| Author | Message | ||
     Jaimec |
Don't forget EBR is part of Hero, and Hero is pretty much the BIGGEST motorcycle manufacturer in the world in terms of units sold. I don't think you can play that "EBR is the little guy" card any more. And note that BMW is one of the biggest manufacturers of all of them, and look how far down they're running (although those are privateer efforts; the BMW Factory pulled out of all two-wheeled road racing a couple of years back). | ||
| D_adams |
Well, they could always put a supercharger on it. Kawasaki just did it, why not EBR? They had the Diablo setup way back when with the turbo from the factory, doing a supercharger isn't much of a stretch. | ||
| M1combat |
@Neutrum - "don't read them" 1 - FU... my post was just a helpful reminder to Cmgaviao. People make mistakes by coming here maybe not knowing the race was already run. 2 - Not posting spoilers is just common courtesy. I had already watched the race so it didn't affect me at all... It's just that it's disrespectful to anyone who comes here to post spoilers within an hour or so of a race. At least wait until Monday or at least make the comment vague enough that people who watched will know what you're saying and people who haven't will not. Sure... you can argue that people shouldn't come to a Buell Racing section of the forum after a recent race if they don't already know the results but people make mistakes. How about we try to help one another and try to help them avoid having a race spoiled? Or... Just keep walking through life not giving a flying F about how you affect other people... Makes no difference to me. I've learned over the years that there are too many people like you out there so I make a point not to visit any areas that may have race results for series I'm interested in until I know the results. Thanks for making the world a better place??? Nope. | ||
| Snacktoast |
Jamiec, A technicality, but a big one... EBR is not part of Hero. Hero is a minority stakeholder in EBR. | ||
| Snacktoast |
M1, Don't worry, he wont be back again until he has something negative that he can pounce all over about EBR and their racing endeavors.  | ||
| Ebmachine |
I think Vagelis46 has it right. "EBR needs WSBK...and WSBK needs EBR ..... EBR needs time...and maybe another engine, But that is another story .... Lets wait for a few more rounds at more flowing and slower tracks like Jerez, Portimao, Assen , Laguna ...... and then we have a better image Never give up !" We want EBR to succeed. Those of us that have ridden Buell motorcycles and are inspired by what we have experienced are really wanting EBR to wake the world up to American ingenuity and the thrill of thinking outside the box. Don't throw EBR under the bus just yet... I know many are disappointed. The key here is what comes next. The greatest stories of all time revolve around those that have been knocked down, gotten up, and come back to dominate. That is why I follow EBR. They are underdogs. They chose to be different. They got my attention after I rode a mildly modified 1125R on a twisty road. The day EBR throws in the towel, I will be disappointed. The day they roll up their sleeves and think outside the box, I will continue to be a fan and cheer them on! | ||
| Neutrum |
"to race with the engine that is built "in house" it isn't: it's a rotax engineered engine. it has always been and will always be. no matter how different they label it. buell/ebr was never able to engineer an engine of their own. they always took an existing engine (hd/rotax) and tuned it up. m1combat: fu very much too! "Hero is a minority stakeholder in EBR" ...who just bought the whole production of rx to make sure that they can qualify to compete in wsbk... poor canepa, he really dragged himself into this career-killer-mission. | ||
| M2typhoon |
^This guy needs an enema.... And Snacktoast was right. | ||
| Court |
There is a great deal of inaccurate information here about The motor EBR Hero | ||
| Jaimec |
Superchargers are not legal in any form of motorcycle roadracing with the exception of drag racing and perhaps Bonneville (which technically isn't a "road"). (Message edited by jaimec on March 23, 2015) | ||
| Classax |
I'm really sick of people saying the Buell/EBR use a Rotax power plant. Rotax is a brand name alla Kleenex. While every Kleenex is a tissue, every tissue is NOT a Kleenex. It was wrong of journalist to state the Helicon was Rotax product because it wasn't, isn't an won't be. BRP is the company Buell tasked with engineering to their( BUELL's) specification the powerplant we know as the Helicon. Because of budget constraints the financing was structure similar to a JV since Harely did n't was to spring for the development out right having just commandeered and wrecking VROD engine for sportbikes through Porche In the early days some assembly was done in the Rotax facility but almost none of the PARTS were made by them. Today EBR owns design, and none of the parts are ROTAX. It is not a Rotax engine though yes its shares the some of their best design philosophies since it was co developed by the same parent company. As for the DNF's and DNS until we know what the failures were its hard to come to any meaningful conclusion. We already know they're down on power to the tune of 20-30hp. We also know they are down on top RPM by 2.5K-4.5K in favor of an engine that delivers unmatched torque across the widest power band. Does it suck? Yes but the reality is none of us as yet know why. who just bought the whole production of rx to make sure that so they can qualify to compete in wsbk Please provide proof of the above. poor canepa, he really dragged himself into this career-killer-mission You're obviously not connected to anyone who actually races in WSBK because the spin I'm getting from various teams is its being viewed more of a situation of Canepa being talented enough to make head way on a subpar machine. Hurts to say that but the truth is that's how it's being viewed right now. As predicted when I first heard he would be with Kawi, Jonny REA is the man to beat. It will only get harder for the field as they get to tracks he actually LIKES. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
""buell/ebr was never able to engineer an engine of their own. they always took an existing engine (hd/rotax) and tuned it up. "" That is a valid point...... Personally I do not care who manufactures the EBR engine...I would like Erik Buell to buy a proven WSBK performance level engine , prefferably a Jap engine , put it in his chassis and then go racing...... That will solve many problems for the EBR racing effords..... If that engine is also used for the EBR range of bikes that are sold to the public that would be even greater ....... Any way you see it ... a Jap engine is more sorted that the R0tax_EBR_I_do_notCare_who_makes_it engine... Back to the WSBK.....Bimota - KTM - Triumph preffer to stay away from the WSBK level or racing... EBR have chosen to race.... MV Agusta have chosen to race ... | ||
| Neutrum |
classax, it will be the same as with geoff may. during the tests in jerez and pi some of you guys were implicating that he and aaron were pussies compared to what canepa was doing. geoff may finished 3rd at daytona200 just recently... and the mediacoverage of wsbk here in spain is by far more intense than in the usa i would say...so the careerkiller-argument is coming from insiders. and hero buying the rx stock and place it in the showrooms of the dealers in the us and europe - that was written here and in the ebr forum a few pages earlier to my question about sales-numbers. because there are just no salesnumbers. | ||
| Wymaen |
and hero buying the rx stock and place it in the showrooms of the dealers in the us and europe - that was written here and in the ebr forum a few pages earlier to my question about sales-numbers. If you're referring to the initial $25M investment by Hero, well, yeah, I guess so. If not, I can only say:  | ||
| Neutrum |
and the helicon was developed with rotax austria... http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buell_1125R | ||
| Classax |
Oh for the the love of accuracy. No one said May and Yates were not quick. They are! However even they themselves would tell you they are not "aliens" on the level of say a Sykes or a Rea or even a "Shakey" Burns. It became clear through out the year that there were major missteps in understanding the nature of the bike by the Italian team. The guys did there best and both literally gave up their blood in the form of serious injury in their efforts. Nothing but respect to both Aaron and Geoff but they simply are not on the same level of pace as the top 5 riders in WSBK and there is NO shame in saying that. The Helicon was conceived and designed to Buell specifications and was never branded a Rotax product. Having BRP retain the licensing was simply a was to reduce the development cost to get it to market. As for sales, no the RX and to less an extent SX are not selling as well as anyone would like to see. That said, clearly Neutrum doesn't understand how it works. Dealers actually finance the bikes in (affect buy) the stock that sits on the floor in their showrooms. After(if) that stock is sold they order more. This is why sales reports are generated from the factory invoices not from dealers out the door. The Aussies appear to love them by the way. If you really want sales numbers call the factory, or industry sales reports, don't troll the internet for anecdotes. If EBR has been allowed to race under the same homologation numbers as Bimota I think the sales numbers would have been much better as a ratio. Particularly since EBR is smaller than MV and only slightly bigger than Bimota. I get the same race coverage as the rest of the world and I have personal friends who actually work for FIM WSbk. At the end of the day EBR is not performing as anywhere near as well as anyone would like. Anything more said beyond than that is speculation and likely to be WRONG. | ||
| Jaimec |
And to clarify further, Rotax happens to be part of BRP. "Rotax is the same as Kleenex?" Where did THAT come from? Although I've often heard ALL tissues called "Kleenexes," all copy machines referred to as "Xeroxes" and even all refrigerators referred to as "Frigidaires," I've yet to hear ANYONE refer to an engine as a "Rotax" unless it was actually BUILT by Rotax. | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Dean Adams said: "things get equaled out pretty fast, see how Cory West did the other day. Run them on production bikes like what you'd get out of the showroom, it would probably be a completely different outcome" Agreed Dean but that will probably never happen in the world venues as well as the new Moto America series. Now with that said, you and many others are making the absolute best choice in having the best street Superbike available anywhere at a really fair price or at any cost probably. Cory beat all comers in China from a field of over 40 with many having factory support, and evidently showroom stock except for racing safety equipment. Amazing! Get an EBR and never have to look back! Bob | ||
| Hughlysses |
Neutrum:  | ||
| Neutrum |
i'm just reading on speedweek, that they couldn't start to race 2 because of missing spare-parts. that is much better than last year with the bardi team, i must say... that's not negative waves hughlysses, that's the reality you don't wanna hear... http://www.speedweek.com/sbk/news/72258/Thailand-F uer-Canepa-das-erste-Desaster-mit-Buell.html | ||
| Jaimec |
Hey, I'm a fan of the New York Mets. I'm used to this sort of thing. | ||
| Fast1075 |
I think the issue is simple. Having your ass kicked by a steroid pumped badass is one thing. Tripping over your own shoelaces is completely different. In closed course road racing for "Production" bikes, SBK is the top step, only eclipsed by the "prototype" bikes in Moto GP. Discounting of course specialty races like IOM and Macau, which are really not the same thing. Many years ago, all mighty Honda went racing. Got it's ass kicked. Went home, regrouped, came back and destroyed all comers. But they didn't do it with the same stuff they got their ass kicked on. As this piss n moan over technical differences is silly. If a motor won't make enough power to run with the competition, and destroy itself in the process, well, rethink is required. The difference between the little engine that tried, and the laughing stock can be slim. Cory won in china. Great guy on a great bike running in the proper classification, and not over stressing the motor to the breaking point. There is a point to that. In an Amsoil commercial Erik himself alluded the main bearing problems with the motor, that were fixed by using Amsoil. Get a clue, the motor is way overstressed in SBK, just like it was at Daytona. Rob Weaver's bike puked at Daytona, but has had a long and successful race history in "normal" club racing that he enjoys. Different circumstances, different outcomes. Maybe back away from the world stage until a new motor can be developed, or the existing one revamped and improved. The mighty small block chevy was not a world beater until it was developed either. Run Superstock and it's equivalent now, and work on the SBK stuff in typical double top secret fashion until it, like Honda is ready to rise from defeat to conquer all comers. | ||
| Neutrum |
Run Superstock and it's equivalent... AMEN! | ||
| Classax |
"And to clarify further, Rotax happens to be part of BRP. "Rotax is the same as Kleenex?" Where did THAT come from? Although I've often heard ALL tissues called "Kleenexes," all copy machines referred to as "Xeroxes" and even all refrigerators referred to as "Frigidaires," I've yet to hear ANYONE refer to an engine as a "Rotax" unless it was actually BUILT by Rotax." Exactly! Which is why I get ticked when people do it, especially "journalist" who should know better.  I originally come out of out the Aviation industry where ROTAX is a very well known brand. Branding, Design, and Manufacture are all exclusive of one another. Rotax/Kleenex/ Xerox/Chevy are all brands. The design of any of their products can be outsourced to any firm, and based on cost, and IP rights agreement negotiations, the rights(licenses) to that design could wind up anywhere. The manufacture of said items could also equally be done anywhere and still be slapped with the applicable BRAND NAME or in the case of the Helicon NOT. The design was to Buells's design spec in joint venture with BRP which is more than just ROTAX(in much the same way GM is more than just Chevy) with the licensing remaining with BRP to cut cost to HD/Buell at the time. The Helicon isn't a ROTAX any more than a Cadillac is Chevy. Similar or even common parts? Yes. Maybe some of the same engineers, yes, BUT totally different products, and brands. What ever you want to call it, it isn't performing as well as we'd hope in WSBk .... YET!  | ||
| Rodrob |
Rob Weaver's bike puked at Daytona, but has had a long and successful race history in "normal" club racing that he enjoys. Different circumstances, different outcomes. Wow... I guess I need to speak with this Rob Weaver guy. | ||
| Riohondohank |
"Rob Weaver's bike puked at Daytona, but has had a long and successful race history in "normal" club racing that he enjoys. Different circumstances, different outcomes." Amen to that. I can attest to that from my own experience back in the day when Cory West's dad was riding my BMW and Moto Guzzi. Daytona had a way of finding weaknesses that were not apparent at other race tracks. | ||
| Fast1075 |
Hiyah Rob! How yah been? If my old memory serves me, it was a sad day. Sucked the exhaust valves? I know the motor would only rotate about 70 degrees. And I know you are still racing. I have seen the videos!  (Message edited by fast1075 on March 23, 2015) | ||
| Classax |
I think we in our fervor to do well in WSBl we tend to miss the point that EBR didn't build a homolgation special just to go racing that they do not offer to the street. The RS is that bike at under 50K where as Aprillia, Kawi,and Ducati machines are all far more "specialized". As I have said, Aprilia's V4 in the EBR Chassis is a bike I buy all day long. Its one I think could WIN in WSBK because they simply can't make a classic vtwin rev high enough long enough to compete with any configuration of 4 on any track where top end speed has a major impact. The 1199 does it by pretending to be a 4. But for a street bike that does club racing and trackdays- the RX is stupid quick and holds its own. WSBk may prove that's the best it will ever be, but that's not particularly bad. To catch Jonny Rea they need about 30 more hp and a closer relationship with the Almighty, because that boy is insanely quick. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Here's what Nic posted to Facebook this morning. Original Italian plus a short English posting followed by a Facebook translation doctored into a semi-readable quote (by me):
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| Court |
There were a team of Buell engineers and product development folks who, essentially, lived in Austria during the design, engineering and development of the motor. There were a number of quite unique elements that were subject to a 10 year moratorium, during which time BRP/Rotax could not transfer to the Buell specific technology to other motors. It was a good deal for everyone. Buell Engineers learned from the Austrian team and the Austrian team learned from the East Troy Elves. |
