| Author | Message | ||
     Ezblast |
Did the survey - lol EZ | ||
| Rick_a |
Many of the kits use CP pistons. | ||
| Buelliedan |
Funny for all those great things you say Millenium Nikasils are I sure don't see anybody beating us at Boneville with them!! If they are so great how come we don't see any of them in the 200+ club like NRHS is??? We have went 218mph using "using big thick and heavy iron sleeves". Whats the fastest a Millenium equiped bike has went? My feeling is put up or shut up. (Message edited by buelliedan on May 17, 2008) | ||
| Fast1075 |
The gauntlet is thrown. | ||
| Buelliedan |
Hey they asked for facts to back up my claims, well here you go. In fact I will take it one step further and issue a challenge. If anybody can beat our record with a single engine, Millenium Nikasil cylinders on a 1650cc or less, sit on, air cooled V-twin american engine bike I will give them $500. This can use turbos, nitrous, etc. (Message edited by buelliedan on May 17, 2008) | ||
| Ezblast |
Again we are talking about timed/speed racing and twins - do you not have to do a tear down after the run to prove your engine? And then rebuild it back to speck for your next set. By the way at the BUB Terry P. got a 135 top speed using the Nikasil on a Blast which is topic appropriate, and there have been others there as well - J Dees set several records - Susan's bike also ran Nikasil and set a record, so did Ray Germains side car Blast - all set records - that is topic appropriate and puts up the fact that Nikasil cylinders have ran and set records on the salt. EZ | ||
| Ezblast |
So not only is the gauntlet thrown back, but I'm on topic. EZ | ||
| Buelliedan |
How is the gauntlet thrown back? We have the fastest Buell in the world, period and it runs on iron lined cylinders. If you want to be the big dog you have to beat the big dog. Until that time your argument looks weak. Was the topic not that some of you felt Nikasils are superior to iron lined? Don't backpeddle now. To bring up records that are slower only shows desperation in my opinion. And Susans bike will not be running Nikasils this year just an FYI. (Message edited by buelliedan on May 17, 2008) | ||
| Ezblast |
Those are singles - your talking twin - those are appropriate to this topic area, the twin is not - if I cared about the twins, this topic would be on the twin boards, I see all of the Blast single LSR racers using Nikasil - and setting records! You have one twin - like FMJ's - maxed out beyond ever seeing street duty unless totally rebuilt, yet Terry and others have just done a cam and exhaust swap, a timing adjustment and have ridden theirs on the street - fact is Erik Buell toured the Bay area for almost a week on Terry's Blast - whens the last time you went cruising on that twin? EZ | ||
| Buelliedan |
Like I said, Desperation. You are right, we do not curently race a single. I guess if that makes you feel superior to us having the worlds fastest Buell then you got me there. Terrys bike has just had an exhaust and cam swap? So you are saying it is still stock bored cases? Like a 515 or smaller? You might ask yourseld why FMJ (you know Terrys business partner) no longer runs Nikasils either? See ya (Message edited by buelliedan on May 17, 2008) | ||
| Ezblast |
Desperation - lol - doesn't sound like desperation to me except from your end, when you start mentioning twins in the single section - to prove a point - fact is you can not name one person doing an LSR on a Blast using the Iron sleeved - a single is a true test of any part - there is no spare to limp you home as on a twin - lol - and Terry plans on beating the 150 mark this year or next - what is your single doing - ohh - thats right - you don't have one - sigh - Revolution performance on the other hand has been active there as well - and when is the last time you rode your LSR twin on the street? EZ | ||
| Berkshire |
I gotta figure aerodynamics are much more important than weight where top speed is concerned. It also seems like heat dissipation wouldn't be a big issue either - there is plenty of air available for cooling. I'm not sure that the "put up or shut up" argument makes much sense here - Bonneville is not for everyone... there's only one venue and one event per year, right? In contrast, you can drag race every week, or road race every month, and most people can do so without having to drive more than an hour or two to the track - you get a lot more track time per dollar! Maybe a better question would be: Have you beaten any Millenniun equipped bikes or seen some that failed to qualify? How many people/teams are in the running? Have any switched from the Millennium cylinders shown above to the NRHS iron-lined cylinders shown above? I think it's already been established that plated aluminum cylinders are well represented in road racing, and that is MUCH more relevant to Blast owners. If you're going to play the racing card, then please tell what does NRHS recommend for road racing, and why do you think it's better than the competition? BTW - is the lining IRON, or STEEL? Steel is stronger than aluminum, so it seems like the end of the cylinder that sticks down into the crankcase could be made thinner with steel than it could with aluminum, which would mean you could run a bigger bore without boring the cases. I don't know much about iron - My impression is that it would need to be thicker than steel, but...? Is there a bigger bore size available with the iron-lined cylinders that will fit the stock cases? Since aluminum has a higher coefficent of expansion and the piston is aluminum, wouldn't it make more sense to have the cylinder expand at the same rate? It seems like otherwise the piston would expand more than the cylinder, causing big changes in piston/bore clearance at different temperatures, and siezure in cases of extreme overheating. Comments? | ||
| Buelliedan |
I am not going to respnd anymore as it is pointless. I merely came her offering a cheaper alternative to the presently available 515 kits. Each consumer can make up ther own mind which kit is best for them. To attack me in the way that Blake and EZ have done only confirms that it was the right thing to do to pull our sponsorship from Badweb. (Message edited by buelliedan on May 17, 2008) (Message edited by buelliedan on May 17, 2008) | ||
| Ezblast |
The factory supports racing - it doesn't race. There is however, a large non-professional group of folks that do road races on almost all the local tracks - especially here in California - and Blasts are raced as well in singles competitions. Surely your not saying that you are ignorant of this market? EZ | ||
| Ezblast |
Dan - please - I'm not attacking you - I've been wrong plenty,however, I try to learn - you probably don't remember me pestering you and Aaron and Brian - usually on the phone - but I do - and you guys taught a lot - I am still very thankful and respectful of that - I'm sure Iron sleeved must have a place, because they are still sold, but to say that something as popular as the Nikasil doesn't just kicks against popular knowledge, and so of course we ask for proof - If I really offended you I appologise, however, I've always been passionate about this single, so yeah I get a bit testy when its said those records are grasping - On terry's bike - you know it is bored, etc., but it was still streetable - lol - thats a point. EZ | ||
| Rick_a |
This issue has been discussed to death in the past. Nikasil cylinders have long been regarded to be superior in every respect in all applications (since the 70's!?) IF the coating process is good. Fact is most motorcycle manufacturers have switched from steel liners over a decade ago in air and liquid cooled bikes. There's nothing wrong with steel lined cylinders or all steel cylinders as everything has their application. (Message edited by Rick_A on May 17, 2008) | ||
| Fast1075 |
Rick_a has a valid point...My general perspective towards engines has always been razor edge tuning...miss the tuneup and you will kill anything...any endurance application whether street or racing dictates a livable tune...maximum power output ALWAYS consumes parts...whether it is 5 seconds down track in a Top Fuel engine, or the last laps of an endurance run..it's a balance of tune and output..and of course the basic design and quality of the engine and it's consituent components, including proper selection, and fitment. It is a fact that if you give several different people identical sets of parts and equipment, with the only difference being the setup and assembly...there will always be one that is "fastest", one that is "slowest" and the rest in the middle. The fastest/most powerful issue is with rare exception always going to come down to an engine that is JUST reliable enough to accomplish the goal while keeping the fire lit and all the oily parts on the INSIDE.. My opinion about cylinder material is based on years of proven personal experience...call me old Dawg, set in my my ways...maybe it has something to do with a couple of old useless KX cylinders that adorn a shelf in my shop...I have friends that ran in the old now retired 750 Superbike class in AMA Prostar that can speak volumes about plated cylinders and extreme nitrous tuneups...as I said...extreme...and these guys were not some clowns that "hooked up with some mad NOZZ" .... | ||
| Blake |
"I merely came her offering a cheaper alternative to the presently available 515 kits." But you aren't a sponsor. And you just agreed on your honor to abide by our terms of use. I'm baffled. | ||
| Buelliedan |
Blake, I was hoping maybe you had changed just a little bit as you had told me you had done. Remember how you said you had learned from some of your past mistakes over on Sacborg. I stupidly thought maybe, just maybe I would give badweb another try at sponsorship as I get about 2-3 e-mails every month asking NRHS to do so. But once again you have shown your true colors and made me glad I have not given you one dime of NRHS money. I find it so funny how you put your heads were done by Nallin in your profile. Funny but I have an invoice here in my computer that says they were done by NRHS. And just who do you think owns the name Hurricane pistons? yes that would be NRHS as well. So your bike is not Nallinized as you put it. It is NRHSized!! I'm baffled!! (Message edited by buelliedan on May 18, 2008) | ||
| Ezblast |
Again - there will be no slurring of people, Blake is just reminding of policy - when you where a sponsor, you always had that policy strictly enforced vs other vendors as well who popped on the board pushing their wears - that attitude still stands and understandably so. It would be great if you where a sponsor, however, since your not, you are required to not advertise - talking about a product in general is fine,comparing against another product is fine - advertising comes in when you do a vendor comparison vs product and price points. Someone saying - hey - these guys are selling this at an on sale price - is different from a non-sponsor comming in and saying our product is on sale for less than theirs - that is advertising - the former is not, though it may help the vendor mentioned. EZ | ||
| Buelliedan |
EZ, You really need to learn the history of the things that happened when NRHS left badweb as a sponsor. Lets just say Millenium/RevoPerf was at the center of it all. To hear Blake say the things he is saying just re-inforces my feelings. It is sad as Aaron and I are some of the staunchest Buell supporters out there and this forum is IMO the best Buell forum. But when someone stabs a former friend in the back over money I just cannot give him my sponsorship or the technical help to the board like we used to. | ||
| Blake |
Dan has never been a sponsor of BadWeB. Fortunately, Ed knows the history all too well. What we have seen here is much the same as what transpired over three years ago, a business owner with a selfish motive to smear Revolution Performance, who is failing to win a technical debate and so then resorts to personal attack and feigned victimization. It doesn't get much more transparent. | ||
| Buelliedan |
Whatever Blake. Funny but it was actually you who started this whole debate by putting down my cylinders first. I never said anything abut mine vs them until you did. It is all right here in this post for the world to see who said what. Please show me where I said anything about my cylinders vs Milleniums until you brought it up? This was exactly the same behavior you pulled when NRHS left badweb as a sponsor. Looks like you are the one who actually has the selfish motives not me. Like I said you are the biggest hypocrite I have ever known. I have gotten several phone calls from folks on Badweb supporting me about this whole mnatter. I am very confident in where I stand on it. maybe you should look in the mirror Blake and ask yourself why these kind of things keep happening? | ||
| Blake |
Dan has never been a sponsor of BadWeB. What we have seen here is much the same as what transpired over three years ago, a business owner (ableit a BadWeB sponsor at the time) with a selfish motive to smear Revolution Performance, who is failing to win a technical debate and so then resorts to personal attack and feigned victimization. It doesn't get much more transparent. This is not something that "keeps happening." It is pretty much the same tired old scheme employed by the same vindictive shop going on for over three years now, ever since their campaign to malign their competition was opposed here on BadWeB. Anyone who show up on BadWeB blatantly flouting our terms of use for their own gain and continues to do so even after polite offline request that they cease doing so will meet the exact same objections. Anyone who comes here behaving dishonorably, insulting others and continuing to promote their business/products will meet the exact same objections, usually with much less tolerance and leeway. Everyone here is free to expose the otherwise unknown origins of products of interest. All of us on BadWeB are also free to thoughtfully critique the merits of products of interest, especially in counter to the disingenuous claims of those with a direct vested interest in promoting them and trashing their competition. Promotional efforts of non-sponsors are always opposed on BadWeB, more vigorously so if/when such dishonest behavior continues despite polite requests that it be avoided. Finally, when anyone here abandons the debate of ideas, choosing instead to resort to personal attack they will find that their posting privileges are in jeopardy. BadWeB accepts unedited comments from the general public and leaves all conversation threads for everyone to consider for themselves. There is no need for misleading mischaracterizations as the folks may read the record and decide for themselves. BadWeB is no fifedom for any sponsor. At one time it was very nearly unwittingly just that, but thankfully integrity ruled the day. | ||
| Buelliedan |
I think we should just end it here and let the people decide who is the one with the selfish motives. Agreed? My $500 offer is still on the table to anyone who can beat our record at Bonneville with Millenium Nikasil cylinders. I am not afraid to put my money where my mouth is. | ||
| Reuel |
That would be a fun challenge, but I suspect that making my Blast competitive would cost more than $500. I'm going back to my ignition and fuel injection challenge ... | ||
| Ezblast |
Between the fussing here - who cares about a twin challenge in a singles forum - lol - I do think we have learned one thing - If your racing and not worried about long term motor life - the Iron sleeved cylinders are a great choice - do to re-usability, and inexpensive price point for quick change outs - aka drag racing, or perhaps LSR as Dan insists. For longevity and a cooler running motor the Nikasil seams to to be a better point and is also the popular choice in modern road racing bikes and street bikes. Now folks can make an informed decision and make the proper purchase for their application. EZ | ||
| Reuel |
I don't know, EZ. If someone got a Blast to beat a twin, that would be pretty cool! Perhaps a 5" piston with a shorter stroke for higher RPMs and higher HP. Are we allowed to use alternative fuels? I'm thinking two tanks. One with hydrogen and one with oxygen. Wait... What about hydarzine? That's it. I'm going to get drunk and draw up the plans tonight!  No, that won't work. I'm an electronical person, not a mechanical person.  562.5R? nevermind (Message edited by reuel on May 20, 2008) | ||
| Blake |
"My $500 offer is still on the table to anyone who can beat our record at Bonneville with Millenium Nikasil cylinders. I am not afraid to put my money where my mouth is." I say you are or you would make a meaningful offer, say $10,000. I'll happily reciprocate though. I'll award $500 to any racer running Chinese iron lined cylinders that can win an ASRA Thunderbike race or a national CCS Expert Thunderbike or Supertwins race. | ||
| Buelliedan |
How about the 500cc Blast record at Bonneville? That is a record that my cylinders are eligible for as the 515 kit is in that category? All the classes you listed are running bigger than 1250s are they not? I believe those are all 1350cc bikes are they not? Are there any categories that Blast are running 500cc in road racing? Here's one for you to answer Blake,, If the Nikasils are so great, why did FMJ not use them in his new Bonneville engine? He used to run them. Now he has solid cast iron, WHY??? (Message edited by buelliedan on May 20, 2008) |
