| Author | Message | ||
     Buellkat |
I am having a problem with my battery discharging. I charged the original HD battery this Spring and the bike turned over a hand full of times after riding. Then it was discharged. This was a 3 yr old battery so I purchased a new one. I rode it again half dozen times and again, no start. But, when I put the battery on the charger, it shows full charged. I tested the Voltage Regulator with the instructions per manual. That seems fine. Please HELP?!} | ||
| Ezblast |
Voltage regulator and battery fine, but still no cranking? - Correct? - that still leaves ignition, starter, and coil/plug wire. It really sounds like a loose wire/short type of thing. So far I haven't had this type of problem, but other causes have been the kick stand sensor, tilt sensor, etc. - do lights come on when you turn the key? GT - JBOTDS! EZ  | ||
| Henrik |
Your story sounds like charging system problems despite your charger showing battery fully charged; either voltage regulator or stator problems. I believe your manual has instructions for checking the stator as well. If you have an older battery charger, it may not display correctly with the newer sealed batteries. For instance, my old Battery Tender can't charge my newer sealed batteries completely. Keep us posted Henrik | ||
| Buellkat |
I don't have the meter to continue, i.e. stator EZ it cranks like a dead battery. I will overlook all the wires for a possible cause, but just seems strange that is cranks fine a 1/2 doz. times and then nilch, nada, nothin'. | ||
| Buellkat |
Henrik, I do have a newer battery charger, bought 2 yrs ago. It has 2amp, 6amp, and another choice. I dont think its the charger....thks | ||
| Ezblast |
You checked for loose plug and coil wires - thats happened to me about 3 times - plug wire worked loose from plug but still on top of it. Coil wires loose or coil itself is a second guess, also the circuit breaker could be loose or damaged. The PDF Manual on line has a full electrical diognostic chart for this, it also mentions the sensors - so it may be the bank angle sensor, or kickstand sensor (this I would check first) - I'm sure others will pipe up with how to check and loop around those to see if that is the problem - easy fix and the usual culprit in such cases. Anyone else to speak up on disarming the switch - it usually involves foil jamed into the contact - haven't had to do myself. GT - JBOTDS! EZ | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
A bad battery cable or connection will cause those symptoms.Check for that first. Also Try cranking it and feel for heat (or smoke). A bad starter can also take a load to turn over. So can a bad starter solenoid.Which can go to click,click,click after getting hot.(just like a starter). | ||
| Buellkat |
Thank you EZ, I have a manual and will look at chart, first I will follow the wires per your suggestion. I don't understand how the switches would effect starting.... | ||
| Buellkat |
Erik, Thks.... but I do not have smoke or clicking sounds either. I am familiar with these noises from 4 wheeled vehicles. It fires right up when not having this weird discharging of my battery. | ||
| Buellkat |
I concur Erik  | ||
| Ezblast |
Try the kickstand sensor trick also - a known cause of that problem. Download the PDF version from on line - it has a complete diognostic chart that regular manuals don't have in full. GT - JBOTDS! EZ | ||
| Reepicheep |
Bad switches would be a "all on or all off" deal. If it cranks slower... and sloooowwwerrrr.... and sloooooooooowwwweeeeeeeerrrrrr... then won't do a thing, it is probably not a switch. Batteries are hard to test with cheap and small parts, battery chargers are notorious for having cheap and small parts in them. I would not be inclined to trust the meter on the tester. You can buy usable digital multimeters for like $6 and up at Harbor Freight, maybe bigger computer stores or electronics stores (Fry's, Micro Center) as well. They are expensive at some auto parts stores, and at Radio Shack. Home Stores might have an affordable one as well. They are well worth the investment. Auto Zone or similar place might loan you one for a deposit. Even with the meter, it will be hard to test the battery, but you can test everything else. My guess is your stator, I think the battery charger meter is a red herring. You will need a meter. Start with the impedance (resistance) test as per the manual, then fire up the bike and measure the AC output, all disconnected from the voltage regulator. | ||
| Buellkat |
thank you Reep, I ran out and purchased a meter. I will check the components but how can I fire up the bike when that is the problem? No turn over...hmmm | ||
| Reepicheep |
I carefully jump started mine (from the car). But do the stator impedance check first, the bike does not need to be running for that. You just pop off the plug that goes to the voltage regulator (tucked under the cam cover on my cyclone) and measure from each wire to ground. Or from each wire to each other. I forget which, but the manual describes it pretty well. Just for grins, slap that meter on volts (DC), and put it across your battery terminals with the ignition on and the headlight on high beams, and tell us what it says. That won't give the absolute answer, but will suggest we are on the right track. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Here is a rough attempt at an approach for solving this. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=3842&post=247836#POST 247836 In hindsight, or just my current mood, skip to step 4, I will paste it here: 4) Disconnect the alternator wires outputs from the voltage regulator inputs. Follow the wires from the voltage regulator, there is a big rubber connector with cable ties around it tucked under the cam cover. You will probably need cut the cable ties holding it to the oil lines to get them apart. Measure the resistance between each pin on the wires coming from the stator (engine side) and ground. It should be really high (infinity). If it is low (mine read 5 ohms, toast), it is grounded and is toast. Also measure the resistence between the two pins (not pins to ground, which you did before, but pin to pin). This should be low, .2 to .4 ohms. Slap a meter set on AC volts across the two holes in the stator side of that connector you just pulled apart with the bike running (you will need a battery installed for this). You should see something like 30 to 50 volts AC. If you dont see it, either the alternator is dead, or the wiring between it and your connection has broken. Double check it from the manual, but I bet it's all correct. You are not cutting any cables here, just the nylon zip ties holding the connector together. | ||
| Rocketman |
BEFORE YOU GET TO INVOLVED you need to establish some facts. It is important to know if your battery is good. You really need to put a load tester across it. If the battery is good you need to connect an ammeter (amp meter)or a multimeter that supports 20 amps range to your bike. With the battery sat normal on the bike remove only the live wire from the battery. Connect one side of the ammeter or multimeter to this now disconnected wire and connect the other side of the ammeter or multimeter to the live terminal on the battery. With the ignition switch OFF there should be NO amps measured on whichever meter you're using. If amps are been drawn, typically 1/2 to 1 amp, from the battery then indeed something on your bike is faulty. Fault find by removing fuses or disconnecting electrical items one by one and watch the meter. If it shows no discharge of amps when you've removed or disconnected (one by one remember) a certain item, chances are you've found the problem. This is a very simple test to initially find out if you battery power is going somewhere. Do this test first and you'll save yourself a lot of grief. Rocket | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
Thank you Rocket! That IS a simple test. I see a lot of questions that aren't being answered before I would start pulling wires (or anything) apart. I do know that I've rarely ever had to use a meter (test light yes,Blasts are simple,remember) to diagnose an electrical problem. This one sounds simple, but through all these posts I still don't have a clear idea of exactly what the problem or symptoms are. As was stated, start with the basics. Is the starter/solenoid getting power? What isn't getting power? Is the battery really dead? Does it do this only after sitting? How long? | ||
| Reepicheep |
Agreed Rocket, those are good and simple tests. Most auto parts stores can probably load test on the battery for you, just pull it from the bike and bring it to them. You can't do a load test with simple home equipment (yet... but I've been thinking about it...) We should add the note that it is important to *NOT* hit the starter with this setup though, it will blow your meter. Also, if your ammeter is hypersensitive, you will see some current flowing even with the ignition off, but it will only be like 12/1000 of an amp (12 milliamps) (as I recall). Some basics of meter use might be applicable here as well. Most multimeters will measure both voltage across two points, and current flowing through something, but not at the same time, and you have to change something on the meter to tell it which you are trying to measure. If your meter is set up to measure volts, you can pretty much put the two leads anywhere and measure anything and nothing will get hurt. You will just measure voltage. If that same meter is set up to measure current (amps) though, you can only measure it by having the current actually flowing through the meter. That means you have to "disconnect" what you are trying to measure, and "reconnect" the path via the two meter leads. The meter basically becomes a short circuit. Rocket describes this nicely above when he talks about disconnecting the hot lead of the battery. This means if your meter is set to measure amps, and you just slap the two leads across the battery, you are (for a brief shining moment) measuring the current that will flow from a shorted out battery... which on a bike is several HUNDRED amps. Heck, even one of those little NiMh rechargable AA batteries can deliver like 30 amps if shorted, enough to set something on fire (been there... done that). So if you have your meter set to measure amps and slap one lead on your positive battery terminal, and the other on your negative, and you are lucky, your meter will simply blow a fuse and be rendered inoperable until you replace it. If you are less lucky, the meter will go up in smoke. (note: there are inductive meters that can measure current that avoid this problem, but they are a little pricey for your typical do it your selfer). | ||
| Naughtynurse |
My battery went 2 times had to charge it. Had to take it to Uke's to get a new stator only 400 miles on the bike too. | ||
| Buellkat |
Thank you all VERY much for your suggestions. I particularly like the explanation of the meter. Wishful thinking paid off (wink @ Reep) except I cannot give any solution yet because the local Radio Shack that I ran out and purchased the meter 5 mins. before closing was out of the 12v battery for the meter that I did not know was NOT included last night. So now I will run to the "big city" get all the necessary equipment. It would be even better if I knew what was wrong so if I needed a part it could be ordered whilst in the "big city".....oh well... I will report with any/all results when I get done running around on 4 wheels instead of 2!! I just wanna ride.......  | ||
| Buellkat |
Good news perhaps. I returned the battery because it would not charge, it was only 3 wks old. I swapped it out for "defective". So far so good, I have rode over 200 miles with stops/starts and I still have a charge. I did all of the above tests and the manual tests with a multimeter and it seems all was fine there. Time will tell if I need to troubleshoot further. Thanks again for your help. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Thats good news Kat... let us know if the problems come back. It can be annoying to track this stuff down, but generally works out before long. | ||
| Rocketman |
To be honest I thought it sounded much like your battery was to blame. I've not had much success with these gel batteries either. Despite Optimate hook-up I've never had one last much longer than a year. Rocket | ||
| Buellkat |
Hi fellow Blasterds LOL I am having the problem again with my battery being discharged. I have tried to diagnose as much as possible from all the earlier suggestions. I have disconnected the Positive cable from the battery (which I charged) and put my meter on the negative still connected to charged battery and the other lead from the meter to the positive cable. No amp reading. I started the bike with hi-beams on and put the meter on the battery it read 11.8. Stator wiring, which was disconnected from stator and wiring to alternator. The black unit near the drain lines. While bike is running the meter reads 33 which is good. when bike is off, meter leads on pins no reading, meter leads inserted in female wiring and no reading. Leads on pins, to ground, .7. So now do we have a possible diagnosis?? *crossing my fingers* | ||
| Reepicheep |
Was that stator reading volts, or ohms? Measure that connection again, with the ignition off, and set your meter for resistance (ohms). Tell us what that said. Then set the meter for volts AC, and fire up the bike. Tell us what it says then. That will probably give us a decent idea if the stator is dead or not. (Also posted this question here - http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/3842/3589.html?1087618897 - Moderator) edited by ezblast on June 19, 2004 | ||
| Buellkat |
I did the earlier tests that way. Volts=33 for the bike started Bike not running Ohms for the pin resistance 0-zero 1.1 (ohms) leads in the plug/connector | ||
| Reepicheep |
The AC output should have been 38 to 52 volts with a good stator and rotor. 33 is odd. Measure (on the stator side) the resistance (ohms) for each pin to ground. This will be two measurements. Get a good ground off the negative battery terminal or a shiny bolt on the engine somewhere. It should be infinity (no change from when the probes are touching nothing). | ||
| Buellkat |
I started the bike with the connections to the battery loose, while the engine is running I pulled the negative off and the motor died. I would have to believe this should NOT happen. Does this quicken a solution? Stator ? | ||
| Reepicheep |
Not sure. The design of the voltage regulator (full loss shunt style) is such that I could make a theoretical case either way. My gut feeling is that at low RPM without a battery (or at least a large capacitor) the bike would probably run badly. At higher RPM, it might do better. I think three resistance measurements with the ohm meter on one connector could answer the stator question definitively in under 10 minutes. Use the connector (female I think) the wire that goes off into the primary from the voltage regulator. All done with the bike off. Measure between the two sockets in the rubber plug, resistance in ohms. Write this down. Measure between socket A (whichever) and the negative battery terminal, resistance in ohms. Write this down. Measure between socket B (the other whichever) and the negative battery terminal, resistance in ohms. Write this down. If you want to do a fourth while you are already greasy, double check your AC volts reading. Start up the bike (battery in and charged). Measure between socket A and socket B while revving the engine up to 3000 rpm or so. Meter should be set to read Volts AC. I think this is how you got your 33 reading, but I expected to see that either a lot better (50 Volts AC) or a lot worse (5 Volts AC). Whenever I see results that don't make sense, I like to rerun the test (especially when the test is easy). | ||
| Buellkat |
Measure between the two sockets in the rubber plug, resistance in ohms. 1.5 ohms Measure between socket A (whichever) and the negative battery terminal, resistance in ohms. Write this down. .9 negative cable "0" zero to neg. terminal Measure between socket B (the other whichever) and the negative battery terminal, resistance in ohms. .9 negative cable "0" zero to neg. terminal If you want to do a fourth while you are already greasy, double check your AC volts reading. Start up the bike (battery in and charged). Measure between socket A and socket B while revving the engine up to 3000 rpm or so. Meter should be set to read Volts AC. I think this is how you got your 33 reading, but I expected to see that either a lot better (50 Volts AC) or a lot worse (5 Volts AC). 52 AC volts |
