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Mark61
| | Posted on Sunday, March 01, 2009 - 08:24 am: | 
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Hard to be a good customer when the nearest real Buell dealer is 3 hour plus drive in one direction.
mark61 |
Buell920
| | Posted on Monday, March 02, 2009 - 07:44 pm: |
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So the request for Buell to open an independent shop has been brought up so many times some are almost tired of it. But what would take to open the first shop? Many say large unit sales, other say it would need a lot of product, some say build it and they will come.
Not to discredit any of them but all fall short in several ways. Let’s look at the unit sales, yes Buell would need to have more unit sales to support a shop but that’s only if it were to survive on unit sales. This can be tossed out because many aftermarket shops survive on service and parts. Others say parts and service could support it, again it falls back on needing unit sales to support a market for service and parts. So how could Buell possibly pull this off with limited units, parts, appeal, and accessories?
I have pondered this very question for several years and feel I have a solution. First let’s get a little info about who I am and why I feel what I have is a good solution.
I am 31 years old and have been in the H-D field for fourteen years and counting. I first came across a Buell while I was working at a dealership in central PA. I was racing motocross and doing rather well (getting ready to point out of the “A” class into pro) but needed to start looking for a career. As time rolled on I moved from service to parts, sales, a short stint in motorcloths, and settled into service writing for a while until I moved into service manager. I moved to Baltimore and was the service manager there until returning to school for a masters in mechanical engineering. I have had the opportunity to work with a couple dealers in refining there service departments, starting a SRL, and various other ways. So on to the point.
I think the first Buell Dealership will need an owner that, for the most part, has very little say in the operation of the dealership. This will take a person that can set back listen, follow through, think past the current day.
The location will need to be in the north east so there are more Buell style roads available for test rides. Also there are a fair amount of race tracks, summit point, VIR, Pocono, along with some smaller ones.
This first dealership will be a fake(you had to look hard to see the word didn't you. same follows here). What I mean is, from the outside (customer point of view) it will be a fully functional dealer. A person can walk into and buy a bike, parts, and clothing. From the inside it will be a training facility for Buell parts personnel, technicians, sales personnel, motorcloths personnel, and service writers. Currently H-D as a program called HDU or better known as Harley Davidson University. It’s a traveling type of school, where the dealer sends there people to a motel, for 3-4 days, where they sit in a class room for 5-6 hours a day and listen to people who have been there and done that. (sometimes think they have but really haven’t) I admit its fun and the drinking at night at the bar got a little wild at times but none the less. This has produced the staff you see in dealers today. Not that it’s a bad program but it seems to be a little overrated based on the results I have seen firsthand.
The first Buell Shop could be a place where the staff is taught the correct ways to perform everyday functions in their jobs. There would be a small amount of permanent staff but mostly comprised of students from around the world. Each student would spend 4 weeks there under constant supervision buy a representative from the motor company. During the time there were no customer bikes they would have test bikes (like the ones they have in HDU now) to take apart and reassemble. Sales people would be taught about the competition bikes and what truly makes Buell different. Parts people would learn the # system behind Buell’s parts and how to properly ask questions, look up parts, placing orders, dealer search, all the things they need to do. The technicians would gain the most. They would learn the proper way to perform all test procedures( not guess) to pinpoint a problem, proper documentation on RO’s, how to test ride a bike and not just ride it around the block, and so on.
This type of dealership could do great things for Buell and H-D. I could expand on this for hours but I need to study Chemistry and Statics for a test this week.
Comments are welcome but replies will be slow, generally by the end of the next day. I have 18 credits this semester so please forgive my delay.
Scott
(Message edited by buell920 on March 02, 2009) |
Daves
| | Posted on Monday, March 02, 2009 - 09:46 pm: |
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Or,
They could award the Buell only stand alone dealerships to those few that have proven they know how to do it.
Help with the financing of the venture, Give support that is needed/wanted but basically stay the hell out of the way of the people that have already "been there, done that" and excelled at it.
I can think of several such qualified people. None have the big $$ or even the desire to own a HD dealership but could make a Buell only dealership ROCK.
Too bad neither your or my idea will happen.
HD is stuck on the "you have to be a HD dealer to have a Buell dealership" plan. |
Court
| | Posted on Monday, March 02, 2009 - 10:16 pm: |
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>>>>HD is stuck on the "you have to be a HD dealer to have a Buell dealership" plan.
That's an accurate statement. It is a legal provision of the dealer contract.
The real shame of this is that there are a number of dealers, in my personal opinion, who may be holding onto their Buell franchise just to keep someone else from having it.
If we could do one, I'd be happy to put up the bucks, have DaveS handles sales, Al Lighton Parts and Moose service.
It's probably have to be in PA . . . . ever wonder why there are more HD dealers in PA than any other state? |
Moxnix
| | Posted on Monday, March 02, 2009 - 10:25 pm: |
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Does it by default make there more Buell dealers?
(Message edited by moxnix on March 03, 2009) |
Buell920
| | Posted on Monday, March 02, 2009 - 10:27 pm: |
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O.K but do they have to be in the same building, or just located at the same residence? there is always a little room to play it just takes a creative person to find a new way to do things. |
Court
| | Posted on Monday, March 02, 2009 - 11:02 pm: |
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>>>it just takes a creative person to find a new way to do things.
And an excellent attorney.
I don't have a copy of the current SRO agreement but (from the contract I have) they did not have to be in the same building but there were some constraints. |
Jjr1125
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 03, 2009 - 05:53 am: |
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Can we identify those constraints in a public forum? |
Court
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 03, 2009 - 06:46 am: |
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>>>Can we identify those constraints in a public forum?
The SRO constraints? Sure, go to your dealer and ask them to make you a copy of their contract, scan it and post it. |
Moxnix
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 03, 2009 - 08:42 pm: |
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All retailers understand it is more efficient and effective to sell to a large group of prospective customers in a single metro area. Only MalWart has succeeded with a reverse game plan. If only H-D franchises also get the opp to be Buell franshisees, we only have the choice of finding the one who most appreciates the brand, offers good service, fast parts, etc.
Owning a Buell hours away from a dealer is a matter of dollarizing the intangibles of ownership. I've owned Guzzis in the past, but St. Louis currently has no dealer. Closest in the state is 2 hours away. I'd still buy the right Guzzi and live with the arrangement. That beats the constraint of not having one. |
Court
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 04, 2009 - 10:59 am: |
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>>>All retailers understand it is more efficient and effective to sell to a large group of prospective customers in a single metro area.
Explain why Topeka, KS sells more Buells than New York City. |
Moxnix
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 04, 2009 - 05:12 pm: |
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There's always the exception that proves the rule.
The Midwest is a very important Buell market.
Tiffany's is in Manhattan, NY, not Manhattan, KS.
Non-Hog people in NY ride Indian made copies of old Italian scooters. Motorcycles are considered low brow by the carriage trade.
Perhaps Buell needs a Plan B, with shops scattered throughout the backwater hinterlands outside the range of the H-D dealers network. And develop a nifty ATV for hunters.
(Message edited by moxnix on March 04, 2009)
(Message edited by moxnix on March 05, 2009) |
Crackhead
| | Posted on Thursday, March 05, 2009 - 07:19 am: |
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HD needs to buy or allow Buell to build dirt bikes have our own verson of import shops with a big a$$ american flag out front. 
and a big "Built in the USA" sign on the font of the building.
I hope the 1125r clean the podium at the Datona 200. it would boost sales greatly. |
Buell920
| | Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 09:40 am: |
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>>And an excellent attorney.
nope, just a excellent owner. there is plenty of room in there contracts to play. most of there attention is focused on what they currently see though. sad that none will admit it!
(Message edited by buell920 on March 06, 2009) |
Court
| | Posted on Friday, March 06, 2009 - 02:39 pm: |
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>>>there is plenty of room in there contracts to play.
I'd sure want to have the excellent attorney. I, if it were my $2,000,000 bond at stake, would not risk forfeiture.
But you may have a tougher stomach for risk than I. |
Buell920
| | Posted on Saturday, March 07, 2009 - 02:07 pm: |
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could a dealer sell a bike/clothing to a aftermarket shop, business, company? (yes)
if a customer was interested in a new Buell it could be sold to to the other shop then a owner transfer could take place ASAP. warranty follows the bike only, not the owner. most of the bikes on it's floor would be used but new ones could be just up the road.
H-D may not like that but there would be no breech of contract. |
Court
| | Posted on Saturday, March 07, 2009 - 03:06 pm: |
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>>>H-D may not like that but there would be no breech of contract.
Indeed their would. |
Buell920
| | Posted on Sunday, March 08, 2009 - 08:23 am: |
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>>Indeed their would
Aaaaahhh, your ever famous simple answers that are backed by nothing, yet satisfy many.
please tell me how this would be.
Scott |
03firebolt
| | Posted on Monday, March 16, 2009 - 11:54 am: |
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Shelly Rossmeyer's at Destination Daytona is a Buell stand alone shop. I guess it might be on the same piece of property, but it is still a different building. The old Arlen Ness store now houses the Buells, Ducatis, Triumphs. The Hardly shop doesnt carry the clothes, parts, bikes, not even stickers. you can now just go across the street to her place.
(Message edited by 03firebolt on March 16, 2009) |
Buell920
| | Posted on Monday, March 16, 2009 - 01:48 pm: |
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Yup! again, there is plenty of r o o m to play, there are ways around there contracts that are written like swiss cheese. |
Court
| | Posted on Monday, March 16, 2009 - 06:20 pm: |
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Scott:
Two questions:
- Have you ever read a Buell Dealer Contract?
- Have you ever read the SRO?
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Court
| | Posted on Monday, March 16, 2009 - 06:22 pm: |
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By the way . . Shelly's Dad . . Mr. Bruce Rossmeyer . . . owns the store and properly operates it under the terms of the SRO, |
Buell920
| | Posted on Monday, March 16, 2009 - 08:35 pm: |
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um Yes and Yes, there are a lot of do's but a hole lot of DO NOT. the point is there is room to play with much of what they REQUIRE and how they base your unit allotment. one could get lost for days in the rederic of what you need to do, and how, for a given dealership. but it still remains that many dealers have the land, storage buildings, "addition option" in there contracts ...... but so many of them still focus on tomorrow's sales. as much as H-D say they will not follow the automotive field they sure have cloned it's limitations of what a dealer can do with it's facility/ies.
Back to the original point. if a store like RH-D would contract with HDU to use it as a school it may open up a new set of eyes on what will happen with a stand alone store.
this will come to pass but only by a single person not listening to others say "have you read the black and white" BS that has held evolution and design back for so many years.
Court, you have been in this longer than I, some of things you have done had a great impact on Buell, but lately it seems your content or rather not willing to let it all hang out on the line like you used to. if I'm wrong, I am truly sorry.
Scott |
Court
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 17, 2009 - 06:48 am: |
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>>>but lately it seems your content or rather not willing to let it all hang out on the line like you used to
If "letting it all hang out" means being dishonest and intentionally violating the dealer contract, you are absolutely right, I'm out of that.
No one is better than I at bending the rules but being dishonest is another matter.
In addition, having read the contact, you know the consequences and I'm sure (particularly following the 1996 law suit) no dealer is going to take such a foolish risk.
Seems you and I simply approach problem solving from varying perspectives of personal integrity. |
Buell920
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 17, 2009 - 09:01 am: |
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>>No one is better than I at bending the rules but being dishonest is another matter.
dishonest and duplicity are of different natures, neither of which I would engage in. selling a unit to another shop with the intent for them to sell it has not been specifically, nor clearly defined, in any of the four different contract I have read. it has addressed the amount you could sell but not the intent. if a Buell shop were to sprout up and do such a thing it may cause a little commotion with some backlashing, much like some companies using a styled Bar and Shield.
once again I need to clarify my standing. I think Buell and H-D need to get the first dealership off and running as a joint effort, but with it's intent to be a training facility with the owner having a clear view of why it has been allowed to open up. I am not looking for a way around, only a way through so the dealers cannot once again sue H-D for breach of contract. |
Court
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 17, 2009 - 10:02 am: |
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>>>if a Buell shop were to sprout up and do such a thing it may cause a little commotion
Actually it caused a major law suit and a cease and desist against one of the largest dealers in the world. |
Malott442
| | Posted on Saturday, March 21, 2009 - 09:19 am: |
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Which dealer? I'd like to do some homework and read up....... I've been reading up and getting progressively more interested in this thread over the past few months....
Of course only after having my dreams smashed by the 1125r/cr's insurance premiums, I now am considering an XB as a daily workhorse, so the 955i can get a rest after 40k miles of torture. Those thoughts got the wheels turning, and I started quoting every motorcycle out there that I could drag myself to ride. What did I find out? The buell air cooled line are the cheapest bikes to insure over 50bhp.
Examples:
in 02703 (MA)
Me, 27 yrs old, no claims, no tickets. Rates are for a year, paid in full. 250 dollar deductibles, roadside assistance.
1998 S1W 384
2001 X1 384
2008 XB12R 430
2008 XB12S 430
2008 1125R 3200
2008 1125CR 3200
2002 955iCE 2600
2005 CBR600RR 2850
2008 CBR1000RR 4000
2009 XLCH1200 400
My list is longer, and the prices are rounded up or down to 10. Except the tubers. Now with all these young riders out there who want sportbikes, they are a huge market that Buell could pick up with the right nudge. And what better nudge is one directed at the wallet? Most financers require full coverage. Full coverage on a sportbike is more costly than the loan. Except Buell of course! If only we could find away around the "I have a faster bike" machismo that surrounds the 19-25 bracket that sells the big 4's bikes so well.
I've got more to say, but I'm going to bite my tongue, because in my current state of physical exhaustion I can only get more arrogant and sexist from here  . |
Court
| | Posted on Saturday, March 21, 2009 - 03:17 pm: |
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Insurance is a tough thing to compare simply because you need to look at the total picture. Being under 25 or 27 makes a huge difference.
It also makes a difference as to the nature of your coverage. I use the largest deductible I can get. I could care less about a $10,000 repair, I do care about getting sued and to that end carry the maximum limits. My wife is required, by her work, to carry an umbrella on her motorcycle and car policies.
Something about those numbers, and I am not taking you to task, does not look right. The 1125R should be much lower than that.
Insuring a 25 year old on a CBR1000 or R6 ranks, in my book, about 3 notches behind throwing money on a crap table in Vegas . . . I think I've just seen too much.
Court |
Malott442
| | Posted on Monday, March 23, 2009 - 03:14 am: |
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I hear you there, I really expected the rates to be much lower myself. I just couldn't believe it.....
I used to have high deductibles until I got slammed by a hit and run driver. The 1k deductible wasn't fun at all considering I didn't have a spare grand just laying around when I was 22 and in the Navy......
Maybe I can rethink that aspect..... I double checked the rates, using a FL zip code (where I grew up) as reference and found the 1125r is the same price to insure as a new cbr1000rr.... the cr was much cheaper though..... like 3800 vs. 2800....
The craps table is spot on. Until the US decides to adapt a graduated license program, those things that we all see will stay far too common. And I can't wait to break 30 and trick my old lady into marrying me....... I checked those rates = NICE! |
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