| Author | Message | ||
     Trojan |
Much has been made about the difference in the EBR entries' performance between AMA SBK and WSBK competition. The point of the question was to find if there really is any significant difference. If WSBK CEV machinery equates rougly to AMA SBK then comparing the EBR's performance relative to the two similar classes is perfectly logical. And there may in fact be not so much of a performance difference given the validity of that logic. There is no CEV, there is EVO or Superbike (CEV is the Spanish national race series). However, whichever way you look at it you need to compare apples to apples, so can't usefully compare performance data between superbike spec and EVO spec machines as it serves no useful purpose. They may race together but they are two separate classes. If EBR had entered as an EVO class then of course you can use the EVO class runners as a comparison, but they didn't  They entered as a full factory superbike team so you need to use the other superbike entries as your data point, not the lower spec EVO class. It would be like comparing the Miami Dolphins to Florida State (or whatever they are called). Two teams playing the same game at different levels. Even comparing EVO class runners to AMA (or BSB/CEV/IDM etc) is fruitless because there are differences in tyres,tracks and tuning regs between them that render comparisons pointless. You can only compare against what is racing in your class right now. | ||
| Classax |
Right now there is very little difference from an engine perspective between the AMA and SBK EBRs. The SBK is heavier due to the extra fuel and associated tank required. From what I understand Pegram is using a SIMILAR MM ecu package to SWB without all the bells and whistles turned on. West is using the same ECU they ship with evey bike but a modified map for the race exhasut. Gearing is the same as well. SBKs are using approved SBK suspension and RX swing arm. I would says its not an apples to apples comparison either, as the AMA bike is even closer to what is on the sales floors (RS) than the WSB overall. Logically the WSBK's with better fuel, longer tracks, stickier rubber and longer straights and "better"  electronics packages should be faster but they have not only been WAY slower, they haven't held together nearly as well. Clearly something fundamentally wrong in their effort over there. Meanwhile in the AMA they really need a rider who can run at the front. All respect to all the guys, but Corey and Larry simply aren't in the same class as Hayden and Hayes and if he can learn to keep a liter bike on two wheels and on the track, none of them is as quick as Cameron. I so wish Eslik was still with the team. That guy knows how to ride and rides the EBR exceptionally well. | ||
| Firstbuell |
oh, man - I, too pine for Danny's return to Helicon City | ||
| Bads1 |
Danny is a great rider. But hes great in Daytona sportbike. He hasn't put it together on Superbike. He never really beating his team mate May. And he never beat Hayden when on Jordans team. He was usually off pace. Enough that if Jordan didn't pull the plug Danny wouldn't of returned anyways | ||
| Riohondohank |
Cory is actually now using two different ECU's on his bikes. Number 1 bike has Morelli and back up bike uses stock RX ECU. He seems to be about 1/2 sec a lap faster on number 1 but due to some engine issues he rode number 2 in both races. | ||
| Classax |
^Thanks for the clarification. | ||
| Riohondohank |
As you can imagine this makes it difficult for him to get a good handle on how each bike responds with the limited practice time at the races when jumping from one bike to the other. I believe he would do much better if he had more consistency by having both bikes the same at the races. | ||
| Firstbuell |
fun fact - Larry Pegram used his EBR 1190RS for Moto2 Dunlop tire testing at Indy | ||
| Trojan |
Meanwhile in the AMA they really need a rider who can run at the front. forget about Hayden, Hayes etc, they need to get hold of some young up and coming guys like Gagne, Gerlof, Beaubier, jacobson, Beach, or even Herrin (although I doubt you could entice PJ or Josh back, or convince the others to spend much longer in AMA racing). There are some other young guys worth a look at but the team needs to build around someone who is going to be the next big thing, not the last big thing  | ||
| Blake |
Right, EVO. Point remains valid. In comparing the EBR performance in WSBK to that in AMA SBK, the measure with the best parity is the EVO class. So I ask again, when they are running, how far back of the lead EVO bikes are they in lap times? | ||
| Rsh |
Misano race 1, first EVO bike, Kaw ZX 10R Position 11th, 42.062 seconds behind the leader after 21 laps. Rider: David Salom Qualifying time 1'36.843 Speed 257.0 Misano race 2, first EVO bike, Kaw ZX 10R Position 10th, 42.156 seconds behind the leader after 21 laps. Rider: David Salom For comparison Rider: Aaron Yates, EBR Qualifying time 1'40.424 Speed 247.7 Leader Rider: Tom Sykes, Kawasaki Qualifying time 1'34.883 Speed 266.5 WSBK Best Evo bike, 2 seconds a lap off the leader pace EBR bike, 5 seconds a lap off the leader pace | ||
| Classax |
They clearly are not running well over in WSBK. Once they are on a track we can see them on track we have seen the EBR's on before we will know whether the the WSBK's are in regard to the AMA machines that have also run the same track. My guess is right now Corey West is the fastest EBR guy in the world right now. | ||
| Rsh |
Laguna Seca should be very interesting. WSBK and AMA EBR's in the same place with both pairs of riders knowing the track. If they can't get a decent result at Laguna, I think whatever is left of the teams confidence will be gone. | ||
| Riohondohank |
I agree with Tim, but of course everyone here knows I am biased. Laguna will be interesting and maybe will give us a relative measure, but there are a lot of variables involved. I hope that all 4 EBR riders can get though the weekend without mechanical issues. | ||
| Trojan |
Laguna will be interesting and maybe will give us a relative measure It will be interesting to compare lap times between the WSb and AMA spec EBR bikes, although it would be even more interesting to compare them on the sametrack, same tyres and with the same riders. Other wise there will always be differences that could be due to a number of factors. I wonder if they will have a chance to test both specification machines back to back in the days after the WSB race at Laguna? | ||
| Classax |
It will be interesting to compare lap times between the WSb and AMA spec EBR bikes, although it would be even more interesting to compare them on the sametrack, same tyres and with the same riders. Other wise there will always be differences that could be due to a number of factors. Back when all three Yate, May and West were in the AMA all riding the EBR, May was typically 2 seconds a lap faster than Yates, and West was marginally slower than Yates. If the WSBK teams come into Laguna with trap speeds still so much slower than their AMA counterparts, Corey will likely outpace them around the track. My not so secret hope is that by the time they get to Laguna the WSB team will have ironed out some of the major problems and make super pole for the first time. That would be tantamount to a podium finish for them right now. By which time hopefully Pegram can find some pace and out run Filmore and a GSXR for a podium as well. | ||
| Riohondohank |
Remember though that the last time at Laguna, Cory ran down Yates and passed him in the race on a bike that had no traction control other than his wrist while Yates had a Merelli ECU. Of course I am biased but I believe that on equal equipment Cory can easily best Yates. As for May it remains to be seen. | ||
| Riohondohank |
Also it was finally at Laguna that Cory came to grips with his suspension when the EBR factory guy took over his settings, to be blunt the RSR suspension guy was a disaster. Cory made tremendous improvement though that weekend. | ||
| Classax |
"I believe that on equal equipment Cory can easily best Yates. As for May it remains to be seen." Like I said, my guess is West is likely the quickest EBR right now. If they can get the WSBKs sorted that should NOT be the case but we shall see soon enough. One thing that continues to surprise me is the sensitivity to suspsension adjustments the RX has, a turn there or half a turn here can instantly be felt. (Message edited by Classax on June 26, 2014) | ||
| M2typhoon |
Cory, wildcard WSBK entry at Laguna. DO IT!!! | ||
| Sparky |
One neat thing about Laguna is that there is a radar gun display showing MPH on the bridge by Turn 1. That will give onlookers an instant clue of the relative speeds of the bikes. | ||
| Riohondohank |
"Cory, wildcard WSBK entry at Laguna. DO IT!!!" I doubt it will happen because he wants to put all his effort into doing as well as he can in the AMA and finish as high as possible in the points. Pegram on the other hand has nothing to lose at this point so that may be a possibility. | ||
| Classax |
Larry is one heck of a guy, far quicker than I will ever imagine I could be, none the less his time and pace have past. | ||
| Riohondohank |
As I predicted, but in fact already knew. http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/pegram-to-race -foremost-insurancepegram-racing-ebr-as-world-supe rbike-wild-card-at-mazda-raceway-laguna-seca/ | ||
| Firstbuell |
while we're on a Worm turn: "Superbike Family" season 3 now online ".....The show highlights Larry’s dream of becoming a Superbike racer and how his family supports him. It’s not only entertaining, but sheds light on just what it takes to make a team like this run....." http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/larry-pegrams- reality-cable-tv-show-superbike-family-season-thre e-is-now-available-for-viewing-online/ I've just 2 words - episode 4 [nicely buff Heather modeling a 2-piece] | ||
| M2typhoon |
Chris Ulrich will be wild carding as well! http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/chris-ulrich-t o-race-geico-honda-as-wild-card-in-world-superbike -at-mazda-raceway-laguna-seca/ | ||
| Classax |
To be honest I wish Corey were in a position to do both. He's quicker than Larry and perhaps even Yates. Seems like Geoff has lost a step or three after the big wreck, so I would like to seem them shoot it out for top EBR rider on the same track. | ||
| Jscott |
I'd like to see Danny do a one-off for EBR! | ||
| M2typhoon |
http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/dont-expect-an y-tv-or-internet-video-coverage-of-ama-pro-races-r unning-during-the-laguna-seca-world-superbike-even t-this-coming-weekend/ Oh.. yeah this is awesome news...  | ||
| Trojan |
would the last person to leave AMA racing please turn out the lights |
