with the new company. (Hopefully Bruce is financing enough dough to repair those relationships, nothing say I love you like a wad of cash). The life blood for sales and the path to marketability is the dealers and they are hopeful but as a business decision many will find it harder to return the longer they are out in the current cold so to speak. You'll be hard pressed to find anyone who likes the bikes as much as me. The bikes really don't need all the launch, wheelie blah blah control, but if you want to sell them you're going to have to add that stuff, plus fix the issues with bodywork which is main source of warranty problems for just about all of us. Just getting back to production doesn't get you closer to selling bikes. Like I said I'm hoping for the best but in the medical community once a person has been without vital functions for beyond a certain period, necrosis at the extremities makes it harder and harder to fight infections and a repeat death even when one does manage to restore vital functions. We are close to reaching that point is all I'm saying. Fortunately I do believe in miracles. | ||
| Hughlysses |
To continue the medical analogy, let's hope EBR is like the coma patient that miraculously wakes up after a couple of months when nobody expected him to survive. | ||
| Lake_bueller |
production quality niggles and the elephant in the room a severely damaged reputation for quality People said the same thing in '99 when they first introduced the FI bikes. There were many disasters with quality/reliability that received a ton of attention. That being said...I hope for the best but I'm expecting the worst. The best days of Buell (in whatever name configuration) have long past. The only thing keeping Buell motorcycles from being Britten is the quantities produced and a premature death (by creator, not brand). They will be remembered in the history of motorcycles as ahead of their time and great creative designs. | ||
| Dave |
I don't think it's time to play taps. DAve | ||
| Midknyte |
>It's got to be back to the basics of design and rudeness. As much as I was thrilled with my Firebolt, I am rekindled by the 02 X1W I picked up. Big, barky, nasty - yet nicely balanced. On some level, I agree and it is definitely just as appealing when done right. | ||
| Steveford |
I'm with Midknyte, the X1W is my all time favorite Buell. It was made for the criminally insane so it's just perfect for me. What came after was a much more refined product but it's missing the rock and roll rowdiness (or the rude ride we relish, as they say). Kind of like a modern Norton Commando. If/when Buell relaunches, maybe take a good look at the new Triumph Thruxton styling. People are slapping down deposits because it's just such a handsome machine. | ||
| Jaimec |
I always felt that if my 2000 M2 Cyclone were reliable, it would've been my PERFECT motorcycle. It was ergonomically PERFECT for my kind of riding which was everything from daily commuting to weekend sport rides, occasional track days and even cross country trips. Unfortunately, it spent nearly as much time in the shop as it did in my garage and I just got tired of always having to deal with "another issue." The XB12Ss was "almost" there, but it didn't have the leg room of the Cyclone, nor did it have the range on a full load of fuel (on my ride to Daytona on the Cyclone I managed over 200 miles between fill-ups. Never got CLOSE to that range with the XB). Other than the regulator/rectifier though, I never had a problem with that bike. Oh, that and the muffler that looked like a rusted hunk of junk in less than a year. But that was an aesthetic problem, not one that prevented me from riding. (Message edited by jaimec on November 21, 2015) | ||
| Buelliedan |
I think we might be very surprised at the outcome of the auction next month. | ||
| Hughlysses |
^ Well, Erik did drop a hint. Whoever gets it, I just hope Bruce isn't SOL for all he's invested up to this point. | ||
| Ljm |
Where? Did I miss something? | ||
| Hughlysses |
OK, it's a pretty vague hint, but Erik indicated others were/are interested:
Source: http://www.jsonline.com/business/erik-buell-racing -motorcycle-company-deal-hits-a-roadblock-b9961675 4z1-350596331.html | ||
| Buelliedan |
I think when other parties learned what they could buy for such a low price they had regrets for not bidding. Now with the re-auction they are going to be bidding this time. I think Bruce's belief that he might be able to buy it again for even less than the first time is not going to happen. | ||
| Midknyte |
>In August, there were interested buyers who weren't ready then, according to Buell. Which might explain why Bruce and company has been so tight lipped. It would not serve him to let everyone know hey, here's a chance to snag it away from me... | ||
| Classax |
I don't think anyone thought it would go for what it did. Heck at less than $3M a few of us might have been able to put together a deal to win the auction. Of course capitalizing the business would have been a whole other story and since the goal is to keep it a going concern who ever wins has to show they have more capital than just the auction price. I wouldn't be surprised to see more bidders and the remaining assets go for more than they did the first time. Now may be the big OEM might take a stab at it. | ||
| Bud |
well 300 bikes ? left, times lets say you would get 9000 for theme a piece. only on the bikes there is some money to make. only problem is you only need to sell theme :-) and that is the catch 22 | ||
| Nobuell |
And there are not enough bikes that were sold to part them out for spares and make any money doing it. Unless the new sell price is very low. | ||
| Classax |
Honestly as long as the market feels the support in terms of parts and service are stable the 2014 bikes become a steal for the performance one gets at the last advertised specials of 13999. You can't get into a superbike anymore for less than that. If its a going concern I'll stay in but its getting harder as the days go by to believe it will be or that I should. | ||
| Ljm |
Here is my dilemma: having ridden most everything out there, I can't think of what I would like more. So, I could move on, but to what? I am am American bike guy and making a transition to something else would be difficult. | ||
| Steveford |
To reward his tenacity I hope that the winning bidder is Bruce Belfer, he gets the company for a lot less, the deal gets closed this time and they can move this forward. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
I dont care who buys it as long as it continues to make bikes and will branch out and not do just 180hp sportbikes etc Thanks to BB for trying to buy it once, thats awesome. But I dont care if he gets it in December or not | ||
| Cmmagnussen |
Yeah the 180hp bikes are getting old. Need to break into the 200 horse bracket | ||
| Ace117 |
The RX does break the 200hp bracket with race exhaust and ECU, its watered down from the factory even with its 160RWHP. | ||
| Stevel |
The RX does break the 200hp bracket with race exhaust and ECU, its watered down from the factory even with its 160RWHP Absolutely no way does the 1190 approach 200hp in any form. Even 180 is a stretch. | ||
| D_adams |
Mine has managed to nudge up against 180 hp at the wheel. This is with a race ecm and exhaust. The only 1190's that broke 200 hp were the factory built/massaged/tuned 1190's that were in the WSBK. 205-210 hp was the number I got from a pretty reliable source. Those motors had a VERY hard time staying in one piece though. Look back at how many May grenaded throughout the years. Seemed like every other race he was going through a motor after a catastrophic failure. If you want to run with that statement of "The RX does break the 200hp bracket with race exhaust and ECU" then it would have to be at the crank, not at the wheel. Without doing EXTENSIVE engine work, you'll never get there. I've tried to do so this past summer/fall. I've spent plenty of my own money (as in thousands of $$, just the ecm and widebands cost me $1300 alone) trying to get more out of it. So far on a dyno in a static environment, I hit 178.8 hp and 95.3 ft/lbs of torque, at the wheel. | ||
| Classax |
That's a 18rwhp increase over what my stock one produces not to mention the increase in torque as well. For the average club racer and trackday guy of like skills the RX gets round just as quick its 2015/16 rivals but without the need for all the nannies. Because of where it makes the power you can even holeshot most of the them until about 160mph where they make it back up pretty quickly on top. One can never have enough power, but by the same token I think we have clearly reached the point where it is clear that a a conventional superbike needs rider aids to put down anything north of 155rwhp and an unconventional approach to geometry ahla CBR1kRR and 1190RX t push that to the high 160's. All the 200hp(at the crank) race replicas do is electronically limit you back down to roughly those numbers until you get the bike picked up enough that it thinks you can progressively add more. Just my thoughts comparing the new R1 around a track to the RX. But yes the RX will knock on the door of 200hp but NOT with stock emissions hardware like some of its rivals. In the end it doesn't matter for reasons stated above. |
