| Author | Message | ||
     Nytrashman |
over the winter i would like to do a little work on the top end of my motor. i was thinking of getting the NRHS stage two head work done to my stock Blast head and while i have it apart adding the Buell Pro-Series cam kit. one thing i want is to keep the reliablility of my bike, while at the same time boost the power a bit. i am confident i will have no problems removing/installing the head but i have never done anything involving the instalation or removal of cams. is this going to be very diffacult or is it fairly straight forward? if for whatever reasons i do not feel comfortable doing the cams can i just instal the reworked head and still see an increase in power? are there any special tools i will need to remove/instal the new cams? once the head work and new cams are installed will my goal of boosting power but retaining reliability be achived or will i be sacraficing reliability for the increase in power? what parts in addition to the head & cams will i need before reassembiling everything? i would imagine i would need a rocker box gasket and head gasket but i am not sure what else i would need. i'd love to hear everyones advice & opinions on this so tell me the good & bad of it. thanks George | ||
| Swampy |
It is not a problem to remove or install the cams. There is a special tool used to hold the crankshaft to torque the crank nut, I have one. Cams depending on what you get will make a difference as to where power comes on. Lift and duration of the cams is limited by the stock valve spring and valve guide configuration. | ||
| Buellistic |
Swampy: Are you saying the valve guides too long on the valve spring side ??? Why in the world would anyone pit cams in that you have to rev 5K to 6K to stay on cam when with the stock BLAST gearing we ride in the 3K to 4K range ??? IMHO 1.75 to 1 rocker arms are the answer ... Very easy to install keeping the stock cams, valve springs and ignition module(rev limiter 6500RPM)... Puts the "TORQUE(grunt)" where we ride(RPM) ... In BLASTing LaFayette | ||
| Ezblast |
If your getting stage 2 head work done then step up to either the SE550 cam or the B70 cam, its a waste of money on the head work otherwise to see their potential realized. Also I would invest in a high comp piston as well. GT - JBOTDS! EZ  | ||
| Swampy |
Yes, don't forget the 1.75 ratio rockers. Just like everything else, you just have to be careful on valve/piston interference, spring bind, and spring keeper to valve guide interference. While you have the head off you can mock up the valve train and check for fit and clearances. | ||
| Ezblast |
I would only use the ratio rockers if I was running the B50 - for the others that may be too much lift! From Ralph - lol Ed, you guys didn't answer his question fully, he asked what stuff he needs, and you guys forget to say a FULL top end gasket set- as when he pulls the head- he also has to pull the cylinder and install a NEW base gasket ! So tell him he also needs a ring compressor for the piston as well. btw, please tell the Nytrashman than his bike has been on the cover of the Yahoo blast group for a few days, and that peeps have been asking about his Givi fairing, ...thanks. That was good info to add - so I did! GT - JBOTDS! EZ | ||
| Nytrashman |
if i get a stage 2 head from NRHS, differant cam/rockers & high comp piston what effect will this have on reliability compared to stock? | ||
| Ezblast |
Really depends on the cam - and how hard you ride that puppy;0) - a SE550 is a stock XB style cam, bolts right in and has a good and steady ramp - so such a combo would last probably as long as a stocker, but it won't because you'll be getting on it a lot more and be having a world more fun on it, thus lessoning the life span;0) The B70 cam is a classic street/strip cam, and so is a little rougher on the driveline, probably minuses 20% of the engines life by itself - not counting all the hoodlum riding and the fun kick at 4000 rpms that you'll launch at when lite to lite drag racing - lol - the B50 cam by itself just cleans up acceleration, no real power gains there - perhaps a pony or two most, just a better curve and feel to the motor - the cam the bike should have come with in its current stock form. GT - JBOTDS! EZ | ||
| Buellistic |
Nytrashman: The FIRST THING you do is get a FACTORY SERVICE MANUAL and PARTS BOOK for the your YEAR and Model !!! THEN READ THEM !!! Then do your thing ... In BLASTing LaFayette (Message edited by buellistic on November 14, 2006) | ||
| Nytrashman |
i have a service manual, i was just asking for opinions and advice on a planned modification i may or may not do. i do appreciate the time you took to answer my questions though. | ||
| Nytrashman |
ok plan B: stage 1 head work from NRHS and the Buell Pro-Series cam kit. i believe this will give me a modest increase in HP and if i understand everything correctly this should be a simple bolt in installation. i really would like to retain as much reliability as possiable while adding a bit more power to my bike. i believe this is a good compromise between power & reliability. i also think by going with my original idea (stage 2/differant cams/1.75 rockers/high comp piston) i am getting in over my head. anyone have any idea how much of an increase in HP/performance i can expect going with plan B? | ||
| Ezblast |
Still get the high comp piston - gain - perhaps 5 hp. GT - JBOTDS! EZ | ||
| Nytrashman |
EZ....i have never removed/installed a piston and as much as i would like to go with a high compression piston i am not sure about doing it myself. i think if i were to go with a high comp piston then i might as well go for the 515 big bore kit as well and again that is not something i am sure i can or want to do. with that being said, i have to say that i grew up in a garage (my father owned two) and have installed clutches, trannies, water pumps and various other repairs on many differant vehicles. i just have really never done much work on bikes before so this is all new to me. with no one near by to turn to in case i screw up i am a bit hessitant to get into something i have never done before. | ||
| Ezblast |
If you do the head, you have to do the base gasket as well, so you'll need a ring compressor as well - as Ralph said - no way around it, so might as well do the piston, or the basic 515 kit - your call. As long as you don't rush anything, and you have all winter so don't rush - I figure you'll be fine - any questions should be answerable here - this has got to be the easiest engine to rebuild outside of a lawn mower - lol GT - JBOTDS! EZ | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
Pistons are as easy or easier than everything else you've done. There isnt anything that you've talked about that is going to greatly reduce the reliability of your bike. Remember an XB9 is a V-twin Blast with SE 550 cams, a 7500rpm redline, 10:1 compression and more than twice the power. So until you've modified your Blast past those specs, you've not much to worry about. My opinion is that if your going to do the head then go at least stage 2. Lets also not forget (Buellistic) that the twins can run great at 3-4k rpm, but you'll be lugging the Blast at those rpms performancewise. If you want performance, you'll be running it up to redline (unless your goal is a sidecar or 2 up performance). The Blast comes alive with that extra 1000 rpm! When you decide exactly what you're going to do, we'll make sure you get all the parts, gaskets,help and tools you need. PS talk to the people selling you the headwork and cams about what your goals are. They are the best to recommend what works together,But they are not the final word. | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
"There is a special tool used to hold the crankshaft to torque the crank nut, I have one. " Swampy-why will he need this tool? | ||
| Swampy |
I remember now, the cams come out without removing the crank gear! But you need it to replace the oil pump drive gear to update it to the high performance one. LOL! | ||
| Ezblast |
Swampy - where can you get said tool - lol GT - JBOTDS! EZ | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
I thought the 2005 came with the updated gear, but it doesnt. I do think you can get away without using the tool though(and pulling the primary cover off). | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
NYT-man: I think the stage 2 head with B50(Pro Series) cams and 10.5:1 piston would be a nice set up. Making sure the valve springs will take a 7500-8000 rpm limit. You can add the ignition module later. MMelvis I believe (see racing section) has a similar set up (done by one of our sponsors I think) and seems very happy with it (I'm sure he'd be happy to tell you about it). As per my usual, I'd also recommend getting the adjustable pushrods, tubes and Jims lifters to complete the set up (and of course the updated oil pump drive gear). | ||
| Gearheaderiko |
PS you can still add those high lift rockers later, if you really want to. | ||
| Nytrashman |
thanks for all the advice, i really appreciate it. i think i will attempt to instal a stage 2 head ($525) along with the basic 515cc big bore kit ($375) and the Pro-Series cams ($200) on my bike. will this move the power band high up into the RPM range or will i still have low end torque and driveability like i have now? as much as i would like to take my time over the winter to do this here lies the problem. my garage is not heated and it gets damn cold here in the NE in the winter so i plan on getting everything i need to complete this project and then one day while my wife is out i will roll the bike into the living room and do the work there. which do you think will be worse, doing the actuall work or the ear beating i am sure to recieve when she comes home and finds my bike in pieces in the living room? Gearheaderiko: i see in your profile your favorite road to ride is over in Bear Mtn NY. that is right across the river from me (10-15 min) and since i am off today and the weather is going to be in the low 60's so i think i will take a ride over there, perhaps up to Perkins Dr. and then maybe up Rt. 9W to West Point. (Message edited by nytrashman on November 15, 2006) | ||
| Mabueller |
... then one day while my wife is out i will roll the bike into the living room and do the work there. I find sending her on a weekend visit to her parents eliminates a lot of explaining and threatening noise ... . | ||
| Ezblast |
On your cam choice - get either the B70 or SE550 instead - especially since your going with stage 2 heads - you won't regret it and your power range will still be street able - especially with the SE550 cam, which though adds performance is as gentle as stock on the motor. GT - JBOTDS! EZ | ||
| Mabueller |
Is there any value in just upgrading the cam to a B50/B70/SE550 without doing anything else? | ||
| Ezblast |
You could only do the B50 - the rest would need upgrades to the head - the B50 is the cam the bike should have come with - acceleration is much improved, no lagging, or flat spots - a very nice improvement over stock, even if it only adds a pony or two at most, it still makes the most of what the stock engine has to offer. GT - JBOTDS! EZ | ||
| Buellistic |
Mabueller and BLASTers: If you put a BETTER CAM in, it will require more RPM's to get the performance you want to get ... Now you need a new IGINATION MODULE so you can REV to the MORE RPM's ... Now that you can REV to higher RPM's you need stronger VALVE SPRINGS so the valve system will follow the cam and not float ... Now you need LARGER VALVES and FLOWED PORTS to get the MAX. out of the CAM, IGN., VALVE SPRINGS ... Now these componets are between the CARBUATOR and the EXHAUST SYSTEM ... So if you do not Up-Grade these they hold back the componentes in between ... That means the CARB. has to be JETED correctly by use of a FUEL/AIR GUAGE or on a DYNO ... Anybody think about boring out the stock carb. or just putting on a larger one ??? That means the EXHAUST SYSTEM has to be more FREE FLOWING which means the db level goes up beyond LEGAL LIMITS ... DOES ANYONE EVER THINK ABOUT WHAT THE CORRECT IGNITION TIMING SHOULD BE ??? Should "i" say INDEX SPARK PLUG or maybe what is the best PLUG GAP with a stock ignition ... You did get a better IGN. MODULE which allows you to REV HIGHER ... Thought about the PLUG WIRE or IGN. COIL ??? What about a "BIG BORE KIT", remember you cann't BEAT CUBIC INCHES(if you think JAP, Revolutions Per Minute(RPM's) ... Stronger BELT or go to a chain ??? Better tires so you can do WOT(ie: Top End) Well BUELLers "i" avoid all the above "BUELLschitte" ... "i" just take what comes off the SHOW ROOM FLOOR and see just what can be gotten out the engine by PRODUCT IMPROVING(improvising) it ... Try not to speed anymore $$$.$$ than "i" have to and it is a LOT of "FUN" doing it !!! In BLASTing LaFayette (Message edited by buellistic on November 15, 2006) | ||
| Nytrashman |
plan C: stage 1 head work from NRHS & B50 cams. i believe this will give me the slight increase in power i am looking for while retaining reliability. i do not believe i will need a base gasket, only a rocker box gasket & head gasket...correct? removing and installing the head should be no problem, the cams a bit more difficult but still do-able. i think i would prefer to stay away from installing a high comp piston at this point. i do not want to get too far in over my head, mechanically speaking that is. my better half says i should just send the parts out and have a local shop do the work, but i do not want to do that. i would prefer to do the work myself (in my living room) so i not only learn more about my bike but at the same time build up my confidence so i can tackle larger projects (big bore kit???) at a latter date. as always advice & opinions are appreciated. George | ||
| Ezblast |
No - a base gasket is needed also, you will have to remove the cyl to put said gasket on also, sorry, that means at the least a ring-compressor using the existing piston. GT - JBOTDS! EZ | ||
| Mabueller |
NYT, If you are going with Stage 1 head work wouldn't it make sense to have them upgrade your springs at the same time (since they have to put springs back anyway) so you if you wanted, you could add a new ignition to get higher rev's as a future upgrade option without taking the head off again? Also, did they tell you what the turn around time for this service is? |
