| Author | Message | ||
     Ezblast |
The Blast frame was suposed to be stiffer/stronger than the tube frames, yet they were never used for racing - why? Wheel size - a custom swing arm could have been used for that portion - I've heard that perhaps the neck is the true week point - what say you? Howd she feel for you on a track day? Gto Thump?! Just Blasting on the Dark side! EZ  | ||
| Spooky |
Tire size is the week point. | ||
| Spooky |
one other thing. Been working on switching out the front forks and triple tree. I looking at using XB9s low forks and a XB9r triple tree. The low forks are shorter that the stock Blast forks, so the steering shouldn't be to slow. | ||
| Ezblast |
Tire size is just a cut and weld away from a custom swingarm for either larger 16 or full to 17. How much shorter is the forks and how hard is it to adapt the tripple tree - cool then you could run the R fairing as well - lol - nice thinking - yeah - changing out the forks as well is probably the smarter way to go - how much will this affect your trail, etc. - will you now be at 23 deg. - hmmm - it sounds like a tight combination  - going to run the XB wheels as well? - Got Thump?! Just Blasting on the Dark side! EZ | ||
| Spooky |
Forks are only about 1/2 inch shorter then the stock Blast legs. You will need to weld 4 mounting blocks to the neck if you want to use the stock R fairing mount or you could have someone weld you a tube mount like most Jap bikes run and a simple mounting block welded to the neck. Trojan Horse sells a kit that has that has new lower legs that let you run tube frame wheels. It's pricey but nice. You might be able to use the lower fork legs from an X1. If I get a chance to talk to somebody I know that was on the factory race team, I'll find out what they where running, Because the XB had aftermarket wheels and a brake rotor like the tube frame bikes. The XB triple tree might work, but there is one problem. The XB has sealed bearings in the neck unlike the blast that has taper non sealed. The offset of the forks to the steering stem is not the best either. So best bet would be to get Banke to make a new set of triple trees with a 26mm offset. The swing arm would be easy since we already know what needs to be done to run a tube frame wheel. Running a tube frame wheel gives you the chose to run different size rear tires. This will help with the Bikes steering a lot also. Going with the XB rear wheel might be more of a problem. Your rake will stay the same. The only way to change your rake is to cut your neck off and weld it back on at the deg. you want. Trail might change a little. In the end you should end up with a Blast that will be a sweet little bike. The only reason I've spent much time checking up on all of this is because My 600 motor is almost ready to go. I'm just waiting on my head. Eric  | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
From what I've read (and it makes sense)that bigger wheels on the Blast will only corrupt handling and since the Blast is already 3" longer than the XB adding length to the swingarm will only make it react even slower! A better solution would be to make the rims wider (there are tires available),would take less cut & weld to the swingarm, and not add any length to the bike. Don't really need to add a chain/belt adjuster,because as long as the chain/belt length is correct, you only need an idler pulley/chain tensioner.It would still slow the handling though. Just my opinion, and as many who post here,I've thought a lot about wheel, frame & fork options! PS It might be cheaper to mount a Blast engine in an XB frame and it would weigh the same!! | ||
| Ezblast |
Wouldn't a custom swing arm help keep the dimensions simular so you wouldn't have to go for extra length the way Cross Roads did by just welding on an axle adjuster to the end, and switching out gears - it was S1 wheels I think - the PMs - the swing arm could be made for wider/larger wheel - they used M2 front forks - the XBL forks would be ideal because the lack of length would make up for the increased tire height keeping handling dimensions up front simular - I speculate this - if anyone knows different nows the time! ... lol - the real trick is still the rear end - spooky sounds like he has a great idea for keeping the front end handling well - and yea - the XB fairing could be lived without -there are alot of different options there - lol - Banke for the Tripple Trees - eh? - filed - lol Got Thump?! Just Blasting on the Dark side! EZ | ||
| Spooky |
Crossroads used just the stock Blast forks and triple tree. S1,S2,S3,M2,X1 and PM wheels will all work. | ||
| Ezblast |
Yeah - besides the seat, exhaust, and chain conversion - its really a billboard for their bolt ons, and the stuff we are really intrested in - chain conversion kit, upgraded forks and rear suspension,less expensive rear sets, that custom exhaust - lol basically all the stuff they showed and didn't produce - lol - yeah it sounds like your on the right track - that Works shock is height adjustable? - how much? Got Thump?! Just Blasting on the Dark side! EZ | ||
| Spooky |
The Works shock is not height adjustable. Wasn't someone else making a shock for the Blast. | ||
| Spooky |
Erik, the XB sucks as a race bike. Wheel base is to short and the rake needs to be changed. This is not my personal opinion, this came from someone and I can't mention any names here. The best handling and the fastest bikes racing run: 55" wheel Base 25 to 26.5 deg. rake The old tube frame race bikes are turning faster lap times then the XB's with the same motor. | ||
| Ezblast |
Penski is the brand that comes to the top of my mind when I was inquiring of what was available several shops said they could all do custom units - around 1,200 last time I checked a year and a half back - the shops I checked are in the links section, most want a Blast stock shock for matching up mounting points, height, and such. Traxton, and a few others - perhaps Works would modify their shock to be able to incorporate that feature also - they are a pretty sharp group. Got Thump?! Just Blasting on the Dark side! EZ | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
Eric, I can tell by most of your posts that you do your homework! So the Blast already has the ideal wheelbase & rake (that explains to me why you'd go to all that trouble), and if you modify the swingarm (as ez stated) without lenghtening it that would be ideal! | ||
| Spooky |
Erik, thank you. I spent a lot of time down at Tilley's with a tape measure getting some of the strangest looks and Brian telling me to just buy the damn bike. I just looked at him like why the hell do I need one. I took an XB9R out for a test ride. The bike had slow steering compared to my Blast. One of the reasons is the size of the rear tire. Anything larger than a 170 and the steering becomes slow. A good size to run on a Blast with 17" wheels would be a 160 dunlop 208. One thing most people don't realize different tires of the same size handle different. A friend of mine has a Kawasaki ZR-7 that came stock with dunlop 205. The bike was a hog in turns. Next came dunlop 207 and the bike was a lot better in the turns. Now he is running dunlop 208 and the bike is all together different now. At slow speeds the steering is twitchy which is a good thing as long as you know what your doing. At high speeds the bike rides like it is on rails. so choosing the right tire has a lot to do with the handling of the bike also. I've had the front end washout a few times over the summer do to all my weight being over the front end of the bike. Why did it wash out? One reason is the tire contact patch (I'm still running the stock wheels at this time. Could I have saved it. Yes and no, due to the limited seat height of the Blast and my rearsets I wasen't able to move around enough to get to my rear brake in time. So another thing I looking at doing to my Blast is putting a new tail section that will move me up and back about 2"-3". Which means molding an extension to my gas tank cover. Most of this will happen some time next winter. One other thing that was looked at was moving the shock 1" forward(top and bottom) to help stay in the 55" wheel base. Eric | ||
| Sarodude |
Man, what's this fixation with bigger wheels & tires? You don't need to increase the size of rubber unless you're overheating what you currently have. Does anyone here 1) check tire temps with a pyrometer and / or 2) ride hard enough to overcook the stock sized stuff? Does anyone here even KNOW where their tires are happiest living WRT temps? The Blast can live with small wheels / tires / brakes because it doesn't have mega HP or weight to have to deal with. Each component's lack of demand contributes to all the other components' tolerance for downsizing - which is what makes the silly little bike so damned nimble. Example: Less HP means lower speeds - which means smaller (lighter!) brakes - which contributes to less rotating and unsprung mass - with the reduction of those things being GOOD for handling. Address whatever limits the bike NOW. After you have your 55 hp Blast and you find you're making your rubber greasy by overcooking it, then MAYBE you need to address tires / wheels. Maybe after that, you'll find that the brakes aren't up to snuff. Who knows. If you're after ratio changes find a way to do it staying within the parameters of the stock sizes. Mod the swingarm so it adjusts within +/- an inch (?) of the current wheelbase. Try to keep as much of the bike as it was designed - 'cause I suspect the folks at Buell know what they're doing better than we do. Just because you CAN bolt up something bigger / more bad-ass doesn't mean it's gonna help you. -Saro | ||
| Spooky |
Well I ride hard enough. | ||
| Ezblast |
True Saro - however, the other contributing factor is simply that we are dealing with very basic parts and wish to upgrade for adjustability, and higher speed safety - thus the big hard look at suspension mods, with the chain drive a personal choice - I really think that is where Spooky is coming from - your rear wheel chattering as you do a sweeper is not comforting at 90 mph. As we upgrade the motor to increase the envelope, so must one start looking at other parts to assist the bike in safely negotiating that power to the road in the areas where it would help. Is it nescessary - maybe - maybe not, however, it is in that spirit that such endevors are being researched by all of us - I'd expect the XB forks to be very superior to ours and that adjustability would be greatly welcomed and probably would help you keep a very simuller geometry to stock, as well as an adjustable rear shock to help with higher speed play. Every track day I've ever heard of on a Blast consists of the rear end dancing and jittering - something I've experienced also on some rather high speed sweepers along the coast - thats why I'll probably at least pick up the Works shock in the near future. Got Thump?! Just Blasting on the Dark side! EZ | ||
| Sarodude |
Spook- Do you know if you're just exceeding your tire's available grip or if you're overcooking the rubber? If you're just exceeding the grip that compound has to offer (BTW, what rubber are you running?) then you likely need a different compound. If you're actually overheating the tire (again, something best measured) then and only then does size matter. Size affects the tire's ability to handle heat. Too big and not only does your bike become harder to turn, but you may not get the rubber up to appropriate temps and you'll actually LOSE grip. I'm not trying to be an ass here. I'm not saying your ride like a lilly livered sissy. I'm just suggesting that your quest for grip may be better served in some other way. -Saro | ||
| Ezblast |
We never thought you where - true - as both of you have stated - tires have a lot to do with it and there just are'nt a lot of choices out there and a premium tire isn't there at all. So people look at different ways to compensate, or improve, or change so that a selection is either not needed - bettering the suspension, or an improvement of the selection by switching to a custom swingarm and going with a larger wheel/tire combo where there is selection, or even a combination of both. One can only work with what one is given, from there creativity takes over and experimentation begins. Got Thump?! Just Blasting on the Dark side! EZ | ||
| Sarodude |
EZ (and everyone)- You mentioned the Works shock. Has anyone figured out some alternative to that WRT the rear suspension? The cheap bastard in me wonders what can be done either with some working of the stock unit or by careful application of a boneyard part for another bike. Definitely not enough info there. The Works shock sure does seem nice, though... -Saro | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
Saro-apology not needed-Its why I love Badweb! Discussions about our favourite obsession and its modification regardless of cost or sensibility! Yeah, the big wheel issue just comes down to having more tire choices. A few years ago, it was nothing but 16" sportbike tires, now its all 17" (before that 18"!)! There has to be a bike (or ?) out there using the same (or close) rear shock (maybe using 2 or w/different springs).We need someone with spec info & a lot of parts catalogues to find out.I find it hard to believe that it is a completely unique unit. | ||
| Ezblast |
Concur | ||
| Spooky |
Saro, I'm running the Pirelli MT75 and I'm exceeding the tires available grip. I've played around with the air presser to were there is only a 4lb increase in the air presser once the tires are heated up. 4lbs or 10% is the rule of thumb to go by. I've have not had any problems with the rear sliding, except when the sprocket touches the road and that doesn't happen to often. I have the Crossroad handle bars and Banke rearsets. Both have their share in helping add rider weight to the front of the bike. The more weight you add to the front of the bike the harder it is for the tire to grip with its limited contact patch. Sure I could drop the air presser in the front but then you run into the chance of the bead breaking loose. I have the Works springs in the front I've played around with different preload and fork oils. The suspension is dialed in. One other thing and this is for everyone: stock fork oil is 10 weight. Eric | ||
| Spooky |
Saro, one other thing. I'm going to be nice about this. It's my bike, I payed for it, and I'm the one riding it. I will do what ever I want to. Eric | ||
| Sarodude |
Spooky- I'm a firm believer that you don't get something for nothing. From anecdotal evidence, it seems that the Pirellis last longer than the Dunlops. To me, that also says that you're likely giving up grip to the Dunlops (unless the Pirelli folk are rewriting physics books). I haven't put a durometer (would you believe I actually have one?) to either tire hot or cold but it would seem that the Dunlop is a somewhat softer and stickier tire. Did you go with the Pirelli for longevity, "feel", price, or ??? If this is gonna turn into a tire ThREAD (HA!) maybe we should move the discussion to the appropriate area... -Saro | ||
| Spooky |
I went with the Pirelli because they stick better and they are softer then the Dunlops. | ||
| Mmelvis |
I will be trying out the Pirelli tires this weekend on the track. They feel very different compared to the Dunlops. Going into turns feels quicker. edited by mmelvis on February 18, 2004 | ||
| Ezblast |
Man I wish the Pirrelli lasted as long as the stockers - still - even at a 3/4 life expectancy I save money over the stocker (- yea they want that much more for them)and have a better tire for the road. The Avons last a bit longer than the stocker tire, almost the same price - a little less, and are considered pretty sticky when heated up - takes a few miles of riding though. I need my tires sticky from the go though - its always wet and cold in ole SF. John - what track will you be riding on? What part of Florida do you live in? - lived in Daytona myself for 12 years after leaving the Navy in Jacksonville, Fl..let us know how your track day goes and enjoy the ride! Got Thump?! Just Blasting on the Dark side! EZ | ||
| Sarodude |
Wow- I was seriously misguided regarding the Pirellis. I can't help shaking the thought that they were being bought for mileage purposes. Oh, well... -Saro someone ought to tell Blake that the "Contact Patch Debate" was narrowly averted | ||
| Mmelvis |
EZ, will be riding at Jennings GP this weekend up in Jennings Florida. The track is a few miles south of the Georgia border. I live down in Sarasota, it is about a 5 hour trip up there. Also will be taking a track school to get my track times better than my last trip up. I will follow up in the tire section to let you know how the Pirellis performed for me. |
