| Author | Message | ||
     Ezblast |
Hey Ralph - were'nt you a racer? - I'd expect a racer to be able to ride anything with no ill effects, however, in general Spooky is right and in general its not good to mix brands, types, and styles - different compounds react differently in different situations and experimenting is best left for those with great insurance. lol - Got Thump?! Just Blasting on the Dark side! EZ | ||
| Ralphthe3rd |
Tire treads and compounds etc. The only difference in tires of different brands of the same size, is tire compounds and thread designs. As for the compounds- synthetic rubber is formulated to be either hard, soft or super soft (racing only). And for years Dunlop used to sell the same thread in various compounds, so you can mix and match for your riding styles. And in general, since rear tires wear much faster in the same compounds (as fronts)- we use to chose a soft compound for the front tire to match the wear rate of the rear. A rear tire also heats up faster and stays hotter. As for different thread designs, well the major difference is in water channeling effect or squirm stability over rain groves in the road or on metal grate bridges. You'll also note - that even most Matched tires have a slightly different thread pattern and when wear occurs on a rear tire, this also changes it's thread contact pattern. In the olden days (pre-20 yrs ago), there were major differences in thread design (Rib, block, cut groove etc.)and mixing and matching THOSE thread designs could lead to major handling problems- but still not all the time. And it was common place to alter the front tire thread pattern to try and eliminate handling problems on various roads (i.e.- rain groove tracking, metal bridges , etc.) But today, almost all tire brands are compatable if the same size is used. And sometimes you can vary sizes to obtain the steering characteristic you desire. For ME- my next front tire is going taller in size to the 100/90x16 front to slow down steering a tad and gain 1/2 inch more clearance and change the rake. I'll do this for better high speed stability, as the blast was designed to handle fast at slow speeds on acoount of newbie riders learning to manuever without loads of body english or countersteering imput. So Mr. Spooky, although you seemed to have studied some engineeering in the exhaust dept. you seem to lack experience in other aspects of motorcycle geometry and physics. Especially where tires are concerned. People are NOT going to crash and DIE when they change the thread or rubber compounds of their bias ply tires. But the original post I transferred here was althogether different, as mixing a bias ply and radial (Although done on some BMW motorcycles)can affect handling and I'm really not sure about the difference in construction of a Front Only substituted to a rear position can cause. Thats why I looked for a more experienced POV at this Tech site. And if I may comment on you exhaust system pipe dreams, my opinion would be this : You may gain a fraction more power in the band you desire over the torque curve- but is this truly worth all the effort and redesign to a system that Erik Buell Himself -despises? (I.E.- High mounted/center of gravity type). Spooky my friend-You truly desire to be "Different in Every Sense", but sometimes - a little common sense goes a longer way. BTW- where did you obtain your engineering degree from ??? | ||
| Fssnoc2501 |
Ralph, This IS NOT the rest of the BWB, for the past couple of years we have had this as a haven from the delirium of the rest of the board. I and I believe we want to hear your opinions, comments and advise, but please do so in a nice friendly, helpful manner. Some of your comments to Spooky are a bit over the top. I in fact have extensive experience in riding in many environments, but agree with EZ and Spooky that staying with matched tires is the overall best practice. It is true that this can be deviated from, but this is not necessarily the norm. As for Spooky's exhaust dreams / designs. So What, I have tried many things that surprised many people, but have equal as many dismal failures. As I have stated before this is what is cool about the Blast, the endless possibilities. I have thought on several occasions about visiting your yahoo group, but your smug attitude keeps me away. Am I wrong or do you think that you know more than 90% of the rest of the world. Please let me know, I do not like this feeling when I visit this part of the board, and I have been here since the beginning of the P-3 section. Ray | ||
| Ezblast |
Ralph - Bro - you need to chill - I know things are a bit rough now but your starting to get ugly in how your dealing with folks - Spooky's exhaust isn't wild so much as different. Yet there are a bunch of motorcycles - including the Duc you admire so with such exhaust designs. I know different in every sense allows for opinions also - but try not to draw blood with each of your own assertions. I've not got a tenth your experience on this topic - but I'll match you a 100 to 1 words read on the topic - and the worlds general consensus is to go with matched sets for the road - its safer - period. I can McGuiver with the best to save money but some risks I skip - mixing and trying to match tires is one of them - you choose differently - your choice. Everyones opinion here is welcome - its how you learn - what is always unwelcome is bashing instead of educating - I don't mind stepping on toes but I try to keep it light even as I do so because I've spent enough time in life being on the other side as well - lol - so play nice damn it;0) Got Thump?! Just Blasting on the Dark side! EZ | ||
| Blake |
Ralph, Do you think there might be a difference in the effects of mounting a 20 LB EPA compliant muffler versus a lightweight slip-on or even straight pipe under the seat? It sounds like you feel that your Blast is unstable at high speeds. Going from an 80 to 90 series 100mm wide tire will nominally net you 10mm more clearance at the front axle. Ten mm is 0.39". Clearance under your muffler midway between wheels will increase by half that, so roughly 0.2". You will certainly notice a significant change to the steering. With a 90 series front tire, your Blast will become harder to turn and may exhibit a tendency to stand up in corners. You'll also shift weight from front to rear axle. You talk about Erik knowing his stuff. More than anything he's a chassis engineer. My guess is that you'll not go back to the 90 series front tire once you've sampled what it does to the handling of your bike. Either that or go to a 90 series in the rear too. | ||
| Ezblast |
Do they make 120/90/16 - if they do is there a matching front 100/90/16 - in something besides chinese/korean - no offense but still not tol;0) - Got Thump?! Just Blasting on the Dark side! EZ | ||
| Evaddave |
I don't want to agitate an already boiling discussion, but I'm still curious about mixing tires. I'm definitely a newbie when it comes to motorcycles, and am trying to learn as much as I can. All my tire experience comes from cars and mountain bikes, where all the tires are the same size. In cars, I've always put the good ones up front, so it seems mixing tires isn't an issue there (plus with four of them, cars are way more stable in the first place). In mountain bikes, directional tires always get installed backwards (wrong direction) on the front wheel. The back tire drives the ground, but the front one is driven by the ground, and so it needs to be backwards for best grip. If motorcycle tires were the same size front and back, I imagine this same logic would hold. But as far as mixing tires on motorcycles, I still haven't seen any real reasons one way or the other. On one hand we have the "don't do it--you'll kill yourself" argument, and on the other hand we have the "I've done it plenty and I'm still around" argument. Neither of these is a real answer to the question of *why* it's good, bad, or indifferent to mix the tires. So what is it about matching tires that makes riding safer (or not)? Curiosity kills this cat... --Dave | ||
| Ray German |
Dave, Here's what I know about the issue of tire mixing and matching. It was never much of an issue until they came out with the radial type tire which improved tire response, feel and handling over bias plys. Their is also the changes in manufacturing methods that made tire patterns that actually make difference. In cars vs. cycle, mixing is compounding possible handling issue on the motorcycle because of the MC having only two wheels. The car (cage) is a more stable environment because of the four wheels, thus less apt to be effected by mixing of tires. In MC vs. Bicycle, the main factor that comes into play is speed. The greater the speed obtained by the vehicle the greater effect in stability. So generally the bicycle is much more forgiving. In MC vs. MC, it depend alot on the type of riding that is being done, wether it is street, dirt, slow, mormal or fast riding. In dirt or slow to normal speeds on the street, the cycle's stabilty is more dependent on surface and tire condition than on mixing and matching. The higher speeds on the street usually starts to see effects on handling with mixing or matching. So what does this mean, the best bet is to keep matching tires if the type of riding will be mostly street and speed relatively fast. Where you will notice the the most changes in handling characteristics would be curves. The other thing that can effect handling is tire size especially height. I have over the past 35+ years have mixed tire types on bikes, but this has been generally on dirt bikes and slower stret bikes. My opinion is for the most stability on the Blast if you like riding twisties is to stay with matched tires. If you choose to mix tires just remember to take it easy until you know how the bike is going to handle. Some of my mixes have really poorly effected handling, others have actually made it better. Hope this helps a little. Ray | ||
| Ray German |
What the H***. I just got made into a new member after 2-3 years on this board. What going on!!! Ray | ||
| Ralph R. Rosson III |
Thank you Ray, Blake, EZ and all the rest (sorry Spooky for my Dig). And I'm sorry Ray - if my attitude has turned you off and keeps you from my Yahoo Group. I can be rather brash, and I'm usually VERY opinionated. But I back down and apologize when proven wrong, which I sometimes am. I was just ticked with Spooky's reply to me and his admitted laziness not to even want to reply (Copy and paste?) to my Group. I'm first to admit that OEM matched tires are most probably(?) better for your bike. But one thing the Factory would NEVER do is mix and match, as for brand loyality and contracts. So experimenting is what I like to do. As for my wanting to change my own front tire from a 100/80 to a 100/90, well I already suggested this to a friend and have mounted and have tried out this combo. (BTW- note to EZ, of course there are matched sets of 100/90 and 120/90 tires by ALL major companies including Dunlop). The result of the 100/90 front is exactly what I was looking for in handling/steering and ride quality. It's for MY personal tastes and riding style and only give an explanation as to why I want it. And Most all you said is Correct Blake. It slows down my steering to the style I like, it also softens up the jolts of pots holes and bumps better. And although ground clearance is not affected much and wasn't my goal, I appreciate the the extra mm's. My friends bike isn't really negatively affected for me/him with both the different size and/or tire brand. He also saved about $30 on the tire and he was the one that asked me if it was ok. I said, try the tire and if you don't like it, I'd buy it off him...He likes it and So do I :-) I'm going to ask for foregiveness and make a plea for Ray German to join my Yahoo Group. You may quit whenever you like. And I'm not a know-it all. I'm just strong willed and opinionated- thats why I've never been married. (Have pity on me guys ;-) I'm going to back down on my posts/comments on this forum, and just do some reading or contribute new info or proven facts (Not my opinions). I hope this will redeem myself ? I have a great deal of respect and admiration for the words and advice of Blake, Ray, Aaron and a few others with as much knowledge/experience -or MORE than I have. I just know what I like and what works for me. Excuse me folks.... | ||
| Anonymous |
The Forum has changed, and I like alot of the new style. And I like the NEW ability for the poster to delete his/her own posts. I guess the attachment feature will ease photo loading too. Nice job guys....oops- didn't mean to voice my opinion :-) | ||
| Edward R. Zick |
I tried posting this last nite but no go - here it is - better late than never - With matching sets everything trys to be simular/complimentary with mixing - differing expansion rates with heat as you ride could/would affect the handling, also very different tread designs could also offer conflict of stearing input. An over simplification on what I've read - but pretty much the correct summation from also comparing articles. I've read tons of articles of Racers mixing tires mostly on the track and a few off - but these are usually people who know the handling characteristics of the tires they use intimately and through their own experimentation have found viable mixes, but for even the experienced street rider its safer to go with the matching set. Got Thump?! Just Blasting on the Dark side! EZ | ||
| Eddie Pierce |
EzBlast, I was at the Knox. Harley/Buell dealer yesterday and asked about the air intake system you spoke of a couple of days ago. They had a picture of the system on a blast from the January show. They said it would be out in June or July. It looked very neat. Tried to order it for my wife's blast but they said I would have to wait a couple of weeks. I will go with the Buell aftermarket header. Eddie and Robin | ||
| Eric Treadway |
Ralph, I have posted afew times in your yahoo group, its just that nobody pays any attention to the post or the reply's I have posted. When I say nobody pays any attention to the replys, I get replys saying sorry to hear you had problems with Crossroads and other crazy things like that. I only own one thing from Crossroads and thats the points cover. I never have posted any problems with that, just they where alittle lazy about finishing it. I felt that if you posted it maybe someone would pay attention. Your apology is accepted this time and if you fill that you have to throw a fit like you did email me don't go making yourself look like an a$$ in here. | ||
| Blake |
Ralph, Coming here, to a sponsor supported site, and pleading for people to join your yahoo site? I thought we had this discussion once already? | ||
| Ezblast  |
Ideas for my next project - I'm thinking modern cafe racer to really reflect differently from my single - streat fighter - lol - with the new intake comming out, a little cam swap, a modern cafe fairing like the Vampyre from England, custom rearsets from xb parts and cust. fabrication, 3"cut down (with inner pipe suport}Laverda Bars - flush signals and folding barend mirrors, ditch some plastic - How does the new Buell pro exhaust look on the Blast? I may just stick with the Bub and go for the Supertrapp for the older Bub. So much cool stuff out there now - thanks Ray for the springs advise just finished installing them - lol - so far so good - now to install a Dial a jet - basically in off position untill a lean condition calls it into play - thus preventing what happened last time. - so I'm thinking;0) Got Thump?! Just Blasting on the Dark side! EZ | ||
| Ezblast |
Thanks Ed for the Intel. - Wow this could be fun!you can change with your moods or color bike your talking aboutor perhaps youdon't feel like really being pushy - or side note\just want to show off http://www.geocities.com/edzick94122/BlastVader-index.html   Still this would be more impresive if my moderator funtions worked - lol  - Got Thump?! Just Blasting on the Dark side! EZ}}} }Moderator note - I'm back in business!;0) (Message edited by ezblast on April 28, 2003) | ||
| Englishman |
So, did anyone chop a Blast yet? Or am I going to be one of the first?  | ||
| Southernmarine  |
Chop it? Whatcha got planned for it? I've seen the Crossroads Bike, but nothing anyone else has done. | ||
| Ezblast |
We talking hard tail frame? - I was thinking maybe one of those single hardtail frames made for the Triumph single may be adaptable - how about a few specifics - how are you mounting the engine - what type of frame - using rubber isolators? - lol - Got Thump?! Just Blasting on the Dark side! EZ    | ||
| Ltlboybuell |
ARGH!! Help! Sorry for posting this here and on Yahoo but I thought some of the more techincal folks here may also have an opinion. Anyone that's been following my recent headaches, that faint noise I thought I heard that I wrote off to maybe having just lugged it that one time , even though I know I didn't, is getting slightly louder and has now moved down the rev band so it's present and just off idle, say 2000rpm, and beyond. The best way to describe it is like the tick you'd get tapping two drumsticks together...kinda hollow but sharp. It doesn't do it unless it's in gear and moving though, ie. under a load. If you have it in neutral and rev it it's not there but it's independent of the drivetrain as once it starts you can pull in the clutch and it is matched to the engine speed. At first I thought maybe my White brothers pipe and developed a leak since it almost sounds like an exhaust tick so I removed the White Brothers and reinstalled the stock muffler so I could remove that possibility. It's still there but now you can hear it much better. Here's another thing I found. I removed the tank so I could get a look down the spark plug hole into the bore. All you can really see is the right hand side of the bore with the angle you're at. BUT, what I saw was weird, the front half of the bore has what you'd expect, a shiny cross hatched pattern, the back half of the bore though has what appear to be dark brown/black vertical striations that are perfectly delimited from the front half. I was thinking that maybe this is due to the thrust angle of the piston and is nothing to worry about (the forward trust angle gets a better wipe against the front half of the bore). Help? Any opinions? I wanna have some coherent thoughts before I take it to the dealer. | ||
| Ltlboybuell |
P.S. It's not jetted lean and there isn't obvious metal in the oil if that matters. Lifter gone south? Bad/burnt valve? Bad spring? Ughhh, I wish I remembered all my engine theory | ||
| Dynarider |
Spooky, I usually dont even read this section but I was bored so figured..what the hell.. Anyways last yr at Suburban Harley in Thiensville WI they had a Blast with a weird prototype exhaust they were trying out. Basically it was just a long pipe maybe 40-45" long that ran along the side of the bike & ended with a supertrapp muffler on it. It wasnt built for looks but simply to see if it made any more power. Talking to the guys there it didnt appear to do a damn thing. Didnt sound any different than any other system either. | ||
| Ezblast |
Partially pumped up lifter 0r loose primary chain, perhaps other things that are worse but those are the two esp. the chain that I would check out first - see the specifics section for adjustment. Also valve not seating right or misadjusted pushrod - Got Thump?! Just Blasting on the Dark side! EZ (Message edited by ezblast on April 28, 2003) | ||
| Dynarider |
Found a pic of it, scanner is on the fritz so had to take a pic of a pic And I was wrong, it was a white bros muffler not a supercrap. (Message edited by dynarider on April 27, 2003) | ||
| Dynarider |
Ok, now I cant post a pic for some damn reason. Aww screw it, cant get anything to work now. Will try later. (Message edited by dynarider on April 27, 2003) | ||
| Dynarider |
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| Dynarider |
Wouldnt let me post a pic any bigger, really had to shrink that one down a lot. Blake whats up with that? | ||
| Blake |
Well, the above pic, though small in size is over 49KB. The BBS won't allow any pics larger than 50KB. You knew that. Get the http://www.xat.com JPEG Optimizer or Image Optimizer. Your pic above is a great example. Here it is again significantly compressed (less than half original size) by xat.com's Image Optimizer.  (Message edited by blake on April 27, 2003) | ||
| Ezblast |
I heard you had to run something like 24 discs to get that bit extra - how many was this one running - and was it running the torque cone - heard recomended not to esp. if your going into high rpm range. Got thump?! Just Blasting on the Dark side! EZ | ||
| Dynarider |
Dont know how many discs or if the torque cone was in. Looking at my actual pic there appears to be about 1.25" worth of discs hanging out. Dont know what that works out to. It was definately weird looking tho. But nowhere near as odd as the hillclimbing X1 they built with the underseat exhaust...that thing was BADASS!! They fired it up & hit the dirt out back...thing was sending roostertails of dirt 50' in the air. Loudest Buell I have ever heard too. It was louder than Cicottos XB. |
