| Author | Message | ||
     Ezblast |
LOL - its not bad at all - brings the 2001 and up to 2000 levels and the 2000 probably doesn't really vibrate any more because of its extra heim joint - lol - which is the original cause of more vibration - lol EZ | ||
| Robi |
yes. Snubber washer. That's what I meant. | ||
| Swampy |
You probably won't need one. The only thing it will do is if you ride it too long with a bad isolator the washer will warp, and if it does you can send it to me and I will straighten it and proptly return it to you to reuse. Robi, promise me, some day this summer? | ||
| Robi |
Swampy ? I got a new isolator. What did you want to me to promise? I was planning on putting the new isolator on today. However, I need some opinions on whether this is a bad part. This is the first motor mount of any type I've ever dealt with, so I don't know if this is normal. Additionally, for some reason I cannot take good pictures of things close up. Below, are some pictures of the isolator I just got. I was showing my better half what the part did, and was explaining how it absorbs vibrations, yada yada yada. When I squeezed it, to show that it was rubber, I noticed cracking and black paint flaking off. I notice some cracking all around, but most prominently in one spot. Oddly enough, there is an yellow dab of paint placed in that spot. If this part is defective, could they have known it, thus marking it? I hope you can see this from the pictures. If you want me to try to take better ones I will. (I tried to take some more, but still, they sort of suck). Whoever has admin rights, feel free to delete what ever pictures you want. I know it might be annoying, especially if you have a slow connection, but I figured the more pictures posted, the better chance someone can spot what I?m talking about (especially when they are crappy photos).   (Message edited by gearheaderiko on November 28, 2008) | ||
| Ezblast |
Go back and get another - I wouldn't trust it - even if it was ok - that crack is not what you want to see in something new you paid money for. EZ | ||
| Robi |
EZ - should I bring up the yellow paint? The bag it came in was not sealed. Most parts I've gotten (that come in plastic bags) have been sealed. Is this something to be suspicious about? Now that the paranoid gears are running in my head, I wonder if they grabbed the easiest available part since I called customer service. | ||
| Buuueller |
I doubt this is the case but paint dobs are put on salvaged parts. It may have been painted buy the salvage yard to cover the cracking. Again, I doubt it because some new parts get paint marks too, but crazier things have happened. | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
No, that doesnt look good  Paint will flake off because its painted rubber, but that crack doesnt look good. Sometimes rubber mounts will have small cracks that are harmless, but that looks (from the pictures) like a break starting to go all the way through. Maybe the last person that bought it returned it for the very same reason. Its also not completely inconceivable that its a used part (and made to look new-but I wouldnt accuse the dealer of that though-bad pr). I have on more than one occasion bought a part and opened the box to find it used, sometimes barely, sometimes old used. I'd just tell the dealer I wasnt comfortable installing a part with (what looks like to us) a big tear in it. Thats the twin mount? | ||
| Ezblast |
uhuh. EZ | ||
| Swampy |
Using the last picture as reference, the bottom of the isolator does not look like any of the isolators I have installed before. The bottom is flared out. Looks like a different part, New and improved? If it is a Big Twin isolator those are supposed to be more expensive and longer wearing. | ||
| Swampy |
A couple of bad ones, they don't have the flare on the bottom.  I'm saving them up and will try and sling shot them across Lake Michigan and see if I can hit Milwaukee. | ||
| Ezblast |
I have a couple of those as well - yes - that above groups of pictures that shows a new style big twin/Buell isolator already cracked - I know too well - I also have received isolators with cracks already in them and I reject them just as a matter of course, and go on to the next - I always order two, one for the other bike - lol- I'm pretty hard on them. So far the old style is holding up well in the 2000 and the heavy duty twin one is doing fine in the other bike s well - as of today after 167 miles of bumpy back roads. EZ | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
LOL! Swampy, I was wondering how you kept your sanity through the long Siberian winter! | ||
| Robi |
I picked up another mount, and compared them at the store with the clerk. There is not much difference. Both have the yellow dob, both plastic bags were unsealed, but had flaking black paint. When looking for the rubber cracking, the two seemed to behave so similarly, it's almost as if the cracks vanished like an optical illusion, as if my mind erased them from view as now being insignificant. I ended up going with the new one, but I made the decision by feeling the contours of the edges. The previous one seemed to have a dip along the top edge, the new one didn't. So it seems these mounts come painted with black paint, and the cracking I thought I saw might just be the normal behavior of the mount rubber, and I over reacted. OR the 2nd mount was bad too. I'll put it on, see what happens. Will keep you all posted. Hopefully I can ride the bike again by Sunday. | ||
| Robi |
EZ - flared side up or down? | ||
| Ezblast |
According to your picture - yellow side up. EZ | ||
| Buuueller |
FYI, I received a new bolt from the dealer for the right side (while facing the bike) of the front mount. Turns out its only a grade 5 bolt. You would think grade 8 would be in order. They double checked against an 09 model and it had the same part number. They also told me that the old bolt could only be extracted by laser at a machine shop. Any one have any experience of cost with this? Any other methods of extractions proven without head removal? If it has to go to a machine shop, anyone have objections to tapping that bolt hole to the larger size of the other mount bolt? | ||
| Swampy |
Robi, the bad mounts pictured above are pointed in the correct direction, up as the weight of the engine pulls the mout down. Buueller, are you talking about the bolt that holds the ground strap to the "DO NOT ROMOVE" bracket?....or the bolts that hold the "DO NOT REMOVE" bracket to the head? If so those bolts are special 7/16 diameter bolts, they should come with a yellow dabb of some sort of locking substance. New washers are in order, as are following the installation instructions exactly. If you have broken off the bolts in the head, they drill out fairly easily(Be careful to drill straight, and do not force the easyout). I have had good luck by lifting the front of the bike off the ground by the handle bars, removing the front wheel and forks to get them out of the way to get some direct room to work on the area. Make sure the holes in the cylinder head are in good shape and tight(the bolt should hold securely when screwed in finger tight, not wobble at all) | ||
| Buuueller |
Yeah Swampy, it is the 7/16 bolt. I just thought it should have been a grade 8. I may cut a grade 8 to the correct length (cant buy one at the correct length) and try that. So when you used an easy out did it require heating? I appreciate the help. | ||
| Swampy |
The ONLY bolt you should use is the factory bolt with a new hardened factory flat washer. I found that the hole in the head is too large and that did not hold the brackt to the head tight enough. That was on two 2001 Blasts. What caused it? I don't know, maybe a manufacturing problem, maybe riding too long on a bad isolator, maybe a mechanic unknowingly checking the tightness of the bolt by putting a wrench on it...I just don't know what caused the problem originally. The solution to the problem was to rebuild the holes using Helicoils. That is why I pulled the front tire and forks. The Helicoil length is not long enough to do the entire length of the hole in the head so I pre-cut a helicoil calculating the length of an uncut one (the one that would be on the outboard end of the hole)and cutting the inboard one so that when it was seated the full length Helicoil would just be flush with the outside of the hole. That, is what it took to fix the "DO NOT REMOVE" bracket bolt breaking problem for me. I have the tool, and will loan it out to anybody that asks as long as they return it to me. As far as removing the broken portion from the head I found that once I drilled through it with the proper size drill it came out really easily. I did not have to use heat, if it did not want to come out easily I would recommend using heat as there is Red Loctite(Permenant) used during the installation. I used Red Loctite High Temp, High Strength to install the Helicoils and Red High Strength Loctite to install the bolts. There are tons of posts in the archives covering this issue. | ||
| Buuueller |
Yeah, Ive read all or at least most of it (new washers, dash of oil, torque/loosen/retorque). Theres conflicting arguments on the use of the easy out but I definitely understand how they can be used incorrectly. Looks like Im going to give it a try seeing that you and a few others had good results with it. If nothing else, I feel more confident drilling out a grade 5 than a grade 8 at least. Thanks again. | ||
| Reuel |
A grade 8 bolt will last approximately 750 miles if you ride gently. Grade 5 will last a few thousand. I have 22K on the Buell specific bolt. EZ-Out got my previously broken one out easily. | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
Harder bolts (as Reuel implied) are not always better. My experience with vibration problems on older Harleys taught me that just installing a super hard bolt may not fix the problem. Sometimes just the right grade works. It might be so in this case. (I havent compiled a comprehensive list of the bolt changes through the years. Maybe its time. If somebody already has that info they could post it in the "Blast changes through the years" thread) | ||
| Buuueller |
Ah, I see. The harder bolt might not provide the flex to handle the vibration. Makes sense. It not like they are torqued that much. | ||
| Ezblast |
The side bolts breaking is very rare - though I did upgrade mine to grade 8 - and all that hardware is replace with each isolator change - hopefully this one is the last for a while - Erik could well be right about the flex thing - we'll see - the problem - beside the isolator tearing - either collapsing or horizontal ripping - has been the middle bolt breaking - more noticeable in the twin section - its now 8.8 grade for Blasts. EZ | ||
| Robi |
Step 3, page 2-66 of service manual says to raise motorcycle until front suspension is unloaded. Step 4 is support motor w/ jack (as discussed earlier, it is not necessary to remove the muffler). I don't have a front stand. Is it possible to change the isolator just by jacking the bike up under the muffler? My guess is no, but want to see if anyone has any thoughts, or has done this w/o the front stand. | ||
| Swampy |
I have done isolators with out raising the front of the bike off the ground. I have done it flat on the ground and used a jack under the muffler. Oh yeah, the wife that tried to poison me last night just asked what you guys were doing today, when I responded "typing on the internet" she said "tell them they ought to get a job" I am taking collections... | ||
| Robi |
Thanks Swampy. I thought I was going to have to dish out some cash for a front stand. I am going to try it with just the jack. I can always get the stand later if I have problems. | ||
| Reuel |
Ok, so I did it wrong! Next time I'll read the instructions. I did what Swampy did, except I put the jack under the engine. My unstock muffler was too low to get my bottle jack under it. Swampy, tell your wife that I just got a job. I start Monday.  I quit the Air Force Reserves because they continued to give me the runaround on advancement. Long story, but it involves broken promises, and I'm really close to sending all the details to the IG. The Navy is willing to take me back if I go Reserves first. I was going to go straight active duty, but see above. Damn! That was a heck of a digression! My isolator was bottomed out when I pulled it out. At first I thought I got the wrong part because of it. (Message edited by reuel on November 29, 2008) | ||
| Ezblast |
Concur - use the jack. EZ |
