| Author | Message | |||
     Jprovo |
DiabloBrian: Check out those two pictures. Other than the idler sprocket adapter, a Firebolt head, and some revised engine mount links, it's a bolt up deal. Really not that tough a project. I take back all I said before about converting an XB engine to make it a single... | |||
| Jprovo |
Naustin: I think that it's a wash, or migh actually be a bit heavier, but as far as I know, Jim didn't weigh it. I'll have to find out. A stock Firebolt is 385 lbs, Stock Blast is 360 Lbs. I'm guessing that you can taks almost as much weight race prepping an XB as a Blast, maybe 5 lbs less. So the weight difference is like 25-30 Lbs for race prepped machines. Take out a cylinder, head, piston, rocker box, half of the header, two cams, Con rod, two lifters and pushrods, ECU... I can see all that adding up to make up most of the difference. It probably weighs 5-10 Lbs more than Erik's Blast. edited to fix speeling and add a comment) (Message edited by jprovo on April 18, 2006) | |||
| Ezblast |
Maybe lighter - due to the things you mentioned plus all that airbox stuff being history as well - lol - the whole thing if set up for the street would weigh the same or lighter than the current Blast. GT - JBOTDS! EZ  | |||
| Naustin |
So, it weights more and has to run in the formula class.... I don't see the point... Wouldn't it get whooped in the formula class? I mean. It's neat and everything... But if you're racing a blast, why not race the BLAST in the production class. If you wanna race formula singles, why not get a rotax motor and build a custom lightweight frame and actually compete out there? | |||
| Jprovo |
Jim finished 3rd out of seven competitors in Formula Singles. Jim is also about 5 seconds per lap faster on the FireBlast than he was on the Stock framed Blast, and that was with a 500 motor. He's talking about making the motor bigger, and getting more power out of it, so he should be more competitive in F-Singles as the season goes on. I dunno, He likes the Bike, and he goes pretty good on it. Jim really doen't like how small the stock Blast is, or how it handles, so he did something about it. I really can't criticise that, but if he races it in 500 production again, he will be protested. | |||
| Matty |
Naustin, James, The XBlast is lighter than the Blast, so it's a win/win situation - better chassis and less wieght. The frame is lighter, the wheels are lighter, you name it - it's lighter. Good to hear Jim's kickin bootie in Formula Singles, but that bike shouldn't be running in 500 singles - that's fishing in a barrel. THe Formula rules let us take the motor to 660, so he should use that to his advantage and build that thing up. Even at 500, it's competitive with Jim on it, so there's no need to jump ship to Rotax or whatever. The point is use what you got and have fun doing something new. (Message edited by matty on April 18, 2006) | |||
| Ezblast |
I knew it was lighter - I did the math long ago on that topic - lol GT - JBOTDS! EZ | |||
| Naustin |
No doubt the XBlast  is cool. But I thought the formula singles class would be full of more high-test bikes. 70HP rotax machines and the like....But, I guess this isn't the pro-circuit, and if it can take 3rd then I'm all for it... What the hell is so heavy on a Blast? I can't believe that the xb frame with that huge aluminum spar/fuel tank is lighter than the virtually non-existent Blast frame. (less the stock peg hangers) I can see the stock Blast wheels being heavier than the XB wheels though... Those babies are a little chunky. (Message edited by naustin on April 18, 2006) | |||
| Jprovo |
I'm not suprised it's lighter. I was a little peeved that he ran it in 500 singles, but I didn't protest him because he probably would have beat me on a Stock-framed Blast. Next month, the Ascott boys will not be having any of that. By the way, you can make the Blast motor as big as we want if F-Singles: Formula Singles 1. Four-stroke singles, with unlimited displacement, configuration, modification and fuel. James (I doubt that the XB tires are lighter than the Blasts ) (Message edited by jprovo on April 18, 2006) | |||
| Matty |
When the fast guys show up for the Formula Singles there are some blazing fast bikes out there that do push the 70hp range. Fortunately for us they only seem to come out during the warmer months =) James, good catch on the rules - now go build one! | |||
| Xgecko |
Japan has a farm class called GP Mono, it's based on the mating of a 4stroke 250MX engine and a GP125 chassis...I watched it at Motegi and was in awe of the corner speed...they barely rolled off the throttle though most turns. I would love to have a street legal version with say a Yamaha WR250F or better yet a WR450F | |||
| Jprovo |
Tony, Check these guys out: http://www.tigcraft.com/ James | |||
| Xgecko |
yeah I've seen those but they are track only where as the kit bikes in Japan are streetlegal. Kit= new fork, rear swingarm, clip ons, gas tank and a bodykit. a full lighting kit can be had for relativly cheap and because the donor is bike already setup for lights easy. Sadly bikes of this type are not common here in the states. | |||
| Pressureangle |
Oh boy. I just got off the phone with Ron at RHC. I didn't know that the blast uses the same head as a sportster...He's already done a jillion hours of development work, and did a blast head for somebody who destroked it to 350 and set a record at Bonneville. He says that 60rwhp is realistic for a 500cc blast. Anybody got numbers for theirs? | |||
| Ezblast |
Best I know of from both Ray and Aaron - both netted around 53 hp, 37 ftlbs - both where also for the Salt using displacements of 492 and 515 - ray's was for sidecar applications and Aarons was to let his daughter play while he set records with his twins - lol Terry Parson plans to net at least 70hp with his 650 Blast - we'll see - gearing screwed him before with the 600cc - he figured he'd go all out this year with the max single 650cc records - he works at Valejo HD/Buell - you could always call him for spec info - hes a great guy and really into it! GT - JBOTDS! EZ | |||
| Naustin |
60rwhp....  | |||
| Jprovo |
Th Blast head is NOT a Sportster Head... It's it's own unique animal... Ok, it's Sportsterish... I think Ron is being a bit optomistic, a 60 RWHP 500cc Blast engine is going to be a time bomb. Of course, I'd love to be proven wrong... | |||
| Ezblast |
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| Sarodude |
I think the Blast's head is a Lightning head in terms of ports, valves, combustion chamber... Externally, it's unique due to the way it mounts up. -Saro | |||
| Pressureangle |
I think Ron is being a bit optomistic, a 60 RWHP 500cc Blast engine is going to be a time bomb. Of course, I'd love to be proven wrong... We built a 96" shovelhead with factory cases, heads, and evo con rods that made 113rwhp and had 100 ft-lbs @ 1700rpm to boot...It never broke. I won a lot of bets from some very knowledgeable H-D guys with that bike...not to mention from plenty of rice rocket riders. Ron's 60 horse blast would be as reliable as any other and have more torque to boot than you'd believe. The head will just move more air. Of course, somebody's gonna have to pony up a blast head so I can twist his arm... Anybody live/race in south Florida? | |||
| Jprovo |
As my friends from Missouri say: "Show-Me" I have no doubts that Ron is a great tuner that has made some great stuff. I look forward to seeing your 60 HP 500cc Blast. | |||
| Ezblast |
I'd love to see it! GT - JBOTDS! EZ | |||
| Naustin |
I believe it might be done. I just don't know if it can be done cheap, or made reliable for everyday street use. How many rwhp can i buy for $1000 - parts/labor all included? PS - Mmelvis lives/races in FL. And he was talking about adding some power lately if I remember right... | |||
| Pressureangle |
I believe it might be done. I just don't know if it can be done cheap, or made reliable for everyday street use. Everyday street use? Depends on you. Cheap? You're kidding, right? I thought we are talking about race bikes. Here's a link to the dyno sheet from my shovel-look not only at the peak (which was improved subsequent to this run) but look at the curve. This motor only had 10.5:1 compression. The secret to a good motor, race or street, is not the peak but the curve-Ron's heads breathe so much better than anyone else's across the lift curve that he can make more power throughout without extreme compression and camshafts. Hey, I don't want this to turn into a commercial for RHC and I know I don't have any credibility with blasts; but I've seen enough high-end portwork to know that if anyone's better they're deep in the bowels of an F1 team or OEM skunkworks. His motocross/S.Motard engines are already better than the Honda and KTM factories. http://www.rollingthunderdyno.com/bigdogs/over100hp/lacruze.html} I'm on the job, in any case.  | |||
| Ezblast |
Does RHC have a link or net contact - am always curious and always willing to learn more. GT - JBOTDS! EZ | |||
| Pressureangle |
How many rwhp can i buy for $1000 - parts/labor all included? I have no idea how much cams, pistons, intakes, exhausts etc. cost for Blasts, but I spoke with Ron and he said a big valve/ port job would be $450. If you wanted to get real serious, welding in the combustion chamber, custom piston tops, etc then it would naturally be a lot more. The Lightning heads (as I recall the early ones) were based on a RHC combustion chamber design anyway, so it's not as necessary to change as with other H-D heads. I know that for a 'stock'(production racer) 883, Ron's heads made 6-7% more hp, and we were allowed no modifications beyond the valve seat itself, and valve head angles. What's stock compression ratio? Are blasts dual plugged stock? Gawd I hate being ignorant. | |||
| Ezblast |
Stock - 9.2 single plug
This should help - lol GT - JBOTDS! EZ | |||
| Pressureangle |
Duh. RHC Racing http://www.ronhamp.com/ So a stocker could certainly benefit from the port job, but probably more bang for buck with piston and cams first. Add dual plugging to the port job, too. | |||
| Ezblast |
Dyno tests with dual plugs have shown no advantage - so what would be the advantage? Thank you for the link - I'm on it! GT - JBOTDS! EZ | |||
| Sarodude |
EZ- I'm gonna take a stab in the dark on the dual plug issue... I'm gonna GUESS that merely dual plugging an otherwise proper head isn't gonna show much. However, a head designed around dual plugging and its improved combustion control may change the picture. I guess what I'm saying is that a fairer comparison would be to allow a builder to build the best single plug motor with a given set of requirements (93 octane, 7500 rpm max, etc) and have the best dual plug motor built with the same requirements. Or it may not make a difference... -Saro |
