| Author | Message | ||
     Vinksam |
So I am new to the Buell community. I have owned motorcycles in the past, but never a Buell. I have a 2002 Buell blast that has 1200 miles on it. It sat for a number of years inside heated storage, but it was left with fuel in it. I am having trouble getting it to start when cold. It will start fine when it has been warmed up, but when it is cold it take forever to start. It helps if you roll on and off the throttle and will fire when the throttle is fully closed. Here is what I know. After the bike starts it runs on high idle for a couple of minutes and then drops down like it should. This makes me think the auto enricher is working correctly. I have replaced the jets, 175/45. I also replaced the carb boot. All the circuits seem to be clean in the carb and it has me very stumped. Should I pull the carb and take it apart to soak it overnight? If anyone has any input I would love to hear it. It is really nice out and I want to be able to go for a long ride and not have to sit in a parking lot for 2 minutes cranking it over. Thank god I have a full face to hide my embarrassment. | ||
| Ezblast |
Have you turned the air screw from flat bottom 2 to 2 1/2 turns out? EZ | ||
| Johneblast |
Welcome Vinksam, With that low of mileage it may not have been serviced yet, and usually, and I say that loosely, the spacer that is between the primary adjuster and it's lock nut is removed at 1000mi service. It commonly is forgotten even by the shop, to be taken off in order to adjust the primary. If the primary is too tight, the idle will lug and possibly die. It sounds like the bike is ready to roll otherwise. I would not advise taking the carb off to clean it. It may also be the petcock or a pinched breather tube. Just some things to check out if you haven't already. Happy trails. | ||
| Vinksam |
Thanks guys, Ez...the A/F mixture screw is set at 2 turns out right now. It does not backfire when engine braking and does not stall out when idling for extended periods of time. So due to that I think that it is set correctly, The primary has not been serviced yet. That was my next project, and it is making lots of noise so I know its not too tight. The petcock seems to be functioning properly, and i blew through the breather tube and it was not restricted. I have been trying to figure this out for a couple of weeks. I am ready to bring it into the dealer, but I don't know that they can do anything different than I have. When I called them, they said make sure the primary is clean and they recommended pulling it apart and soaking it overnight and then blowing everything out with air. They offered to pull the carb apart and reset the TPS and install back on the bike for 75 dollars, so if that fixes it, its not worth my time to rip it apart. Does anyone know what the vacuum values should be on a cold idle and a warm idle for the carb? I would like to test that to make sure that my boot isn't leaking and to make sure I don't have any leaks around the intake manifold. Typically are dealers good at diagnosing and fixing problems like this, or are they all just taking a shot in the dark? Thanks again for your input. Any more is greatly valued, and I will keep you posted on any progress made. | ||
| Ezblast |
It could also be making noise from being too tight and the shoe is worn out - more likely cause - I got a Blast for 500 bucks because of that - lol EZ | ||
| Vinksam |
Would that really cause it to start hard? It cranks over just fine and I can let the clutch out as soon as it starts and it won't stall. | ||
| Vinksam |
You are starting to scare me. Just tell me its a blown fuse or something simple and I will be happy. If it was winter I wouldn't care...but I just want to ride it happily because the weather is nice. I would rather not be wrenching on it! | ||
| M2nc |
We have the same problem on Ulywife's Blast. I do not have an answer but am interested in other's suggestions. Her Blast starts fine as long as you ride it regularly, even cold. If the bike sits a month or longer, the bike cranks and cranks before finally hitting. Then you have to hold the throttle partially open to keep the rpms up so it survives the coughing the bike does cold. Once warm, the bike runs great. One thing I did notice is if the battery is low on charge, the bike is harder to start. Now if the bike has not been ridden in a while, I charge it the night before the ride. It helps but I still wish the bike had a manual choke. | ||
| Ezblast |
Vink - very rarely is the primary too loose, but it is worth checking - the shoe is an easy replacement, just a tad time consuming - lol - a tight primary robs power and makes it hard to start, and lowers the idle due to chain tension so it acts like it wants to stall, and will make a clutch adjustment too tight as well. EZ | ||
| Vinksam |
I will certainly check it since I have to take the spacer out. I do not think this is the culprit though. It goes well over 90 mph and from what i read it wont if its too tight. | ||
| Ezblast |
could be right - make sure the carb intake gasket isn't blocking - even partially - the vacuum inlet hole, also that boot is correctly mounted - easy to mess up - done it, that plug is good, and wire is good. That both grounds are tight and in good condition. How old the battery? EZ | ||
| Vinksam |
The battery was replaced about 3 weeks ago. I don't believe that is an issue. I know where the ground is off the battery, but where is the second ground? I will take that off and clean it up as well. Should I have 12 volts running to the auto enricher all the time? When the bike isn't running and I pull the plug i have around 9 volts from the ground to the power in the plug, but if i run from the B plus on the plug to ground i get 12 volts. From the diagram in the manual it shows that the ground is controlled by the ignition control module. So I am thinking that the ground will only close when the bike is running making it 12 volts. Please let me know if I'm wrong. | ||
| Ezblast |
There is a front ground - left side by isolator. Enrichner should turn off in about 10 minutes. Starting cold problem - check plug - always number one - check wire - hair line splits are fine warmed up, but make for a hard start as the juice jumps the break cold, inspect connection on both sides - test coil. EZ | ||
| Vinksam |
Thanks EZ, How do I test the coil? | ||
| Ezblast |
pgs 7-23,7-24 of the manual. EZ (Message edited by ezblast on June 06, 2011) | ||
| Vinksam |
Well the coil and wire tested out just fine. I cleaned the grounds and everything seems to be fine. The only thing I can think of is that something is lodged in the carb still. I don't want to pull the tps off the carb and have to reset it so I think I am going to bring it into the dealer to have the carb stripped and soaked. If anyone has an opinion otherwise let me know. | ||
| Ezblast |
Why not just run 3 ounces of Seafoam through a fresh tank of hi octaine and then decide. EZ | ||
| Vinksam |
Well out of my frustration I brought my bike into the shop. It started hard this morning because it was about 70 out but after work it was about 95 and sitting in the sun all day so it started right up. The dealer said it sounded like something still in the carb so they are going to soak it for 24 hours and then adjust the TPS and A/F mixture. I will let you know what comes of it. | ||
| Ezblast |
What gas are you using, what grade? They are just going to do what I suggested - but ok - sigh... EZ | ||
| Vinksam |
I am using 93 octane. It is the highest octane I can get here in Michigan without going to torco fuel. The dealer said they soaked the carb and when I talked with them they were putting it back on and were going to put a set of vacuum gauges on it to make sure the intake was not leaking anywhere. | ||
| Ezblast |
Sounds good - which dealer? - EZ | ||
| Cgent |
I sincerely hope you get this sorted out and find the problem so you can enjoy the bike. I'm amazed though that you refer to 70 F. as a "cold start" ... 35 F. is a "cold start" ... 70 F. is about normal here in the mid-west  My BLAST! starts fine down to around 35 F. ... then it's too cold to ride anyway ...  | ||
| Swampy |
Vinksam, I am in Lansing, if the dealer doesn't get you right, I can arrange a time to look at it, I haven't been to Kazoo for a few months. | ||
| Vinksam |
Thanks Swampy, PM sent | ||
| Vinksam |
The problem still hasn't been solved. I am starting to get a bit frustrated after I had the bike in the shop for a week. The auto enrichner was replaced and I am not sure that they soaked the carb like they said they did. I am starting to think the auto enrichner circuit has a plug in it. Any more ideas?? | ||
| Ezblast |
Did they reset the TPS? EZ | ||
| Vinksam |
They did not reset the TPS. I brought it back to them last night and worked with the mechanic on it. We adjusted the float level and ran the air fuel mixture screw out half a turn and that helped it run smoother but once again when I went to start it this morning it just cranked over. Would the TPS cause these symptoms?? | ||
| Ezblast |
One way to find out - completely unplug the carb electronics the night before, and try to start it in the morning. When started you'll have to play with the throttle the first few minutes to keep it running, and your gas mileage will go down a few gpms, it defaults to the WOT curve. If it starts easily - then it is the carb electronics, and yes then resetting the TPS would be advised. If it is still difficult to start, then we know it is not the carb we should be looking at, and we can start trouble shooting elsewhere. EZ | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
" they recommended pulling it apart and soaking it overnight and then blowing everything out with air"That generally means : we have no idea whats wrong and we hope that fixes it.  Pilot/slow jet generally gets clogged from sitting, but you replaced that. There really isnt all that much that can go wrong with a Blast carb that "a good cleaning" is going to fix. Do you have good spark? Have you checked the LED light on the module? How's the spark plug? If its original, replace it. Concur with unplugging the TPS when cold and when hot. See if that changes any of the symptoms. I wouldnt say it points directly at a maladjusted TPS, but it will tell you something. Does rolling on and then off the throttle help while you're starting it or is it just the act of doing it regardless if you're cranking the engine over. If spark is okay (including timing which at this point should be checked, especially if the TPS is a concern) then hard starting is probably being caused by too rich or lean. If its stone cold then its probably too lean. You can remove the airbox and make an artificial choke by covering the carb inlet with your hand. You can always use starting fluid to see if it starts. That will tell you if it will actually start and something else isnt going on. And there always a compression check. Low compression can really make an engine hard to start, especially when cold. Spark, fuel, compression..... | ||
| Vinksam |
Well here is the update. I pulled the carb apart Friday night and took everything out of it. I soaked it in a carb soaking solution that I bought at the local parts store. It sat for 24 hours. I blew it off with air and put it back together. It starts great now. Of course I created another problem by doing this. As soon as you touch the gas it stalls. It idles fine but will not run with any throttle at all. I noticed that I have a tiny rubber O-ring left over after putting everything together. I can not find out where it goes from the diagram in the manual. I also put the primary jet back to 170. If anyone has any ideas of where this O-ring goes or why now it wont run with throttle I am all ears. |
