| Author | Message | ||
     Trojan |
Give them the same time folks gave BMW. They had some pretty crappy finishes their first year, and they had a championship caliber rider who was familiar with the tracks. EBR will get there. The big difference between the BMW and EBR in their first year is that BMW were immediately fast and running towards the front of the pack. They didn't get the results they wanted becaue of their insistence on running their in house electronic package, but they had promise from the start. Everyone knew it was only the elctronics that was letting them down and they were public in their admission of it. They also threw huge amounts of money at the project, with new parts appearing at almost every session. In contrast, the EBr team appears (and it may be just an appearance) to be running on a shoestring budget compared to most factory teams despite Hero sponsorship. No new parts evidence at the last test and little evidence of an improvement in speed or lap times yet. I have to agree with Rocket that it is a very risky stategy to race in WSB with a bike that is so uncompetitive at the moment, so hopefully they can have a Eureka moment pretty soon and start climbing the grid. | ||
| Tpoppa |
I listened to the Erik interview. On one hand I can applaud EBR for not shying away from the level of competition in WSBK. I understand the Hero logo will get exponentially more exposure in WSBK that it would in front of the declining AMA fan base. But, I believe the results to this point have hurt and not helped the EBR reputation in the eyes of WSBK fans. The results will eventually improve. It's difficult to say how much or how soon, but they will improve. Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor. | ||
| Trojan |
I understand the Hero logo will get exponentially more exposure in WSBK that it would in front of the declining AMA fan base. That is a debatable point. So far the bikes have had zero coverage on TV because they are so far back. TV tends to concentrate cover on the leaders and 'tight groups' racing for position, so the only time the EBR bikes have even been in shot this season is only momentarily when being lapped by the leaders. I haven't even seen them on the grid yet during the TV race build up. Is that the kind of exposure that Hero want? Conversely in the AMA they are racing in a much smaller pond and running in the top 5, so although the audience is smaller they are at least at the right end of the race for the audience to see. It may be a smaller audience but a more positive message. | ||
| Reepicheep |
If I were Hero, and selling smaller more practical bikes to a domestic Indian market and looking to expand to other countries, I would be absolutely comfortable completely writing off a number of professional snobs and pundits who are never satisfied with anything that doesn't match their narrow and elitist view of their and everyone else's supposed place in the world. I hope that Hero diesel scooter / generator is for sale in the states soon. I still want one, in spite of the fact that it still hasn't pulled a to 10 finish in a formula 1 race. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
I would be absolutely comfortable completely writing off a number of professional snobs and pundits who are never satisfied with anything that doesn't match their narrow and elitist view of their and everyone else's supposed place in the world. It's good to know you've got your feet planted firmly on the ground Bill  Rocket in England | ||
| Reepicheep |
I may be in London next month actually, so some of you Brit's may in theory have the chance to kick my ass properly and in person. Just look for the tall fat American that looks the wrong way when crossing the street.  | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Just look for the tall fat American that looks the wrong way when crossing the street. You don't want us to find you then Bill? When you in London? Rocket in England | ||
| Court |
>>>That is a debatable point. So far the bikes have had zero coverage on TV You left out that 2 of the 8 bikes on the splash pages photos last week were EBRs. | ||
| Trojan |
Which 'splash' pages are we talking about? If you mean gthe WSb web site then all the press releases from teams are rotated around the front page. I was talking about TV coverage, of which EBR have had pretty much zero apart from the odd negative comment. They didn't even mention when Mayy didn't make the grid for race one last time out. I would be absolutely comfortable completely writing off a number of professional snobs and pundits who are never satisfied with anything that doesn't match their narrow and elitist view of their and everyone else's supposed place in the world. So everyone watching WSb is a professional snob and pundit? NOBODY gets to see EBR or Hero att he moment on TV so I very much doubt that any sponsor would be 'absolutely comfortable' with that. In my experience sponsors expect to get something in return for their investment in the sport, be that results or exposure (or both). So far Hero have had neither in WSb and get much more exposure from Cricket. | ||
| Blake |
Heroes sometimes start out as underdogs. There's nothing much more satisfying than to be a beat up and bloodied underdog who doggedly overcomes adversity to achieve victory. Think about that. It sure has a completely different spin than being accused of running a cheater bike. Still wondering about the race team management though. | ||
| Elvis |
There are thousands of questions that need to be answered. Not just about suspensions, gearing, fueling, engine components, traction control sttings etc. but also the capabilities of the team-management, team members and riders. People in decision making positions at all levels are evaluating all those things based on real, detailed information while people on these boards pretend to evaluate them based on what they see on the TV every few weeks. Bottom line: Those in decision making positions can do as they did and start that huge evaluation process this season or wait and begin that evaluation process in 2015, 2016 or beyond. And it's easy to say "Hero's big, they should just pay whatever it takes" just like it was easy to say the same thing about Harley back in the day. . . . but companies like Hero and Harley didn't get to where they were by frivolously throwing money around. I'm enjoying the heck out of every step in the process, and I think anybody who isn't should just step back, take a deep breath, look at the big picture and enjoy it for what it is . . . as opposed to what you'd like it to be. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Why would throwing money around be frivolous? Fact is, Buell, and now EBR, have been underdogs for 20 years. When you go into WSBK you should not do so in the most minimal way, which is what seems to be the case here. I'm pretty sure if EBR had the funds they'd find the power and the personnel. They'd still be the underdogs, but at least underdogs with a chance. Rocket in England | ||
| Gregtonn |
...guesswork, but if... I think... ...on this occasion I guess... ...probably have... ...I can only assume... ...and if so... It's entirely possible... ...it may be... I'm pretty sure... Just a few phrases from the last couple of pages but it pretty well sums up what some people know about the EBR race effort. G | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Just a few phrases from the last couple of pages but it pretty well sums up what some people know about the EBR race effort Including those involved of course  Rocket in England | ||
| Gregtonn |
Its only guesswork but I think on this occasion I guess I would probably have to say I can only assume It's entirely possible and if so it may be I'm pretty sure.  G | ||
| Gregtonn |
Or not.  G | ||
| Crush63 |
This thread is like therapy allowing Buell/EBR fans to vent their frustration at the teams lack of progress. I doubt anyone seriously thought they'd be running up front year one but the bike is so far behind it's sad. I mean last race the EBR was outperformed by a dozen 600's ! I truly hope that somewhere someone is developing some race cams and other engine upgrades to put them on par with at least the Evo bikes. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Or not. Are you sure? Rocket in England | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
This thread is like therapy allowing Buell/EBR fans to vent their frustration at the teams lack of progress. I doubt anyone seriously thought they'd be running up front year one but the bike is so far behind it's sad. I mean last race the EBR was outperformed by a dozen 600's ! Bang on Rocket in England | ||
| Gregtonn |
Are you sure? To the extent that those posts make sense? Absolutely. G | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
To the extent that those posts make sense? I'm not so sure anymore. Which posts exactly? Rocket in England | ||
| Trojan |
Just a few phrases from the last couple of pages but it pretty well sums up what some people know about the EBR race effort. What we KNOW is that they have been consistently the slowest WSB bikes in a straight line across the field at every round so far, and have failed to start or finish half of the races. That fact alone should be making people at the team and EBR sit up and take stock, and work 24 hours a day to find a solution surely? yet there appears to be no sense of urgency in testing or on a race weekend amongst the team, almost as if they know they are performing at their maximum already? I hope I am wrong and that a miraculous solution is forthcoming soon. | ||
| Court |
>>>yet there appears That's where you stopped "knowing" and started, again, guessing and wildly speculating. Likely poorly. | ||
| Trojan |
That's where you stopped "knowing" and started, again, guessing and wildly speculating. Likely poorly. Nobody is telling us otherwise so far are they? What are they doing to bridge the gap to the other factory bikes? New engine....no news? The parts they have changed so far such as forks and swingarm are not going to make up the huge speed deficit they currently have. I have seen no evidence so far that there is anyone working hard in the team to address that paricular problem, and that is what I base my assumption on. I hope that I am likely wrong, but so far the evidence suggest otherwise. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
That's where you stopped "knowing" and started, again, guessing and wildly speculating. Likely poorly. Oh c'mon Court, you keep telling you know nothing either. You're reply to Matt is therefore subject to your own words given Matt has a wealth of knowledge and experience to support his observations which because of are likely (there's that word again) anything but poorly thought. There is a way to prevent this unknowing nonsense, but as it's a pattern of at least fifteen years duration, it's unlikely Buell or EBR will do anything other than continue to keep their cards close to their chest and their faithful customers in the dark guessing. Whilst there are obvious necessities to keeping information secret as all automotive manufacturers do, Erik is a champion of this secrecy surrounding anything to do with his motorcycle involvement. What harm could it do for EBR to publicise at least some more in depth information as to how they are planning on continuing their advancement in WSBK racing? Such information would stop the nonsense to some degree here and elsewhere. It should also have a more positive effect on the outsider view of EBR's presence and effort in WSBK rather than the laughing stock I hear they are in some circles. Unless of course, as Matt says, there really is nothing much going on and there is nothing to report. Rocket in England | ||
| Rex |
We all want them to do good. EBR/ Buell Fans in particular. I keep looking to see if they are creeping up on the manufacturers list. Not really able to see them on TV is a bummer. At least the thousands of attendees in europe are seeing the HERO bikes in practice and in some track racing.... Keep the chin up.........Put the three hayden brothers on them.......ahahah. Flat track one season, road race the next, and do bonneville in between. | ||
| Blake |
Sean, It's no secret that advertising positive expectations or plans has only a downside, when something doesn't workout as planned and the expectations fail to be met. In the world of marketing, it is far more shrewd, wise, and profitable to promise less and deliver more compared to promising much and delivering little. All this will only make for storied heroic underdog perseverance and a come from miles back wild success story. But if the plans for success are advertised, it will all be expected. Anyone who knows Erik, knows that he's not at all happy with the state of the Hero/EBR WSBK effort. But we also know that he will persevere and achieve success. The name of the company is EBR for Erik Buell Racing! The impatience is tough to endure, but have some bloody faith in the man. Look what he's achieved in such a short time from being gutted by Harley-Davidson Incorporated. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
I do have faith in the man - as a motorcycle manufacturer. In this respect he is an unstoppable force with a tenacity to succeed like no other. He gets top level motorcycles into production like no other person or company I can ever think of. When it comes to racing it's a different matter. Despite his unwavering attitude to competing he never quite seems to succeed beyond the odd domestic stuff with not a lot of kudos on the world stage. Then we hear of Nortons effort and one can't help but feel they will take the glory for their efforts, likely even if they DNF. This makes EBR's effort in WSBK all the more galling to accept. This already on top of a very wealthy company sponsoring EBR's effort when Norton are doing it for themselves. I can't wait until EBR do start to show well, but it's bloody hard to support an effort that's in the boondocks constantly and can't seem to get out of them. Rocket in England | ||
| M2typhoon |
I really started to think about this whole WSBK thing and the repercussions of it. The underdog theory is true but, I remember a car guy that came from nowhere and beat the Italians at Lemans over and over again. One of the biggest underdog stories of all time. If you compare that to the EBR on-going saga, this has the potential to be bigger than that IMHO. A guy starts a company after being shut down and enters WSBK 4 years later and is mass producing bikes for the public. If this pans out, I'd like to say Erik will give Mr. Shelby a run for legend status if an EBR can win a race in the next couple years. | ||
| Trojan |
If you compare that to the EBR on-going saga, this has the potential to be bigger than that IMHO. There is very little to compare between the two. The underdog theory is great PROVIDING that the team then makes rapid progress and becomes the Cinderella team that came from nowhere to win. However history is littered with other racing stories where they come from nowhere and remain nowhere until they stop racing. So far the EBR team has had plenty of time this year to show us that they are improving or even testing new parts that will make a big difference to their performance. The problem is that when you examine the lap times, top speeds, sector times and whatever MEASURABLE data that is available, coupled with what can be seen (or not seen) when the race and test, it seems that they are not yet making any progress. The bikes are no faster than they were at the first round, the lap times are no closer to the front, the finishing positions are pretty much the same and the reliability record is pretty poor so far. This weekend will be a massive test for EBR. If they have managed to find something at the last test then this is when it will show (or not). Donington should in theory suit a good handling bike and isn't necessarily a high power circuit. If they can't improve the situation here than maye they need a rethink. The crunch time will come when they reach Laguna. No more excuses about lack of track knowledge etc there, so they should at least get into Superpole surely? |
