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Bomber
| | Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 05:58 am: | 
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Cap -- I feel the same -- I was 12 hours outa Daytona's time zone when the race went down, and was pleased to see how the teams did --
looking forward to watching the learning process and seeing the Elves reap the rewards therefrom
never been able to understand those that gett agry when "their" team doesn't do well, or as well as they "should" -- as if mass consumption of beer and cheez food whilst warming a couch assisted their team in any way --
after reading on a number of boards, I am amazed at the number of out-of-work race bike riders and engineers post on the internet -- I wish them all the best of luck in finding a gig that will allow THEM to get to the point where they, too, can post a claim against pace cars, or watch a bike with THEIR name on the tank |
Mr_cuell
| | Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 09:49 am: |
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Alright I have enough time to consider this, write and delete several snide emails, and I have come to the conclusion y'all are right. The "we" stuff is misplaced in this context. I just wanted it to be different than it was. What really hits home is the comment - "Go build your own" Uh yea that would be a real prize winning machine I am sure. I can barely follow a manual on the existing bike. So until I fab a Daytona-finish capable machine from scratch I will keep my trap shut. |
Ortegakid
| | Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 11:30 am: |
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Mr.cuell,I applaud your post,was upset at first, glad you understand, and anony's post was very poignant wasn't it?!
We will all be so happy soon, can't wait! |
Captpete
| | Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 04:46 pm: |
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Good on ya, Mr_cuell. We probably all felt disappointment at the outcome, but that was a function of our expectations, which were not very realistic. That’s our fault, not BMC’s. If you felt anger, I suggest that you turn it inward to the real source.
In spite of the DNF’s, I don’t think you can argue that we Buell fans are looking forward to some exciting times. Like some one else posted: “What if they had been slow?”
Think about this: What if by some stroke of fate Jeremy had won that race. You would have trashed your living room, hooting and hollering and jumping all over the furniture. But that stroke was a one-time deal, and a Buell never saw the podium again for the whole season. Man, you’d have been pissed for the whole year!
But now, our expectations are a little more realistic, and we can all enjoy a full season of watching “our team” get better and better. Nothing to get angry about there. I look forward to reading your posts filled with the wild exuberance of a passionate fan.
Capt. Pete |
Court
| | Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 06:12 pm: |
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>>>In spite of the DNF’s, I don’t think you can argue that we Buell fans are looking forward to some exciting times. Like some one else posted: “What if they had been slow?”
That's it.
You've done it again.
You've said the smartest of things.
I love it.
"What if they'd been slow?"
We've much to celebrate.
Thanks, Capt! |
Lowlife
| | Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 06:47 pm: |
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Nobody is talking about the fact that these teams worked hard all week. There was an XBRR in nearly every field it is eligible for, throughout the week. Hell they even competed in a couple of classes on the day of the ARHMA races (Monday I think). It was all done in an effort to do the best they could on Saturday. They put a bike out there to practice every time they had a chance.
Make no mistake, Buell came to Daytona with their guns loaded. Even after the 200, Buell would still have to lose another 4 XBRRs to equal half of the number of Ducatis I've seen blow up on that track.
Here is Crevier's Bike
Another pic from the garage. Note the small chorus line of spare motors under the black table.
McWilliams practicing at the beginning of the week
My hat goes off to the individuals involved in Buell Racing for their hard work at Daytona '06! |
Davegess
| | Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 10:29 pm: |
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And many of those individuals volunteered their time. Buell got a LOT of free labor for this project, thye never coul dhave pulled it off with out the folks back in East Troy who punched out adn then walked over to the shop to build engines, box parts, etc.
A noble effort!! |
Bomber
| | Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 10:53 pm: |
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I number of people would have loved to see a different ending to the story, Cuell, me among them (along with you) --
racing's tough, even on a proven machine -- for the RR to have shown the speed and hadnling it did was durned near miraculous -- that it did not finish is a bummer, but no negative refelction on the group that build or raced em
am I the onliest guy that remembers Andy Granatelli almost winning INdy with a turbine powered rig that DNFed due to a 2-bit bearing? or the fact the it was banned summarily after the race (that it did not finish) due to the whining of the old guard?
much of racing takes place out of sight of the track -- while interesting, the political manueverings aren't nearly as drawing as watching riders work their butts off for us . . . . . .
Noble indeed! |
Court
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 05:12 am: |
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>>>>>punched out adn then walked over to the shop to build engines, box parts, etc.
The Legend of The Elves
Building amazing things that logic says should never have existed.
Dave, do you recall, neigh on 1989, when there absolutely positively HAD to be an RS1200 the next day?
The Buell path leading the start of Saturday's race is one of the most amazing stories in American business. |
Court
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 05:43 am: |
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quote:Court, what can I do to promote and ensure the future of Buell Racing?
Too many e-mails for me to answer off line, so let me tell you what *I* did, yeah, it's just my personal opinion.
- I wrote a Thank You note to Mr. Jon Flickinger; arguably the best friend Buell and Buell owners have ever had. At long last a true corporate exec with smarts and the cajones to have faith in the talent he leads.
- I went to the Warr's website, write them and thanked them and bought 2 (ouch...the exchange rate) of the MeWilliams race shirts.
- I wrote the AMA Pro Racing people and told them how pleased I was to see DAYTONA back on track to once again be one of the world's premier race events.
Mr. James L. Zeimer
President and Chief Executive Officer
Harley-Davidson Motor Company
3700 West Juneau Avenue
Milwaukee, WI 53208
and basically said that of all the companies with great racing histories, all pale in comparison to the legend of Harley-Davidson. I truly appreciated what Harley-Davidson has done, welcome home to where you belong. . . RACING.
I also told him what a visible show of support and their commitment it was seeing Willie G. and Nancy Davidson in Buell race gear cheering on the team. Willie is not a "toss in the towel" sort of a guy and has racing in his blood.
So....while the naysayers argue with each other, I'd urge each of you to
MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
And most of all thanks to you, the folks who have made Buell an American success story.
Court |
Davegess
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 09:42 am: |
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Bomber, I told that story to at least two people on Saturday.
I am not all upset that we DNF'd. i sure was hoping for more, I was so nervous I could not sit still. As the race wore on my nerves got worse. There are just so many things that can go wrong. Look a DuHamel, he had the thing won and pitched it away of no reason. |
Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 11:38 am: |
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Capt,
The DNFs were disappointing in the extreme for sure, but let me tell you about the rest of what I saw at Daytona.
I saw Jeremy McWilliams get a less than wonderful start - I think he went from 8th on the grid to 12th coming into turn one. But then I saw the veteran Irishman road racer commence disecting the field like a forensic surgeon running late for a golf game. Jeremy finished lap one in 9th and by lap 4 was running 7th. Once he hit the lappers he was nothing short of amazing; he executed passes in what seemed like impossible scenarios to me. I would see #999 coming down the big front straight approaching a gaggle of lappers - I'm thinking "bummer, Jeremy's going to be held up through the infield" - then the hair on my neck would stand straight up as McWilliams would with what seemed like a complete disdain for the laws of physics, alter his line smultiple times, cutting and weaving through the running chicanes of lappers, all while on the brakes and/or leaned hard over into the turn. It was friggin unbelievable! He made it look effortless, like he was merely dodging road kill on a sedate ride down a country road. Jeremy and the Buell obviously had the handling in the turns and on the brakes to run with the very best out there. The other Buell riders showed similar prowess. Ciccotto was riding possessed; unfortunately so was his machine.
As interesting as what I saw is what I heard, or more accurately what I didn't hear. I didn't hear the Buells. They were absolute stealth machines. No one could hear them coming. They were by far the quietest bikes at all of Daytona Beach, and I'm not just talking about the race bikes! LOL! It was actually kind of cool. I could only really hear the Buells when they ran past absent any accompanying competitors' machines.
For me, the on track performance before the unfortunate drivetrain failures was extremely positive. The brake flat out works. The chassis flat out works. The engine works. Have zero doubt that with just a little patience, perseverance, and further development, these dealership sponsored machines, their racers and teams will be a serious threat to the top juggernaut factory teams and riders.
It sure was nice to see Disalvo served a slice of humble pie too. Apparently being fastest running on qualifying tires with a special qualifying engine doesn't translate to a race win; oops he wasn't even the fastest qualifier. In the big factory FX war it is now Honda - 1, Yamaha R6 wunderturbinebike - 0.
Apart from Buell, I'll be rooting for Josh Hayes in FX. I've always liked him.
It was great to see a Ducati 749 finish the race! Hearing that bike run past was pure music to my ears compared to the insessant grating insectoid whine of the Japan Inc. 600cc IL4 machines.
The other highlight of the weekend was getting to meet so many wonderful folks. There was this one guy named Court who pulled a fast one on Erik in front of a crowd of Buell enthusiasts... remind me to tell you about it sometime. 
More later.
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Court
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 11:53 am: |
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>>>>There was this one guy named Court who pulled a fast one on Erik in front of a crowd of Buell enthusiasts
Shhhhhhh. . . don't get us in trouble. We're still on "Double Super Probation".
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Reepicheep
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 12:45 pm: |
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Just curious, is the only reason for running a chain instead of a belt to facilitate gearing changes?
I know the belt could handle the power, would be lighter, would not stretch, and would allow the zero lash drivtrain to stay zero lash.
If that's the only issue, how hard would it be to either change the gearing on the trap door tranny, or produce a run of different belt sprockets, maybe with some tensioner adapters kits (if necessary) to adapt as necessary.
Maybe it would make tire changes slower... though I am having a hard time picturing how.
It'd be pretty cool to see an FX Buell running a belt, and would allow swingarms to be lighter and stiffer (they can clamp the rear axle like on the street bikes) and allow a lighter drive train with zero lash (which I think would eliminate a lot of potential niggling problems). |
Light_keeper
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 01:18 pm: |
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Well I think the whole thing is very cool. Win or not I still have pride in my ride. If "we" just walked in and won every thing lock stock and barrel something would have seemed fishy. Especially to the other makes. They it seems are looking for any reason to keep "us" out anyway. This is making for a great story. Bunch of diehard fans backing the little guy reguardless who "we" hope will come out on top after a hard won fight. In the long run (my opinion) it really will be the best way to do it. I like to think that these are nothing more than teathing problems. Go team Go win or not I'm still a fan. I was a Patriots fan and a Red Sox fan for years so I have staying power.The buell shirts are cool looking too.
 |
Jscott
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 01:41 pm: |
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Speaking of staying power - I'm a Bengals fan. |
Captpete
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 04:36 pm: |
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Thanks, Blake. That was the “how it went down” stuff I was asking for.
And I even enjoyed your predictable style of insulting prose this time: “the insessant grating insectoid whine”
(Although I did find it a bit strange that as I first read that bit, the fact popped into my mind that insectoid rhymes with hemorrhoid. Maybe there’s a motoracing country tune in there trying to get out?)
It might be better than my last near miss country tune about lost love: “You Flushed Me From the Bathroom of Your Heart.”
Anyway, I regret that I wasn’t able to be there with y’all. But next year, one way or another…
Tell us some more about what you saw.
CP |
Chauly
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 05:39 pm: |
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"What if they had been slow?"
I helped a privateer a couple of times with the VR-1000 in the pits, and that was the biggest frustration: Power. Slowness. Torque-less-ness.
The chassis was great, suspension great, Wilwood brakes great. He could gain on Stroud and the Britten in the infield, handle the transitions between infield and banking with aplomb, steer anywhere he wanted, but when the going got fast, the VR was.... slow. Probably lacking 20-30 Hp compared to the competition, and nowhere could the missing ponies be found. Now, it's impossible to compare the 1:54's the VR ran with the 1:42's of the XB-RR, but consider that McWilliams' qualifying effort would have had him mid-pack of the Superbikes, better than my friend's VR ever did, then you can see that posing any kind of comparison of VR-history with XB-RR-history is just about meaningless. The best comparison that could be made is in the cost of racing: The VR was $50K a dozen years ago, and cost him $10K per racing hour. If the XB costs stay in line, they are definitely better for the privateer racer, a stated goal of the program.
Now, who thinks that the XB-RR engine would not make a good XR-750 replacement in GN? |
Morgans
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 06:27 pm: |
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I work for a Buell dealership and I was just handed a press release that Buell is circulating.
The short version. They are proud of the effort the riders and teams made on Saturday. All four bikes suffered from a suspected clutch/primary drive related problem or problems.
The Daytona 200 is the longest race of the year, so I am interested in seeing how the bikes fare in the "normal" length races. |
Paint_shaker
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 07:28 pm: |
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Reepicheep wrote;
"Just curious, is the only reason for running a chain instead of a belt to facilitate gearing changes?
I know the belt could handle the power, would be lighter, would not stretch, and would allow the zero lash drivtrain to stay zero lash.
If that's the only issue, how hard would it be to either change the gearing on the trap door tranny, or produce a run of different belt sprockets, maybe with some tensioner adapters kits (if necessary) to adapt as necessary.
Maybe it would make tire changes slower... though I am having a hard time picturing how.
It'd be pretty cool to see an FX Buell running a belt, and would allow swingarms to be lighter and stiffer (they can clamp the rear axle like on the street bikes) and allow a lighter drive train with zero lash (which I think would eliminate a lot of potential niggling problems)."
I am far from a techno guy, but I was thinking the same thing. Could they leave it a belt drive and use different size belt tension wheels to compensate for sprocket changes??
Just curious... |
Cataract2
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 10:11 pm: |
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I think the reason was it was easier and probably cheaper to run chain for gear ratio changes. |
186bigtwin
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 12:10 am: |
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The XBRR will do better, it's called development; all great race engines have to go through some teething pains, the first iron XR-750s were disasters; they ran so hot they melted their pistons at almost every race, hey; they were nicknamed the Waffle Iron,and had about 60 RWHP(on a good day) and were no faster than the side valve KR-750s they replaced,however after a year they had 80 RWHP and stayed together for most races (with as many as 3 oil coolers), but when the first aluminum XR-750 came out they were tested side by side with the old iron jobs and the old ones were faster (dual carbs on both), but look where the aluminum XR program ended up, it's probably the most successful race engine of all time! The XBRR will be all right as long as the AMA leaves it alone for a year or two. It's funny the Jap teams don't care how big a Harley engine is until it starts winning! Check the history. |
Brucelee
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 10:00 am: |
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Blakes comment on the sound of the Jap bikes is dead on.
BORING! Same goes for how they sound on the street.
Hmm, is that why I bought a twin? |
Roadsurfr
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 01:28 am: |
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Yeah... What Blake said. And Brucelee. I like that shot of Erik with that 'proud father' look on his face. Just think if the AMA hadn't pulled the plug on 2-stroks 20-something years ago. |
Jimidan
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 10:47 am: |
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Chauly sez:
"Now, it's impossible to compare the 1:54's the VR ran with the 1:42's of the XB-RR, but consider that McWilliams' qualifying effort would have had him mid-pack of the Superbikes, better than my friend's VR ever did, then you can see that posing any kind of comparison of VR-history with XB-RR-history is just about meaningless."
It will be a lot easier to compare lap times on tracks where they both run, like Mid Ohio or Road Atlanta. Then it will not be so tough as it was in Daytona...apples and apples.
Maybe I am not remembering my history correctly, but I don't think that HP and torque was really the problem with the VR1000. The dang things wheelied everywhere. It was getting it to the ground that was the biggest challenge.
jimidan
(Message edited by jimidan on March 29, 2006) |
Jimidan
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 11:00 am: |
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Court sez:
"The Buell path leading the start of Saturday's race is one of the most amazing stories in American business."
Who is going to write it down? I think you may just be da' man!
jimidan |
Court
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 01:34 pm: |
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>>>Who is going to write it down?
You are right. The time is now. Statute of limitations has passed on some signigicant impediments.
In talks with publisher. We shall see. Anyone want to offer up letters of reference?
It may be a bit different if you are lookign for a straight dry biography sort of a thing. Writing about Erik Buell can be like tossing a golf ball into a concrete room. The first step is understanding it's NOT a bookm about motorcycles.
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Road_thing
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 01:50 pm: |
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Letter of reference?
Yeah, remind me sometime...
rt |
Roadsurfr
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 08:51 pm: |
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Roadthing, Wish I had said that...  |
Diablobrian
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 29, 2006 - 11:59 pm: |
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Thanks for the update Court |
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XBRR Threads Consolidated Here! »
None of the controversial Buells finished the race, much less proved to be a contender for the win. »
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