| Author | Message | ||
     Blasted77 |
Question for you road racers. I have seen one club allow the blast into their 250 cup/superstock class with similar mods (suspension, intake, exhaust, jetting). But no one seems to run there. Given a similarly prepped ninja 250 and buell blast, how would the lap times compare? Based on what I saw from some willow springs info, the blast would get owned. But then again, that is just one track and it is mostly higher speeds. A second question: Does anyone still race their blast? | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
Ask at the racing section if anyone still races a Blast. If you quite me Willow Springs 250 lap times, I can tell you how competitive the Blast will be. I don't have the ability to search that info right now. | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/158 664/3601.html?1399295138 | ||
| Blasted77 |
Thanks! I didn't realize there is a completely separate section. | ||
| Ezblast |
Those little Ninjas are seriously prepped for racing, only a handful of us Blast owners have even taken the Blast that far, and only a few then raced it. By all rights a seriously worked on Blast should have the edge, but that is about 5000 or more dropped into it, just like the guys racing those massaged Ninja 250s - lol - they are not stock by a long shot, or Blasts would dominate the track. Racing is a serious hobby, much money is dropped into it to just be competitive, let alone produce a winning bike. If you have the money, it can be done. EZ | ||
| Blasted77 |
Yes, I know it's expensive. It would be nice to find a class with such little prep allowed that the costs are way down. Or even better a class with a dollar limit on everything including purchase price of the bike. Like comparing to car racing, they have Chump Car and LeMons racing. | ||
| Blasted77 |
I guess tires are a weak link too. | ||
| Blasted77 |
Hey EZ. Can we say for comparisons sake to compare your modified blasts in this example? With maybe the exception of keeping the head and cylinder stock? I have been thinking about this for a short time. Even if the suspension was spot on, and a comparable whp can be had..... the tires would make it all not worth it. Do you agree? | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
Quote me willow springs 250 'big track' lap times and I will tell you if it's a) competitive or b) what you will need to make it so. I did spend quite a bit of time campaigning several Blasts at willow Springs!!!! | ||
| Ezblast |
The New Ninja's are running 17" tires - that means better rubber, the older Ninjas where running the same rubber as the Blast - so that wasn't the issue - no club racer is going to run stock - if he says he is - he's lying - no one runs stock on a track and hopes to even show - just will not happen. Ninja or Blast. Gear has the jist of it. I really don't think stock heads/cyl are going to cut it. They are low compression for reliability, and would need bumping to be made competitive. The Ninja's have higher comp, but a weak cam for longevity. EZ | ||
| Blasted77 |
I guess it sounds like I will be selling the blast. I had a thought to try club racing on a slow bike. There is a ULW vintage class that sounds fun for that. | ||
| Ezblast |
Whatever, ErikO did a lot of racing on that puppy - Vik talks shit about everything, his word is worth shit - have told him to his face. Father of sacborg - he is no fan of Buells. You can make the bike competitive - but not in stock form, just as none of those Ninjas racing are stock - that is the reality. Same goes for superbikes - you can race them, but stock configuration will keep you in last place - racing is about winning - therefore you have to invest a certain amount to give yourself at least a minimal chance to win. The first Blast racer raced in the 500cc class against a world of twins, and lost for 3 years straight, however, on his 3rd year he finally invested in the bike and was no longer last and pulled off three 3rd places for the series that year. By then though he had already nick-named his bike B-last and it stuck as a Blast title, even when Blast riders won - who cared? - It made it just more fun to beat those guys with your B-last testifying to your skill over their power. Racing is about trying to win though, and you should give your self and the bike every edge you can afford. EZ | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
No lap times for me to address, so I'll concur with EZ. Have you done a track day? If not, do a few before you invest in another motorcycle. And track days are still not racing, but it will give you an idea if you'll enjoy it or even be able to run with the pack. The Blast is a very cheap track day bike. It can also be made fast and reliable, relatively cheaply (within reason). The tires are cheap and they last. For the most part you can run a Blast in any class you like, as long as you arent dangerously slow or arent beating anybody. But they dont just let anybody race. It usually involves a class and a qualifying lap time. Two quotes about the Blast from track days: "Wow, how much horsepower is that Buell pushing? 60? 70?" "They said they're going to have to move us up to the advanced class, the Blasts are just too fast" So see how you fair up at a track day first, before you go motorcycle shopping. | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
Yeah, not sure why you're on a Buell site if you dont own a Buell..............funny..... | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
Uh....Doesnt EBR have a bike suitable for that class???? | ||
| Ezblast |
Yeah - the new Hero bike would stomp all over that class - lol EZ | ||
| Eeeeek |
EZ said "Vik talks shit about everything, his word is worth shit - have told him to his face. Father of sacborg - he is no fan of Buells." You have done no such thing. Come to any AFM race and tell me I'm full of shit. Hell, I'll even come back to an ASBN night of your choice. | ||
| Eeeeek |
Man, you've got me all riled up again. This is why I took a break from the site for so long. I have a different viewpoint than you and you instantly turn it into shit slinging. I'm out. I might pop back in in another five years. Do look me up, though. I'm always a fan of seeing how keyboard courage translates into the real world. | ||
| Ezblast |
Screw - you forget the EBR dinner - I told you that then - a smile on my face - lol - please next - the guy who runs sacborg - rip - you want sympathy - bark up another tree - you and your group where the rudest, loudest group of Buell-Anti fans to roll across the net - on sacborg I fought just to get a reasonable response - all I ever got was horseshit and bull. Take that 'but I'm a Buell fan' bs somewhere else who doesn't know your history - that won't wash here. I met you and Blake there - I know what's up. EZ | ||
| Blasted77 |
Well I didn't want to kick up any dirt here. I guess still some helpful responses. I am still curious how EQUALLY prepared and ridden blast/250 would fare. I have auto racing experience and thought about making the switch to bikes to keep costs down. But yes it's true I have never tracked a bike. | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
That's what you need to do first. (Again, if you have access to Willow Springs track times, I can give you a better answer). Some things that happen: you find out you are way slow and it might not be worth it. You find out you are very quick and a slow bike just isn't going to cut it. You realize pitching a bike into a turn has a greater fear factor (or adrenaline rush) than pitching a car into a turn (one can hurt a lot, the other might just be pulling back into the track!) Track days are addictive, but you might already know that! Blast tires are cheap, 17" tires are not. Auto racing as you know is expensive on tires alone. The Blast is also crash friendly-no expensive bodywork to replace. You can probably find a comparable lap times class to run in. Also check out vintage racing. Usually new riders are welcomed, it supports the sport. Except for the 600cc class, it always seemed there was a shortage of riders in each class. Maybe that's changed, but I don't think so. Just do it. Start cheap and go from there. Fwiw: if you're at a track day on a Blast and you're the slowest rider out there, it's not the Blasts fault! Trust me on this one! | ||
| Ezblast |
Take this time with a grain of salt - the guy who did it was a pro - not a club racer - Brian Bartlow turned a 1:39.8 in a race there - I'm pretty sure the club racers are a lot slower than that - lol - from the father of dis-information - I would bet that the club racers time is probably closer to the 1:5 area if not higher - still that is a damn hot lap for any bike there. Showing a man's skill, not the bikes - to do that on a 250cc, but then the guy is a serious pro as well - so take that with a grain of salt - his caliper will not be racing in the 250cc club races - lol - there's no dirt - but some folks think that their past is forgotten and that they can say anything and what they say will be accepted. That history is old and forgotten by the new folks, but old time Buell fans will remember. EZ | ||
| Eeeeek |
EZ, Don't let the facts get in the way. Bartlow, while a skilled rider, is not ten seconds a lap faster than everyone else. Here are the top ten from this last weekend's 250 race at Sears Point: 1 211R E Henning, Ari 01:56.021 55 7 2013 Honda CBR250R šU 2 204R E Faussett, Adam 01:55.748 48 7 2010 Kawasaki 250R šU 3 17 E Kondo, Eric 01:56.242 42 7 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250 šU 4 29 E Bartlow, Brian 01:56.056 37 7 2008 Kawasaki Ninja 250 šU 5 230 E Johnson, Paul 01:57.342 32 7 2008 Kawasaki Ninja 250 šU 6 32 E Corcoran, Patrick 01:58.770 27 7 2012 Kawasaki 250R šU 7 77R E Fogle, Josh 01:57.734 23 7 2008 Kawasaki 250R šU 8 943 E Buchcik, Patryk 01:59.293 20 7 2011 Kawasaki Ninja 250 šU 9 931 E Corbin, Sean 02:00.523 17 7 2008 Kawasaki Ninja 250 šU 10 784 E Wade, Darin 02:01.824 15 7 2008 Kawasaki Ninja 250 šU Here are other times for Ninja 250's at Big Willow: Wes Totsubo 1:40.338 Jeff Tigert 1:40.38 Do a little research and you'll see a lot of people running 41s-43s. But you never were a big fan of facts. And dude, let the hate go. I let SacBORG die years ago. It started out as a Pro-Buell site and eventually evolved into a home for people who had many issues with their Buells. If you keep talking shit, I'll keep coming back. I'm actually starting to enjoy exposing your ignorance and lies. I challenge you to find something I've typed that's not truthful. (Message edited by eeeeek on May 09, 2014) | ||
| Ezblast |
Exactly what I was saying - those times 1:5 area are what the club racers will probably average - not what the pro's you also mentioned averaged getting on a 250cc and making those times - different quality of racer and racing - those are the facts that I was looking at as well - Wes and Jeff being a bit higher in caliber than the other club guys, but before I'll let the father of SACBORG just spout off "facts" I'll have them checked and qualified. Give a pro any bike and his track times should be a miracle for the rest to achieve - still they should be goals as well. But times to beat - really? No - I'm being straight up - it's you I've never trusted. I've seen your game - there is no honor there. EZ | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
Low 1:40's are achievable (at Willow) on a stock Blast frame, wheels and suspension with a stock XB top end (or equivalent). Add a decent rear shock and upgrade the fork internals and it will be easier. All That is nothing outrageous to do. Upgrade to 17" wheels and you're faster. Add the XB frame and you're in the 130's. So it's possible to compete. But just do it. Get out there and find out your skill level first. Then buy a bike based on that. Racers are traditionally addicted to going faster. By another slug of a motorcycle and you may have just wasted money. Or it may be money well spent. You don't know until your out there and unless you're a complete a-hole (or obviously lacking skill) someone else will let you take their bike out on the track. | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
FWIW: the easy answer is always: "just go out and buy a jap' bike." But please, just go get your feet wet! The cheapest racing leathers and gear will cost a minimum of $600. Then you'll need to race prep the bike (but that's not usually necessary for track days anymore). Unless you're afraid to show up on a Blast.....  Do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it do it  | ||
| Eeeeek |
Hey EZ, Sears Point is not Willow Springs. Notice Bartlow running a 1:56 at SEARS POINT was not the fastest rider. Kinda discredits your "he's ten seconds a lap faster theory." Again, sorry to let the facts get in the way of your fantasy. I've raced with Bartlow for over ten years. He would always do well in our club, but he wouldn't always win and there were plenty of people, at the club level, who were right there with him. The results speak volumes. He absolutely flies, but he's not untouchable and there are years worth of race results to prove just that. | ||
| Ezblast |
LOL - no one is untouchable - maybe Rossi - lol - 10 seconds? - no 4/10nths - yes - and he is a serious pro, and I know for a fact that you are no hack on a bike either - not the point - the point is to look at average club times on the 250cc bike and see if the Blast is capable of doing that. I do not see a reason for that answer to be no, and in fact think a yes is the proper answer. Using the times of an average joe club racer answers the question a lot more honestly than pointing out what serious racers have done when handed a 250cc - even I am impressed with those times of the club racers. I like the Sears Point track - way closer to home, besides my friends Terry P. and Fireman Jim have their shop there and I look forward to dynoing my finished bike there as well. EZ | ||
| Ezblast |
A real fact of the matter is this - to increase the Ninja's bottom end - in the new Ninja's with 17" tires - they actually sacrificed the top end - so now the top speed is listed as 93 and recorded at 91 mph, where as the Blast was recorded at 96 and listed at 95 mph. that and the larger torque numbers, and lighter weight should make the Blast more than qualified to beat the Ninja 250cc. EBR/Hero's 250cc - maybe not since it is said to produce the same numbers and be 50lbs lighter - we'll see, and first they would have to import that single into the USA, which a lot of people are waiting on to be made and sold still - lol EZ | ||
| Blasted77 |
"Fwiw: if you're at a track day on a Blast and you're the slowest rider out there, it's not the Blasts fault! Trust me on this one!" Well this is with stock foot pegs? I can almost use the whole tire on stock pegs, but there is about 1/3" remaining. Not investing a dime until a club actually says I can race a Blast with a class that I feel is safe, (ie not getting lapped on the second lap). I have emailed two clubs about running with the 250's but no response. I just don't want to be put in with sv650's just because I have "500cc's". I guess I can still do a track day with out investing anything. I do need to pop it on the dyno first though because the top end is very flat. Max power feels like its at 5000 rpm (I have a tach). It's used, so I want to verify the jetting. Track day next month... maybe .... we'll see. Also, I seriously don't want to start any arguments about this. Thanks. |
