| Author | Message | ||
     Reuel |
That spacer is hard as hell to keep centered when the bearing lets loose and the spacer tears up the metal up to the inner edge of the outer race! | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
A suitable replacement could be used, but you'll need the exact dimensions (length anyway). I dont have any wheels apart to measure. | ||
| Themagster |
Can anyone explain how the spacer works? Since the bearings sits against a metal backing plate on the hub anyway, what does the spacer prevent? I'm definitely no engineer, but I can only guess that without the spacer in place, is the cause for my early life bearing failure. | ||
| Berkshire |
The bearings OUTER race sits against the back side of the recess in the wheel, but the spacers between the bearing and the swingarm and brake bracket seat against the bearings INNER race, so if you don't have that inner spacer, then when you torque that big nut on the end of the axle, what you're doing is squeezing the ends of the swingarm together - the only thing stopping it is the little balls in the bearing, as they are the link between the inner & outer races - but they're not made to take a load in that direction (thrust, as opposed to radial). So it's trying to break the bearings apart and push the inner races into the middle of the wheel - not good - definitely a bearing killer! Together, the inner spacer, the bearing inner races, the outer spacers, and the brake bracket all act as a continuous "sleeve" of solid metal around the axle, all the way from one side of the swingarm to the other. When you tighten the axle nut, you're compressing the segments of this sleeve - but being solid metal, they don't compress - together they maintain the correct distance between the swingarm ends. The middle segment of that "sleeve", the inner spacer, also maintains the proper distance between the two bearing inner races. The distance between the bearing outer races is set by the recesses in the wheel, which should be the same distance apart as the length of the inner spacer. The ID and OD of the sleeve should be similar to the ID & OD of the inner bearing race, though the OD could be a bit bigger. | ||
| Themagster |
Berkshire, I could not have gotten a better explanation if I had a book. Thanks, and I think I understand the dynamics of how those spacers are used now. I know now why that bearing failed early. In fact, I am lucky I was able to get the mileage I got before it failed. Again, this is why it's better to perform the maintenance on the bike yourself if your capable. | ||
| Robi |
Very appropriate timing for this discussion. Put the new bearing in with the JB Weld. It set for 24+ hours. Went to put the wheel back on . . . LESSON LEARNED . . . the inner spacer was left out of the wheel. So, I'm guessing I have to tap the left side (caliper side) bearing out, put the spacer in, and go from there. Questions: 1. Is it recommended to remove the rotor? 2. The tool substitute of using the axle, washers, spacer, and nut to place the new bearing in --- will this method place undue pressure on the bearing I just set in JB Weld? In other words, do I risk messing with the integrity of the JB Weld? Bright side - A: I had ordered 2 new bearings and was going to return one. Now I don't have to make that extra trip. Bright side - B: lesson learned. Ugly side: I was really looking forward to riding. (Message edited by robi on July 26, 2008) BTW: I'll measure the inner spacer tomorrow since it's out. (Message edited by robi on July 26, 2008) | ||
| Reuel |
Um, oops! I almost forgot my spacer when I brought mine down to the local shop to have the bearings changed. Maybe the motorcycle Gods are trying to tell you to fork out $200 for a new wheel.  Just a thought. | ||
| Robi |
That might be the case. I thought someone mentioned a new wheel around $60. Did I get that wrong? Or is $60 to $200 the price range? | ||
| Ezblast |
About 160 - remove the rotor, use new bolts - from factory should have locktite on them, if store - then grade 8 and red locktite. EZ | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
Rotor removal is not necessary. Yes, use the same axle spacer combo to install bearing and spacer (save old bearings). You shouldn't compromise the JB weld if you dont pound on it. Tight is tight. Used wheels are about $60+. New $160 (when ordered from the right place). If the old wheel doesnt work out, please let us know. Someone here might be interested in it! | ||
| Robi |
Sounds good. Thank you. PS. That JB Weld is awesome. Just fixed a lamp shade with broken framing. | ||
| Swampy |
Yes it is, a longs long time ago, very far away.... | ||
| Robi |
How hard should it be to tap the bearing out (the old on the caliper side, opposite the one w/ JB Weld)? I'm tapping it with a standard hammer and either a long screw driver or a chisel. I'm really concerned about whacking it too hard and messing up the new bearing through which I have the screw driver/chisel. | ||
| Robi |
If I use a bearing puller, should I take the rotor off then? If I cannot tap it out, does that suggest the bearing puller will not work? | ||
| Berkshire |
If I use a bearing puller, should I take the rotor off then? only if it interferes with attaching the puller. If I cannot tap it out, does that suggest the bearing puller will not work? I've never been able to tap one out - the force require goes beyond what I'd consider a mere "tap"! I would think a new one would come out easier than one with mileage, and a bearing puller should be less traumatic than a big screwdriver & hammer - even a slide hammmer would use an internal puller that would spread the force out more evenly on the inner race than a screwdriver or chisel. Now that I think about it, I forgot the spacer once too. I cussed, knocked a bearing out, put the spacer in, and went on from there. I wonder if that's why the left wore out before the right?!} hmmm. Or maybe it's the one that's in there now, I forget... | ||
| Reuel |
I beat the hell out of mine! Put a long extension on a socket, and beat it with a hammer. With vigorous beating, and frequent checks to make sure it was coming out straing, it still took about 5 minutes to get it out. I wouldn't have even tried it from the other side if there was anything left of the other bearing (outer race doesn't count!). | ||
| Robi |
I got it. Shopped around tonight (Wal-Mart, Auto Zone, Advanced Auto, Harbor Frieght)...went with slide hammer from Auto Zone. All money paid, will be refunded (including tax) once I return... - special they have for specialty one time use tools. That was a relief. Now I have to look back through here to see the sequence of the axle nut washer. I'm thinking it goes: new bearing, old bearing, washer, nut. | ||
| Robi |
Is there supposed to be any play of the inner spacer while inside the wheel with no axle? Or does place the axle and torquing the wheel back on, bring it snug? Currently I have play, but I think the bearing is in. | ||
| Robi |
BTW: inner spacer measurements. Length: 4.5 inches OD: 1 inch ID: 13/16 inch This is what I got. It's the first time I did such a measurement, so you might want to double check. | ||
| Swampy |
Thanks for the measurements. The spacer should be snug, not loose and rattleing around. Try putting it together, torquing it up and then take it apart and check it. What has happened is the bearings are not seated in the hub all the way. | ||
| Robi |
I would say it's in between rattle and snug. It’s there; touching I’d say, but you could wobble it with your finger. I rode it today; about 12 miles to work, and everything seemed OK (to me). The noise I heard before is gone. I hope the bearing with the JB Weld seated all the way. But there are two things (3 things) I could have done better (and should have done): (1) When I laid the bearing in with the JB Weld, I centered it, but I did not push down with too much pressure. I had the wheel horizontal on 4 jack stands. I assumed gravity would set it. (2) I failed to install the axle when I set the JB Weld bearing. Doing so would probably have drawn my attention to #3. (3) Forgot the inner spacer (as discussed above). While I realized I should have installed the axle when seating the JB Weld bearing, I do believe I lucked out and got it centered. When installing the caliper side bearing last night, and when mounting the wheel, the axle slid through all items pretty smoothly, of course, more smoothly when horizontal installing the bearing, than when mounting When mounting the wheel, I have to wiggle the axle through all the different parts, I am guessing this is normal. But still, the only binding when sliding the axle seemed to be due to my lack of vigilance holding the wheel up with my toes, foot, and right arm. The combo tool for installing the bearing: When it came to install the caliper side bearing (the one w/o the weld), the combo axle tool didn’t come together like I had visualized. Thinking I was going to use all the pieces, then the nut to “tighten-in” the bearing, I failed to include (or the lack thereof) the carrier and both sides of the swing arm. Therefore, I had a lot of axle left over (even with both old bearings). I have to admit, I got a little impatient (and none of you folks have on-call beepers), so I did what seemed the next best thing. With the wheel horizontal on 4 jack stands, I slid the axle down through the wheel and new bearing. Stacked along the axle (from new bearing up) were: 2 hold bearings, washer, spacer, and washer; topped by the axle end with the rear axle hole. I took a rubber mallet and pounded it in. This is also where the bearing might not be seated properly, but I really believe last night that I got it all the way in there, as much as I could at least (insert joke here). QUESTIONS: 1. Will I be OK waiting for the weekend to take the wheel off again? Or because it’s a bearing issue, need I do it quickly? 2. How likely is it that mounting and torquing fixed it? (this is my laziness asking) Thanks again for everyone’s help. | ||
| Berkshire |
It should be fine - just periodically grab the tire and push/pull to see if it moves with respect to the swingarm or if the grease seal on the bearing moves with respect to the spacer, and take a look at the JB weld. Once you're sure the repair will hold up, you can decrease the frequency of inspection. Don't worry about not doing it exactly perfect - it's not a heart valve replacement. Besides, in 5-10K miles one of the bearings will probably need replacement, so you'll get another shot at them then! LOL | ||
| Swampy |
You want to torque the rear axle nut to 48-52 Ft Lbs and no more. Just check the bearings from time to time and all will be well. Now go enjoy! | ||
| Reuel |
You were much more careful at pressing the bearing in than I was! I think I just put an old bearing on top of it, put a piece of flat metal on that, and gently (NOT!) tapped it with a hammer, doing my best to check every few taps to make sure it was going in straight. I tried the threaded rod once, but the motorcycle gods were playing tricks on me. The bearing went really crooked, and the threads went to heck. That time, all I had was the old bearing, so I simply went around it, tapping a little at a time to get it to not get really crooked until it was all the way in. | ||
| Robi |
My belt is sliding toward the outside again. When I originally replaced the bearings, it seemed to have brought it closer to center. I'm wondering if I have over torqued the nut, pushing the bearings in, and therefore pulling the sprocket in. Can I loosen and torque w/o a rear stand, using just the kick stand? If I over torqued it, did I possibly do permanent damage to the bearing? I know the obvious answer is yes, but is there anything specific I should look for? | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
Yes, you can retorque it without raising it off the ground. You can torque it too much and ruin the bearings, but they cant be pushed any further into the hub. Given the design, you'd have to really overtorque it a lot to ruin the bearings (imho). If you left out the spacer, its very easy. Its very, very common for the belt to rub and wear the sprocket cover. Its also very, very common for people to panic about it and very, very common for well intentioned (but unknowing) people to comment about it. | ||
| Robi |
OK, OK, OK. I'll chill out about the belt, but after this one last question. While this is something I don't want to mess with, especially in light of the belt issue being a moot issue. But someone suggested that the tie bar (#23, pages 55-56 of parts manual) angels the motor, and you (not me, I don't want to do it) could possibly straighten the path of the belt by straightening the motor. Again, I'm not going to bother asking about the belt again (in this context), but I am curious about this other person's opinion. | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
The angle of the engine wont matter. The swingarm is attached directly to the rear of the engine so you could put the engine on its side and the belt/pulley will still be lined up. The only reason the belt/pulleys wouldnt line up is bent parts or worn wheel/swingarm bearings. FWIW: If you look at the repair manual you'll see that when pulling (or more accurately, separating) the engine from the bike, the swingarm and rear wheel come out as an assembly. | ||
| Fast1075 |
An old trick to get bearings to go in easily....put the bearings in the freezer for 1/2 hour before installing them...do one at a time so the second bearing does not warm up while you are fitting the first bearing...don't worry about the frost, it will melt and the little bit of moisture will evaporate. When driving them in...lacking a bearing driver, use the old bearing as a tool...any blows to the inner race will begin microscopic spalling...leading to shorter bearing life...only apply force to the OUTER race of the bearing. | ||
| Reuel |
My belt has been making all kinds of noise since I changed my bearings! It's a damn nuisance, but that's all it is. I might try loosening the axle nut, shaking things a bit, and tightening it again, but I doubt it'll change anything. My belt has always squeeked off and on, but keeps lasting the 15K as promised. |
