| Author | Message | ||
     Onecos |
The directions are right on... I'm having my Laverda frame fixed at ProStreet Harley Davidson... only the Harley guys can do it right. Anyhow, the Blast was handling funny. The guy at ProStreet rode it around the parking lot, grabbed the rear wheel and told me the bearing had failed. Ok... I called the Honolulu Harley/Buell dealer and they told me "two weeks". Got on line, used the Honda part number, bought em from NAPA. Working great!!! Thank's for the info! | ||
| Robi |
In another section I was asking about a “creaking” noise from my rear wheel, which has gotten worse over 4 days of riding. Because I originally thought it was the belt, and someone suggested it might be the bearings, I am therefore posting my continued questions here. I lifted the rear and took some pictures of the amount of “wiggle” I see between the right side bearing and where it sits within the wheel. From my understanding, there shouldn’t be any play here. The wheel is filthy from me putting it back on by myself for the first time and not know what the hell I was doing. The bearing on the right side came out of the wheel when removed, and sat on the garage floor for a day when I took the tires to be replaced. I spun the bearing in my hand and put back in the wheel, blowing the grass off it from the ground. After reading today, it seems bearings need to be handled with more care, kept cleaner, and they should not be coming out of the wheel, at least easily. I set the camera up on a small tripod and pushed the button with one hand while wiggling the wheel with the other. The movement you see between the shots should be 95% wheel movement, and only 5% of my hand pressing the bottom of the camera affixed to the tripod (estimates).         (Edited out additional photos) OK. So these pictures may be worthless when posted. Clicking picture by picture through Window's allows you to see the shift within the frame, scrolling down you can't see any real differences, at least on the last 2 sets of views. However, it took me over 2 hours to figure out how to change both my pixel numbers and file size, so I'm going to go ahead and post them in the hopes that maybe someone's trained eye can make use of them (if the verbal description is not enough). Administrator, feel free to delete if you feel they are useless. Anyhow. . . When I called the HD dealer on Friday, the guy suggested repacking them (He said, “That’s what he’d do”). But from reading the forum, it looks like there is a split between repacking and replacing. I think the argument for replacing is better, partly because of cost (reasonable) and lack of skill on my part. It will take about 1 week for the bearings to be in. Questions: Does this amount of play (if you can tell from the pictures) point to having to replace the bearings? Do you think the amount of play in this wheel (as best as I can record and present) calls for not riding it for the week until the new bearings come in? “Safety first” tells me to wait, but after riding my bike, I hate driving my truck anymore. Weather calls for rain until Tuesday. Do you think it’s reasonable to ride it from Wednesday until (I’m guessing) Friday when the bearings should come in? From reading the forum, it seems there should be no play between the bearing and the wheel at all. However, someone mentioned putting green locktite in to fill the gap. (See http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/20164/262208.html) Posted on Monday, August 28, 2006 - 01:43 pm: Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only) Strongly recommend using a higher viscosity Loctite retaining compound such as Loctite 641 (green color) for wheel bearing retention applications. It is specifically formulated for just this application (gap filling and retention of mating cylindrical parts). Is this a legitimate procedure, or do I need to get a new wheel? -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Also, what does "OD" mean? Context: Best to use a socket or similar object that is just slightly smaller than the OD of outer bearing race. (See, http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/20164/36619.html) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- I just put an order in at the HD dealer for 2 E6204's. Do I need to specifically ask for grease seals on both sides? Or is that just for non-Harley parts stores? I read someone post: Make sure you get one with grease seals on both sides. (See, http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/20164/36619.html) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Message edited by robi on July 19, 2008) | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
"the guy suggested repacking them".LOL! He obviously doesnt know Blasts. Wow! HD bearings will come with grease seals since they are sealed bearings. Really looks like your wheel is bad beyond repair. The bearing is probably still good, but easily fell out of the wheel. The play I think I see is way to much to be fixed by JB weld and Loctite. OD = Outside Diameter. The wheel is more than likely toast so riding more wont make it unrepairable-it already is. E-bay for wheels or new from Chicago HD. | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
PS really impressed you did a Badweb search. Now you know as much as possible before asking questions. | ||
| Reuel |
What Erik said! The first picture is all I had to see. It should be so tight you need tools to push it in or out. | ||
| Robi |
Thank you. I will shop for wheel now. Next question: Will the new wheel come with bearings? (I'm guessing not.) Do I need the special tool to install the bearings, or is the method of tapping it with a socket that reaches and rests against the outer diameter a legitimate technique? | ||
| Swampy |
Robi, I have had wheel problems before. The wheel bearings should be tight in the wheel hub, they should not come out easily. Removing and replacing must be done so as not to install, or begin to install the bearing crooked, so special tools, or a very good eye with lots of patience is recommended. The wheel hub is soft aluminum and if the bearing goes in crooked it will distort the bore and allow the bearing to become loose in the wheel hub. I have used alot of different things to try and fix the problems short of replacing the wheel. The next best thing is to clean everything up with brake clean, and with a new wheel bearing(as it will be there a long time) use JB Weld, which is a two part epoxy to glue the bearing in the hub. The JB Weld has more body and fills the gap that the Loctite bearing retainer stuff will not. While the J B Weld is "settign up" reinstall the wheel on the bike and torque everything to spec. Then leave the bike overnight on stands with the rear wheel off the ground. The Big Kids Blasts rear wheel has out last his motor with the J B Weld. | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
A new wheel will come with bearings installed. I'd be suspect of any used wheel that does not have bearings in it. It sounds as if there may be way to much play to fix with JB weld. Of course you have nothing to lose if you try. The best way to put bearings in is with a bearing installer-simply a threaded rod that goes through the wheel with 2 big washers and nuts that pull the bearings together in the hub as you tighten the nuts. Save the old bearings and combine that with the axle and wheel spacers and you have your tool! | ||
| Robi |
Swampy - if I'm understanding you correctly, are you suggesting to try this JB Weld first, before buying a new wheel? If so, do you suggest reusing the old bearing (if it turns smoothly)? Or use the JB Weld to hold the new bearings in place? Also, is it possible (though from the discussion of the wheel being aluminum makes it less likely) that it is the bearing that is bad, and thus causes the play? As I type this, I'm guessing it is easier for an aluminum hole to widen, than it is for a wheel bearing to shrink in diameter (but I'm stupid about this, so I'll ask). If this is what you are suggesting, where do I get the JB Weld? Is it truly a glue only? The word Weld doesn't suggest any welding skills does it? Also, would it be better to let it dry with the wheel laying flat? It seems that would prevent pooling downward of the circle, but at the same time, would it possibly seep into the center of the wheel? If there is one drying position better than the other: Is the glue likely to seep anywhere? If so, would seeping into the center of the wheel be problematic? If dried upright, is it possible to pool toward the bottom of the circle and make it rotate off balance? Gearhead - Though I feel safer getting a new part, I just paid for the mounting and balancing of new tires. My neighbor just looked at the play, and said promptly, "yeah, that's shot." While he didn't second guess having to get a new wheel, he might not have been aware of the JB Weld option. (I will ask him). Consider the price of the mounting and balancing, does your opinion of Swampy's method achieve more votes from you? (Message edited by robi on July 19, 2008) (Message edited by robi on July 19, 2008) | ||
| Ezblast |
Done it - it works, others have also - after that the next bearing replacement - chances are - a new wheel is in order (bearing comes with it), having used JBWeld before in other projects as well - mixed success. I'd use a new - read better wheel bearing set for the JBWeld. EZ | ||
| Bigdaddy |
The JBWeld method will work and it'll continue to work as long as the bearing you're putting in stays alive. Once it dies you've acquired a new piece of garage art  | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
Concur with BD & EZ! Use 'Swampy's method' and ask for more details if still unsure about the process. JB Weld is available at Home Depot (the other HD) or hardware stores (very well known product). Make sure everything is cleaned well and dont forget the axle spacer. Pooling isnt a problem, you're not using that much.The only problem is if you use too much and it contacted the inner race and axle. The JB Weld is used more as a shim, than a glue and filler. You've got nothing to lose except the $5 for the JB Weld and $20 for the bearings (but being HD, its probably $40 for the bearings). Not much can go wrong except you'll be stuck with a bad wheel (the same as you have now). Brake parts cleaner (brakekleen-spray can) will clean everything nicely, however the outer edge of the new bearing race may be coated in a fine oil. Clean it off carefully with Brakekleen on a towel-dont wash the inside of the bearings clean. From the pictures it looks as if you have a lot of play-so dont rush the job. You may have to drive the truck for a week. | ||
| Robi |
$25.60 for 2 bearings from HD Dealer. It seems I lucked out on the pricing. Thank you. I'm going to give it a shot. (Message edited by robi on July 20, 2008) | ||
| Reuel |
You have quite a bit of play. You just have to figure out a way to keep the bearing centered in reference to the wheel itself, or you'll have a severe wobble on your hands. Sticking it in and bolting it to the frame might result in the bearing settling to one side. It might work if you put the wheel on the ground and put the bearing in the middle of the worn out bore, and measure to make sure it's perfectly centered. That's assuming the bore is worn evenly. You might want to have someone spin balance it when you're done to see if it worked. $25.60 is average, or slightly above, for bearings. The last set I got was $22 something, and I went high-end. (Message edited by reuel on July 20, 2008) | ||
| Robi |
Good point. Do I need to go to the dealer to have the balance checked? If this is the case, that might mean it might be cheaper to go with the new wheel. Would a wobble be dangerous? Or is it something you can ride until you get a new tire? In other words, if I try it, get a wobble, does that mean the bike gets parked for a whole other week? Or if I try it, get the wobble, see that it didn't work, and then go ahead and order the wheel, riding with a wobble? | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
HD lists the bearings for $10! I'm a little surprised! "Also, your tool idea. So I understand properly: 1. Wheel off 2. Long threaded bolt reaching out the other side of the wheel. Bolt and washer on that other side of the wheel holds it in place.Easiest to use the axle. That will ensure the tightest fit and alignment of all parts. 3. On the side of bearing to be installed Bearing at wheel, washer, old bearing, and spacer on top of that.New bearing, old bearing, big washer, additional spacers. The same set up on the other side. 4. Tighten the bolt, pushing the washers against the bearing, pushing it into the wheel."It'll feel solid when the bearing seats. Its best to try and mimic the axle location as it would be on the bike. If the wheel bore is bad enough to cause a severe wobble, it probably wont work anyway. | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
I wouldn't worry about it. Doubtful you'll have severe wobble issues and if the bearing comes loose again (which I'm sure it will if it wobbles), you could probably ride it until the new wheel comes in. The JB weld fix-$30. New Wheel-$200+. We dont have a problem with you spending the extra money on a new wheel, its up to you. We'd try fixing it first, thats our nature. | ||
| Ezblast |
I used the quick set JBWeld with the wheel on its side then after a couple of hours - I mounted it and kept it jacked up/free spinning - no wobble and feels fine in the corners - my experience - if the wheel is too worn you could have issues I suppose or using the regular JBWeld set on the horizontal plane with measurements and wait 24 hrs then mount and let free hang for another 24 - spin it for wobble check every so often - lol - giving it the maximum curing time. EZ | ||
| Robi |
No, I'm gonna try to fix it. $30 is doable, $200 is not. I haven't seen the play in the other (left) side, but I'm guessing I am doing both sides, even if the left side is in tight, I want to get it out and replace correct? To remove other bearing (if stuck), slide long screwdriver in though other side, and tap bearing out from inside the wheel. Correct? Am I am using JB Weld on the other side, even if there is no play? | ||
| Swampy |
I found that the other side usually is fine and nothing needs to be done to it. Must be all that torque on the pulley? BTW, so you think us Blasters are having problems with the pulley side bearing? You ought to check the Uylesses Forum and see what they are experiencing, the pulley bearing is considerably smaller than the new Sportster bearing. | ||
| Robi |
OK. Have wheel off, old bearing spins true. Not free spin, but smoothly, with no grabbing. This is good right? My plan is to use the old bearing with the JB Weld, and try to cancel the order for 2 new bearings. From reading above, I don't need to replace both sides, and if the old loose one is still in good shape, I'd rather glue it in, instead of a brand new bearing. If it doesn't work, and I need a new wheel, from my understanding, it will come with bearings. Hopefully, they'll let me cancel the order. Do you guys know if HD will let you cancel a "special order?" I just ordered it Saturday, and will cancel tomorrow morning. However, Swampy, do you disagree with this logic, since you said put the new bearing in? If I get it in and there ends up being a wobble because of the way it set, did I just waste that new bearing? (OK, as I re-read, it looks like EZ says new bearing also). But I'd still like to see what you guys think of my logic. -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- --------------- What is the portion where the bearing fits into the wheel called? Is it a bearing hub? I have the wheel standing again the wall at a slight angle. I have newspaper folded long and narrow, to slide through the wheel under the (what I am calling the hub, until I'm told otherwise). Any brake cleaner that runs out, hits the paper instead of the sprocket, and doesn't run onto the tire. I spray, let set for a few minutes, and wipe with paper towel. I then turn the wheel so many degrees, slide newspaper through next spoke, and spray hub again. I am doing this because the cleaner is pooling at the bottom of the hub, and as I rotate it, each section gets the same cleaning. So how clean does this thing have to be? I have no problems cleaning as much as I need to, but am asking because as I rotate it, and spray, it's gotten at least 8 sprays and wipes. The brake cleaner that pools is clearer and clearer, and the paper towel I wipe it with is cleaner and cleaner. But there seems to always be a little grime on the paper towel. The area it is coming from is from the inner most portion of the hub (again, if I'm calling it the right thing). If I understand correctly, it needs to be clean for the JB Weld, and the JB Weld is only going to make contact with the outer walls. So if the walls are wiping clean (white paper towel coming out when wiping that area), is that good enough? Or do I need to clean it until nothing from anywhere within the hub is wiping off? -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- ------------ Gearhead - do I still use your axle/tool idea for seating the bearing with JB Weld? -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- ------------ EZ - you said to spin every so often to check for wobble once mounted, but put in LOL - should I really check for wobbled? Or are you saying "LOL" because there wouldn't be anything you could do about the wobble at that point anyhow? | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
The only part that needs to be clean is the hub that will contact the JB Weld. Everything else must be at least dry. Your best chance is with new bearings. They are cleaner and have zero wear. The old bearing are at least worn and may be more so because of the one side being loose in the hub. Yes its a $25 gamble buying the new bearings, but its unlikely you'll get a second chance if the old bearings go bad. Yes, you may be able to cancel the order. Yes use the axle, but my assumption is the bearing will just drop in anyhow. Put the whole assembly on the bike and torque it to specs, belt off, wheel of the ground and leave it be for a few days. | ||
| Ezblast |
There shouldn't be any and with new bearings and you spin it, if it is there is you will see it quick enough! EZ (Message edited by ezblast on July 20, 2008) | ||
| Swampy |
That is the same advice I would give Robi. If you have at least a new bearing for the right side, use it. This has worked for me for many miles with no trouble. | ||
| Robi |
New bearings it is. Thank you. | ||
| Robi |
Do I apply to the walls of the hub that will meet the bearing and then slide the bearing in? Or do I apply with a Q-tip to the outer race (I think that's what it's called) of the bearing and then slide it into the hub? Or both of the above? Does it expand as it sets? If some does get on the bearings, will it break lose through use? How do I know how much to apply? | ||
| Ezblast |
Very thin coats to both sides - bearing and wall. EZ | ||
| Robi |
thanks | ||
| Themagster |
Routine maintenance – not so routine finding. Maintenance is usually done in my garage but due to shortage of time, just before heading out for a long trip, took Blast into my local bike shop (not an HD dealership) for rear bearings. That was at 42,000 miles or roughly 10,000 miles ago. Recently noticed weird sound when rear break applied, inspection revealed grease seal had separated from bearing. Upon removing for replacement, surprise, no center axle spacer. It’s just not there. I had noticed a slight wobble in recent miles and I have been doing routine repairs in attempts to alleviate the problem. Never imagined that a part would be completely missing. Goes to show that the care used when working in your own garage (thanks here due to husband’s elbow grease) assures you that all parts removed, are carefully and correctly replaced. My question: center axle spacer is on order, in meantime was wondering if there was a suitable replacement (size/diameter of tubing used for spacer)? | ||
| Swampy |
I don't know but I need one also! |
